11th May 2018
Labor Leader Bill Shorten responds to Federal Budget 2018
Author: Kaye Fallick
Labor Leader Bill Shorten responds to Federal Budget 2018

“We can do better than this,” said Labor Opposition Leader Bill Shorten when he rose in the House to respond to the Turnbull Government’s Federal Budget 2018.

Mr Shorten went on to say that the Prime Minister is out of touch, by making cuts to education, health, pensioners and raising the retirement age to 70, while supporting a $17 billion ‘giveaway’ to big banks.

Labor, the Opposition Leader maintains, has a plan to “bring the fair go back into the heart of our nation”.

“It’s a plan we can afford by not spending $80 billion on big business and big banks so we can look after the real forgotten people: working families, pensioners and all Australians doing it tough because of flat wages, rising power bills and increasing health costs.”

He then went on to state that a Labor Government would do “better” on tax cuts for middle Australians, with 10 million workers to pay less income tax each year. In effect, they would be on average $928 better off a year. He contrasted the Labor tax cuts with those promised by Treasurer Scott Morrison on Tuesday night which, Mr Shorten claims, will see $6 out of every $10 going to the wealthiest 20 per cent of Australians.

Other aspects of Mr Shorten’s reply included what he called a real wages policy, with a restoration of Sunday penalty rates and a focus on abuse of labour hire practices, pay equity for women, tax cuts for small business, plus a better NBN and new health imaging for regional Australia.

 


He also emphasised the need to pay down our national debt, faster, as it has doubled under the current Government, reaching $21,000 for every man, woman and child, and will cost $18 billion in interest in 2019.

Labor will also create a federal Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), which Mr Shorten described as a national integrity commission. He called the planned Budget cut to Australian and Investments Commission (ASIC) funding a disgrace, given the “pathology of exploitation” revealed in the Banking Royal Commission. A Labor Government will give $25 million to the public prosecutor to follow through on the work of the royal commission.

School funding is also high on the Labor agenda, with a reversal of cuts Mr Shorten claims the Coalition Government has made to schools and reversing the freeze on university funding, which represents 10,000 fewer places next year. Training was also emphasised with less reliance on skilled visa workers, and 100,000 fee-free TAFE places.

And finally, it was the “world’s oldest retirement age” that drew Mr Shorten’s ire, stating this would not be supported by a Labor Government, and that “giving older Australians the security and dignity they deserve is worth more than an $80 billion tax cut” to corporates.

What do you think? Is this really a fairer deal for all? Or is it a tit for tat tax cut election spend?

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    COMMENTS

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    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    9:40am
    Labor, concerned about the debt? Now that's what I needed.. to have a good laugh to start off the day LOL.
    Labor hasn't had a budget surplus since 1989. And they won't get one regardless of how high they push up taxes.
    LOL
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    10:28am
    You might like to look at the figures when Gillard was run out of town. Debt was being repaid believe it or not.
    You also failed to mention that since Abbott was put into office the national debt has MORE THAN DOUBLED....and now the bastards want to give $80 BILLION to multinationals and the wealthy. Seriously!
    Anonymous
    11th May 2018
    10:54am
    Unbelieva - Bill! What a surprise that Mick has revised history to skew the facts, in defence of his beloved lefties!Mick, you choose to ignore (conveniently), that Bill has a policy that initially wanted to screw OAP's out of franking credits, and when that wasn't going to fly, decided to go for the jugular of SFR's. What a man! Who can forget that on every difficult question asked of him at the Royal Commission, he couldn't remember. What a man! Who can forget that last year, he gave rolled gold assurances, that all his members would pass the citizenship test? What a man! Who can forget how he lambasted Barnaby Joyce - yet let's look at his own personal life - not sure that it stands up too well to close scrutiny - ask Mrs. S No.1 on that score. On every measure of honesty, integrity and believability this bloke is a fail. Mick, if you were fair dinkum, you would be pushing as hard as to get Albanese into the top spot.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:06am
    Shorten unequivocally stated that retirees would not lose $1 of dividend imputation refunds. End of argument!
    For the record we are self funded retirees and do not even get a Health Care Card.
    I will not disagree with your assessment of Shorten but one step at a time Big Al. First step is GET RID OF THE CURRENT rich man's government trying to get its dictatorship up and running.
    Kathleen
    11th May 2018
    11:12am
    No debt is bad too. Keep it down. But not gone. Do some more research Adrianus. This government is handing money to the banks instead of making them pay retribution to the people they have harmed. Instead of blindly supporting LNP do some reading by the experts who know money and budgets. The family budget is nothing like the country’sbudget.
    Growth happens when people spend and they cannot spend when they have nothing to spend. By giving money to the poorer people who spend everything the economy benefits. GST is built into products so more tax happens there too.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:15am
    I agree with your idea on growth and indeed if only the top end have all the money the economy will grind to a halt....which will result in the top demanding more tax cuts again. A sick game where everybody eventually loses.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    11:18am
    MICKY, paying the interest bill on the debt is different to paying down on the principal. LOL
    Kathleen show me how the government is handing money to the banks? LOL
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:33am
    Not talking about the interest bill....which will soar as world rates come back to more normal levels.
    The last 2 governments has more than doubled our debt with no GFC in sight. That is known as mismanagement on a national scale. Now they want to give away $80 to the rich.
    Retired Knowall
    11th May 2018
    12:00pm
    Pointless argument, BOTH PARTIES are stuck in the 2 Party battle with the ONLY Priority is to win the next election.
    There is no thought on what is good for Australia, just what is good for ALP or LNP.
    Both need to sent to the wilderness until one or both realise that Politicians are voted in to SERVE the PEOPLE not themselves.
    Both parties need to be replaced with Independents.
    Rosret
    11th May 2018
    12:02pm
    Mick, Julia sold off the last of our off shore gas supply!

    Kevin Rudd gave every tax payer a $1000 to buy a new TV where the money went directly to a foreign manufacturer when the GFC didn't actually hit us until several years later when our banks were forced to compete with global low interest rates.

    The Labor party gave everyone free insulation and how many houses burnt down and how many young apprentices were electrocuted?

    If big business (the money makers) are not stifled by heavy taxation they will stay in Australia and provide jobs for Australians.
    We don't need handouts, we need incentives to become a nation of producers and manufacturers. The money will follow.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    12:02pm
    Adrianus, how is giving a massive tax cuts to big corporations NOT handing billions to the banks? This government is not only wanting to throw money at companies that have openly declared they will NOT use it to increase employment or wages, and give the wealthy a 60% tax cut while giving the battlers less than 1%.

    I despite Shorten and I don't trust Labor. In fact, I have traditionally voted LNP more often than not, but I cannot condone the social re-engineering and, in particular, the outright abuse of our senior citizens to fund handouts to the rich.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:15pm
    Rosret - to respond:

    1. Gorgon is the third largest LNG deposit in the world. Howard let it be sold to offshore investors. My wife and I held shares in this company and this was to our superannuation. Now Australians have NO GAS and the owners of Gorgon reserve zero for us. Worse than that is Australia gets almost no royalties for the gas going to Asia as world prices have been suppressed. Tell me about gas!

    2. Rudd/Gillard giveaways. This happened when the GFC hit. I personally did not agree with the policy but Australia was the only nation where millions of workers were not unemployed overnight. I bet YOU did not lose your job. The prevailing problem as I understand it was that you could not roll out infrastructure projects quickly. Blame the Howard government for having not had this in place.

    3. The rich/big business are playing the same 'tax' game all over the world as they play nation against nation. Having the lowest rate is simply how you hand it all to the rich. What governments should be doing is collecting tax at the local rate no matter where business launders its money. And if they want to take their bat and ball and move out of the country they should be hit with a 30% minimum exit tax. Problem solved.

    I have to think you are in the troll camp giving some of the distant past you are dredging up Rosret. In fact many of the posters are clearly in the same boat and I have to wonder where the real comments are today.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    1:16pm
    Rainey, I hear what you're saying. Personally I don't mind Australia having a strong banking system. Which I may add has been weakened since 2008. Lets make the banks strong and operating within regulation guidelines. ASIC was severely weakened by Labor after they parachuted their man into the top job. During which time ASIC did nothing about the Storm issue, with the CBA lending like there was no tomorrow because the funds were being returned to them as deposits. A $2billion sole purpose fund was set up for Storm. When the regulator does nothing it can be seen as a green light. Interestingly the ASIC boss resigned 2 weeks before Turnbull announced the Banking RC? Even the Greens are asking about ASICs conflict of interest with AMP.
    Labor has a track record of creating these situations.
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    1:20pm
    Adrianus, you are 100% correct.
    Mick, why only give the half of the figures that best suits your argument, that is a page straight out of Shortens copybook.
    Lets have a look at all of the budget figures since Howard/Costello left us a giant surplus.
    Rudd/Swann 4 years, average deficit 44.375 billionn annually.
    Gillard/Swann 2 years 31.105 billion annually.
    Abbott/Hockey 2 years 38.75 billion annually.
    Turnbull/Morrison 2 years (so far) 25.7 billion annually and dropping.
    So please tell me how was debt being repaid when Gillard was in power, it would seem to me that no debt can really be repaid until we run a surplus again
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:26pm
    Adrianus - your post is not to be believed.

    ASIC is Labor's fault? The Turnbull government is sucking money out of it so how do you get that?
    ASIC has been a dead horse for decades and needs to be restructured and independent of government as it does zip other than employ people to do nothing.

    Labor put top people into the job? When Rudd won office he did a 50/50. When Abbot was put into office he did 100% liberal party stooges and cronies. Check the facts for yourself!

    Turnbull moved heaven and earth to avoid the Banking RC. Now the truth is starting to filter out, we are talking about prosecution of directors and CEO and compensation is starting to flow. Thank Labor for that. Would not have happened otherwise. No mention of that in your right wing post.
    Sceptic
    11th May 2018
    2:13pm
    The debt being repaid under the Gillard Government Mick. Sometimes you talk sense and sometimes nonsense. This is the latter. When the country is running a deficit budget it is impossible to be repaying debt as the deficit is funded by more debt.

    Reduction in spending would have helped the last two Governments reduce debt. But listen to the squeals. A populist Senate opposition majority that votes down every debt saving measure.----- of course the debt has grown. Just what would you have done to reduce the debt that would have got the support of Labor, the Greens, the independents?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    2:18pm
    Arbee, you are forgetting that obligations carry forward. Rudd/Gillard/Swan inherited massive forward obligations resulting from huge tax cuts Howard and Costello gave the 20% richest in the nation. Those tax cuts were a major cause of debt that only showed when the impact showed in financial reports. Also, Rudd/Gillard/Swan had to deal with the GFC, whereas Howard and Costello enjoyed a record boom. Turnbull and Co. have been very lucky to take the reins after the GFC and to inherit minimal unaffordable obligations from Labor. Had Labor made forward commitments of billions in tax cuts (as Howard and Costello did), this LNP would have had a far harder task. Even so, they have NOT done well when you examine the rising debt and the horrid attacks on the less well-off, excused by a ''budget emergency'' that suddenly ceased when they wanted to give unaffordable handouts to their supporters.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    2:19pm
    arbee, that's why people don't want Labor because they're no good at math. MICK thinks that if he talks in fractions and percentages it makes him look knowledgeable.
    So MICK Rudd did a 50/50 and Abbott did a 100%? OK LOL
    Sweet child of Jesus??!!! You're killing me MICK LOL!!
    Of course Turnbull would not want a Banking RC. Its a negative , non productive costly exercise which could or rather should be handled by the regulators. We need to find out who it was who misled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before jumping to conclusions.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    2:34pm
    Rainey, I would disagree with you there. Government Revenue has had a continual and steady increase for both parties. What I find a little funny is that people don't understand that Labor has absolutely no idea what they're doing. Take this Franking Credit Policy of Shorten's? His forward estimates initially included a massive windfall, when he decided to extinguish refundable amounts. I wonder if he realises that one of the reasons for the jump in ATO revenue is because of the drying up of businesses carried forward losses? Hello Bill?? Reminds me a little of the mining tax calculations he and Swan did. A claytons tax. Well here we go again. The LNP must have a lot of fun laughing at those opposite.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:04pm
    Sceptic - your post defies belief.

    Adrianus - percentages are the only real measure of tax paid. A person who pays $1000 tax on an income of $30,000 is completely difference to a person who pays the same amount of tax on an income of $200,000. This is the con the rich, who earn much of the national income, use to deceive those who are not good at maths. I do not have an issue with perspective and the maths needed to compare apples with apples.
    And then you go on to excuse WHY a PM turns a blind eye to a national fraud, supported by you.
    Last, tax receipts are up, not down. Have you not heard that we are selling records amounts of minerals again?
    Your post is deceptive Adrianus. Intentionally it appears.
    Knows-a-lot
    11th May 2018
    4:38pm
    Debt is the biggest it's ever been under the Lieberals.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    4:58pm
    And growing. If this government is put back in debt will be $80 higher on 30 June of the tax year but you never hear this from the mainstream media preaching their right wing spew.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    8:58pm
    Adrianus, I agree that the franking credit policy shows that Labor has no idea what they are doing. But sadly the change to the assets test shows the LNP have no idea either. Making it detrimental to save for retirement and advantageous to shed assets and claim a fatter pension is patently STUPID and about as irresponsible as it gets. And the idiots are still justifying their stupidity.

    Now the LNP is giving away money that it assumes we MIGHT have if wages rise and unemployment falls, but there's no indication that either are likely. In fact, quite the reverse. Oh, yes, they CLAIM they've created hundreds of thousands of new jobs. Forgot to mention hundreds of thousands joined the workforce, so unemployment has NOT fallen. And while unemployment is NOT falling and the government is ideologically opposed to wage rises, wage rises won't happen. So the budget is grossly irresponsible.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    10:38pm
    " What governments should be doing is collecting tax at the local rate no matter where business launders its money. "

    Got it in one, Mick..... 73 governments held a conference over exactly that issue in the last twelve months..... but somehow such an idea is viewed by the calcified right as 'communist'... well - that makes 73 of the developed nations communist.

    But don't anyone let that stand in the way of a good slagging.

    You ship your cash to the Caymans for zero company tax - you pay your 30% on PROFIT before it leaves these shores.

    All it takes is a few good men and women with balls and no personal self-interest.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    10:41pm
    **rolls eyes** a deficit budget is not debt... **rolls eyes again**

    Stop confusing someone's self-serving estimates for the future with dollars... it does not happen.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    10:43pm
    **rolls eyes again** revenue in isolation is meaningless - it must be associated with expenditure **rolls eyes again**.
    Adrianus
    12th May 2018
    9:35am
    Rainey, my point about Shorten's new tax on retirees is that his revenue take will be overestimated due to Franked Dividends drying up. Businesses which lost heavily during the Rudd Gillard years have just about exhausted their carry forward losses. Its a case of closing the gate after the horse has bolted. This is, in effect boosting the Turnbull Government revenue. Shorten fails to understand why we need a stronger economy even though the man on the street does?
    Employment levels are simply a case of supply and demand. A stronger economy provides more employment opportunities. More employment opportunities means higher wages. The most important asset of a business is its human resources. As each business competes to attract and maintain the price increases.
    In a weak economy higher unemployment causes lower wages.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    10:27am
    You are spot on TREBOR. The current system is fraudulent and indeed ANY profit originating in a country of origin needs to be taxed IN THAT COUNTRY at the going rate. That is not rocket science.
    The fact that our current PM has his funds stashed in a blatant tax shelter and nothing is done about it is testament to the fact that the government we have is corrupt. A bunch of rotten apples in suits preaching economic management as they hand money hand over fist to the wealthy. Fraud!
    Don't expect a lot to change unless ordinary citizens start to understand the game or we get a revolution. The media is owned by the big end of town and the same deal everywhere. So the cartel continues to function and the dumb public wonder why they cannot afford to live any more. Give me strength!
    Rosret
    13th May 2018
    9:40am
    Mick if I have a different perspective on the last 20 years it does not make me a troll.

    My eyes and ears are wide open to what both parties are advocating. They both need to be watched very carefully. The Labor party made some huge mistakes in power. If they want a future platform it has to be one that accepts what didn't work and then moves forward. Even the turmoil of continual poor leadership changes indicted their own rank and file was unhappy.

    Their principles are excellent but its a balance between finance, social welfare and economic growth. Its the some of all the parts and its always about compromise.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    11:09am
    Thanks for the balanced comment. You are certainly one of the regulars here unlike many on this blog who are clearly working the site after Shorten's reply.
    For the record I agree with your sentiments. My concern is that this time around it's different because this government is not a 'normal' coalition government. It is working on a dictatorship (ABC?) and wealth transfer to the top end (America?). The add in regular legislative changes to stop journalists delving into the crooked behaviour of the rich. Don't even get me started on (fraudulent) tax havens....which the PM is involved in too.
    The last 6 years are there for all to see: huge debt and nothing to show for it other than waste.

    If Australians are duped into putting this lot back in then God help us all. Maybe I see the world different but I do see what is going on. Whilst I have not voted Labor for decades it is a case of the best of a bad lot this time. No other choice other than leave this country altogether.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th May 2018
    7:07am
    Adrianus, Shorten's franking credit policy actually does one hideously wrongful thing - it makes low income earners pay company tax. Instead of a 30% tax on companies, we will effectively have those earning too little to pay tax paying 30% tax and those earning plenty paying nil. Good one, Shorten! That's absolutely contrary to the Labor ethos. And I agree it is stupid and economically detrimental, and it cannot possibly raise the predicted revenue.

    BUT... and here's the point you are missing. Companies have outright declared the THEY WILL NOT use increased cash resulting from tax cuts to increase employment, nor to increase wages. Companies hire as many people as they NEED. No more. They don't hire more because they have more cash. They hire more because PEOPLE BUY MORE. And people can't buy more when the LNP is constantly pushing wages and welfare income DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN. So employment will FALL under LNP policies of giving unaffordable tax cuts to the wealthy and to companies and suppressing individual incomes of the classes that traditionally SPEND any extra they receive.

    Unemployment will fall when more people have more to spend and their extra consumption places higher demand on businesses to produce. The extra profit from extra sales will fund the extra jobs. TAX CUTS DON'T DO IT AND ARE NOT EITHER NEEDED OR JUSTIFIED.

    Neither party is getting it right. Shorten is clearly an idiot and the ALP strategy will do hideous harm. But the LNP is equally bad, or worse. It's a choice of two incompetent, corrupt, dishonest demons, and none of us can reliably determine which is the most harmful to the nation.
    Adrianus
    15th May 2018
    7:48am
    Quote Kathleen,
    "No debt is bad too."
    Surely you don't seriously believe that?
    Adrianus
    15th May 2018
    8:18am
    Rainey, you are 100% correct. Why should low income earners and pensioners pay company tax?? It seems to fit the Fabian ideology. According to the Left, there are two classes, the haves and the have nots. There is no in between. The haves need to be a relatively small select group of superior intellect who work at maintaining the status quo. Only those people have the wealth in their future perfect world. Keep the proletarians poor and dependent on government handouts. It would not surprise me to see Shorten announce additional welfare to be distributed to those poor who miss out on franking credits..
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    8:54am
    Adrianus, you are right about Labor's ideology, sadly, But the LNP's ideology is that there are two classes - the haves and the have nots, and there should be no in between. The difference is that the LNP believe the have nots should be trampled on and starved into slavery, whereas the ALP believe the in-betweens should be robbed to support the have nots at a modestly comfortable standard.

    Both parties are happy to overfeed the rich and let them pillage and plunder (mainly because THEY and their buddies are rich, and heaven forbid they should do anything to hurt themselves or their mates). Both parties clearly hate the climbers who work and save to improve their status, and both persecute and punish anyone in that category. The only difference between them is their approach to the poor. One group wants to starve and enslave them. The other wants to feed them crumbs, financed by taking from the climbers and in-betweens such that they are crushed and have to join the have-nots living on crumbs.

    The in-betweens and strivers always lose no matter what. And that is why the nation is stuffed - no matter which bunch of bastards governs.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2018
    3:27pm
    Rainey it is clear to me that you don't understand how the franking credit system impacts on the ATO nett revenue.
    Wiser
    11th May 2018
    10:15am
    Bill, all this and heaven too. ????
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    11:25am
    Labor cannot be trusted to keep their word. Ask Andrew Wilkie.
    Eddy
    11th May 2018
    12:06pm
    Could any politician, (be they Labor, Liberal, National, Greens, One Nation, Democrats (if they still exist) etc), be trusted to 'keep their word', they all fly whichever way the political wind blows.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:37pm
    Quite true eddy but their are shades of grey at play here rather than black or white.
    Personally the $80 billion handout to the top end of town at a time Australians cannot meet their bills because of stagnant wages and the big end of town is doing very nicely does not make sense. How can anybody support such a disreputable policy. We are not America....are we?
    Knows-a-lot
    11th May 2018
    5:10pm
    We don't call the Liberals LIEberals or Fiberals for nothing...
    arbee
    12th May 2018
    10:34pm
    One thing that is very clear by his posts are that Knows-a-lot actually knows F--k all.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:01am
    What a government sponsored grub you are arbee. Its bad enough that you post your government funded right wing lies but when it comes to this sort of language you need to be banned from this website.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    10:25am
    Shorten unequivacably stated in his Budget reply that Labor would not touch retirees receiving dividend imputation credits. This has been an area of contention from a number of posters and the coalition trolls have made big claims, all now worthless. As usual. You are safe.

    Whilst I don't wish to be a walking billboard the choice of government appears to be so clear you could drive a truck through it. Whilst it pains me to vote for one of the major parties this time around seems unavoidable given the current government trying its best to divide our country into rich and the (destitute) working poor. I won't have a bar of that and I hope that neither will any of us. That is not what Australia is.

    As I have already said in the past I can see a dictatorship developing with Turnbull at the helm. This lot has already hidden the dealings of the rich from public scrutiny, it is compromising our privacy laws and it is attempting to close down the ABC because the ABC refuses to become yet another right wing propaganda machine. The fact that the PM has his money in a blatant tax shelter and refuses to stop tax avoidance by the wealthy tells the complete story. It has to end!
    If Australians do not rid this country of the political cancer which now infests Canberra it will get a future none of us wants. Your call fellow Australians!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    10:29am
    OG - please respond to the above. Facts, not vitriole or mudslinging please.
    Sen.Cit.89
    11th May 2018
    11:04am
    I read what you're saying, Mick, now I'm in a quandary, previously deciding to vote for an Independent with views I support, I do not wish the Nat/libs in power and without any doubt do NOT want Labor in power. Many, many times I've listened to them on question time in Parliament (both houses) talking rubbish. Seems like I will have to carefully choose an Independent again.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:10am
    My bigger picture is indeed to remove both sides from monopoly government by voting in Independents.
    Given the nature of the current lot though all Australians should be uniting to rid ourselves of this rich man's monopoly. I have no interest in living in the emerging dictatorship and neither should any of us.
    Kathleen
    11th May 2018
    11:19am
    I think Labor is the answer this time too. I actually don’t hate Turnbull but blame the mindset of the party to reward the banks for bad behaviour and keep boot licking the super wealthy. Turnbull has a heart but is governed by others within the party.
    Maybe lift the tax free threshold to way up to something like $40,000 which would benefit all but the poorest the most.
    We need Labor to fix the hospitals and schools and TAFE etc because LNP will not!
    I have voted for each of them in the past but this time it will be Labor because it needs to be fairer for the worker and the poor people.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    11:29am
    I thought the hospitals and schools got fixed by Rudd, Gillard, Swan, Bowen, Shorten et al??
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:39am
    You are a kind soul to think that Turnbull is a decent person. The man has his fortune in offshore tax shelters so presumably pays zero tax here. Money lost by all of us...but he still uses our roads, hospitals, police, etc.
    Also consider that Turnbull was involved in hiding the dealings of the rich from journalists so that crooked top end citizens cannot be found out.
    And then there are attempts to track citizens and take away a growing list of privacy right we currently have.
    Turnbull is indeed controlled by his degenerate Party but he has free will. Prostitutes will sell out every idea they have so I leave you to perhaps reassess politicians on a case by case basis.
    I too thought Turnbull would be good for the country when he arrived on the scene. Things have worked out differently and I see the man as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Cheers
    Retired Knowall
    11th May 2018
    12:22pm
    If you are Self Funded and not a Full or Part Pensioner you will be impacted by Labors policy.
    Those exempted will be 277,000 full and part-time pensioners and 29,000 non-aged pensioners on other allowances such as carers, disability support pensioners, the unemployed and those on parenting payments.
    In addition, another 13,000 SMSFs that have at least one pensioner or other allowance as a recipient before March 28 will also be exempted.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:40pm
    I am a self funded retiree. Can't even get a Health Care Card.
    If you want to blame somebody blame the current government which has caused immeasurable pain for us as a group and still in their trying to roll the family home into the assets test so they can throw a whole pile more people into destitution.
    It is unfair that you come after Labor on this issue as the history is clear to all.
    Old Man
    11th May 2018
    12:51pm
    Aw MICK, you're wrong on that count. The government has never said, nor even hinted, that the family home should be included in the asset test. That suggestion has been put forward by bureaucrats and has always been knocked back.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:58pm
    I have to admit I cannot be sure on your comment but suggest that when 'leaks' like this happen the government of the day is nearly always behind them.
    Given the brazen and ongoing attack on retirees of all manner I think the writing has to be on the wall. If they can't get you out of your house and living on the proceeds then I do believe they will include the family home in the assets test if re-elected. Failing that...an Inheritance Tax.
    Either way this lot are gone shortly so we won't have to worry.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    1:10pm
    Mick, I agree the LNP have done hideous harm to SFRs, and very unfairly, but Labor introduced the assets test in the first place. Never forget that. Labor has not befriended the likes of you and I either.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:28pm
    The assets test was fair. What was not fair is that the current lot then made sure it would hit average citizens when it should have only targeted the top 1% which has plenty of funds invested to provide a wonderful retirement. There is a stark difference.
    George
    11th May 2018
    1:43pm
    MICK, I can agree with a lot of what you said, however Labor refused to reverse the Assets test (after initially introducing it).

    Note that Shorten also did not rule out the large $7K tax cuts to the rich (and all MPs) on $200K and above, and tried to confuse people by simply focusing on the lower and middle income tax cuts.

    Nothing for Older Australians either. Can't recommend him or his party, also given their history, e.g. increased Age for pensions to 67.

    Best option remains - vote OUT all current Liberal, Labor and Geeen seat-warmers by putting them LAST in preferences, and hope new members (Independents included may do a better job o looking after the people especially Older Australians.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:51pm
    Can't remember George but all politicians move on and policies change. The real interest I have is whether Shorten will stick to what he says he will do or not. We don't want another Abbott who the day after the election is done starts shredding the promises he made the day before.
    The is a place to introduce an Impeachment Law in Australia to stop low life MPs from behaving immorally.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    9:03pm
    Mick, an assets test was NEVER sensible. Punishing people for saving is always going to hurt the economy, and will ALWAYS be unfair. And Labor never proposed changing a limit that was patently unfair when investment returns crashed to a tiny fraction of what they used to be. Nor would they pledge to reverse the LNP's wrongful changes. And now they ARE attacking SFRs with an unfair franking credit policy. (Yes, I checked and verified. Your understanding is wrong. Only pensioners or SMSFs with one member receiving a government pension before March 28 will be exempt!)

    I detest the LNP, but unfortunately Labor is not presenting as a worthy alternative.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    9:06pm
    And as for the family home - the assets test attacks homeowners unfairly. Rent assistance discriminates against homeowners. And now we have reverse loans at higher than average mortgage interest rates to reduce pressure for increases in the pension. It's coming! You can be sure the assault will continue - whichever party wins power
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    9:35pm
    I'll try and get an update on that OGR. Thanks for your info.
    You have to remember that if either party hits retires too hard many will fight back. There are ways to punish a government which unfairly attacks any large group of people. Retirees are not exactly a handful of folk although SFRs are a smaller subset.
    We live in interesting times but my number 1 priority is to see the back of the most wicked group of politicians I have ever seen running our country. I stand by my comment that a dictatorship is its ultimate aim as they keep restricting privacy and hiding behind legislation they enact, including closing down any media outlet which dares to challenge fraudulent government from the right.
    Ok...time to get off the soapbox.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    10:54pm
    On reverse mortgages - DON'T TOUCH THEM! A friend of the ex (for whom I am full-time carer - the ex that is) is currently going through the trauma of her mother having to go into a nursing home, and her deceased father having taken out a reverse mortgage - leaving not one cent in the till for the nursing home.

    I long ago showed you in figures that a reverse mortgage would double in around under 8 years, then triple in eleven, the quadruple in thirteen or fourteen, and after that it gets worse and worse.

    You would be far better served selling your home and living on the capital with rental assistance, unless you plan on dying tomorrow.

    Don't touch a reverse mortgage.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    12th May 2018
    7:05am
    Trevor use the rule of 72. At 10% prices will double in 7.2 years.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    10:20am
    Yes TREBOR, Australians should not be touching reverse mortgages with a ten foot pole.
    This is a product guaranteed to destroy an inheritance but this is what the top end of town and this government want. Leave your family nothing and make them dependent on income from their job.....which on current for will lead to poverty and destitution. The long game being the top end of town snaps up all assets of any value and the rest of society becomes dependent slaves.
    I think I may have lived too long. The world is not all that wonderful a place.
    Baby Huey
    11th May 2018
    10:48am
    Q
    Tarzan
    11th May 2018
    10:50am
    Shorten will say whatever is necessary to get the top job, similar to the Qld Premier, he will learn from her, just watch out if he is elected, it will be Shorten, the C.F.M.E.U. and the Greens , what a scary thought
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:11am
    And Abbott? And Turnbull?
    The difference being whether or not you want a rich man's dictatorship or a party which does not try to change the laws of the land to create one.
    Kathleen
    11th May 2018
    11:21am
    Greens are rubbishing Labor which I do not understand.
    Thank goodness for the unions as workers would not have the benefits they do today.
    I see no choice this time if we are to have some fairness restored.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:41am
    The Greens spat the dummy because Labor said it would govern in its own right or not al all. The Greens want to do what they did when Rudd and Gillard were PM: blackmail the party into doing things it otherwise would not do.
    You are right about unions love 'em or hate 'em. If we didn't have them what saw happen to hospitality workers would be on for all of us. Slavery and availability 24/7.
    Old Geezer
    11th May 2018
    1:13pm
    Agree it will be a different Bill Shorten if he wins the election when he has to be accountable for his policies and their fallout.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:29pm
    And Abbott? What's different now?
    Oldie84
    11th May 2018
    10:54am
    "Anything you can do I can do better". It would be hilarious if it wasn't playing with the Future of our Country.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:13am
    It is indeed but what I have said above is pertinent. If the coalition were a law abiding government governing for the nation I would feel otherwise. They are anything but and we should all hold fears for the long game which is being played out. Tax cuts for multinationals and the wealthy are but the beginning.
    Oldie84
    11th May 2018
    11:20am
    I think your imagination is running away with you Mick. I wish you would stop playing the Rich vs the Poor card. That is so old hat and is pushed by the Lefty Social Progressive. Just look what untold misery it has caused in Countries that are ruled by Communism and its variants. We are still living in the best place on this planet, even if you are poor.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:53am
    $80 billion of the countries money Oldie. That is not rich vs poor. It is fraudulent use of the nation's resources.
    Australia has never been owned by the rich. The rich have always done well but the current push has been to turn the country into a mirror of the American model where the top live in unbelievable obscenity and the rest live in squalor and need to work fulltime as well as collect food stamps.

    You might want to write my view of as 'leftie' but you miss the point that Australia belongs to all of us and we need a fair carve up of the wealth we have. Not rich man's corruption where taxable income is fiddled using creative accounting, offshore tax shelters and blatant dishonesty. Nothing leftie about these things which are blatant accommodated corruption........from a coalition government.
    Baby Huey
    11th May 2018
    11:15am
    Governments of all flavours have been warned since the early 1970s of the baby boomer demographic time bomb coming when the boomers become retirement age. Whitlam despite his other shortcomings tried to get an retirement system similar to the Social Security system in the US. While the US may not work in Australia at least he had the forethought that Australia needed a superannuation system while the baby boomers were able to pay in over a long period. The idea was put down by Fraser and his landed gentry.
    Subsequent governments did nothing and we now have the situation where a third of pensioners, mostly not of their own making, are living in poverty.
    Governments due to their own failures are inciting generational war against older Australians who only followed the policies of the governments of the day to attempt to save for their retirement.
    All Politicians and Governments are corrupt and self-serving only some are more than others. The politicians we have today from all sides of politics are cognitively defective F-wits. As for Bill Shorten he is the biggest corrupt lying F-wit politician in Australia today.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:19am
    I would have to put Tony Abbott at the top of that list BH with the current PM not far behind. The real test for Shorten's credibility will come when he becomes PM. If he does an Abbott then he will suffer the same end.
    Let the games begin. And the winner is...........not Sydney.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:03pm
    Mick - I turn 69 in a month or so - can I afford to live long enough to see all the arseholes given their just desserts?

    I don't want three years of a Shorten disaster to follow the current Abbott/Turnbull disaster... I want real change now.

    One of the prime movers to revolutionary action is the perception that meaningful change is too long in happening... I see nothing on the horizon to indicate that meaningful change is about to happen.

    Told yez - I've studied revolution/counter-revolution/terrorism/counter-terrorism and a few other things...

    I want change NOW- not twenty years down the track when my grand-daughters are working in the sex trade to earn a living or are selling their daughters into that trade to make a few short-term dollars.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    10:11am
    Fair call TREBOR and I agree with your sentiments but have a look at the form from the current lot and tell me that they will not succeed in closing down their main media opposition (the ABC), taking away even more privacy rights from us all and transferring even more public money to the top end of town whilst blowing our debt out of the water.
    As I see it we need to get rid of the dangerous government first. That unfortunately means putting Labor in. After that it is a long game to convince voters to get a European model and start voting for Independents who are nation focussed and not defacto major party MPs packaged as Independents.
    Hope you see my reasoning. It is the urgence of the situation which pushes me to feel this way but I completely agree with your sentiments.
    TREBOR
    12th May 2018
    11:45pm
    I agree totally, Mick - just saying that the road is fraught with pitfalls now matter which way we go, but we cannot afford a continuation of the current lot, so it looks like Labor with their often silly social policy ideas run by the Usual suspects that seem to think they are entitled to everything, and that politics is the way to gain personal power and control over society - not serve the people.

    11th May 2018
    11:19am
    Mick, that is not my understanding of the Shorten position. My understanding is that he wont be taking away the imputation credits from those on the OAP or part thereof, but the last I heard it is still open slather on SFR's. Other contributors may enlighten me, one way or another. But who can take anything he says or promises seriously? He said all his members had no citizenship problems, and now he blames the advice on his legal team. So when he cant deliver on any budget commitment, I can just hear it now - it is all the fault of Treasury - we were given the wrong advice! How convenient - promise the world, and blame others when it goes pear shaped
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:24am
    Shorten said SFR's would not lose a dollar in imputation credit refunds. It was quick and maybe you missed it. I was particularly vigilant on this one as it will affect our income if it were otherwise.
    You might want to weigh up the 2 sides. $80 gift to the top end of town? That about says it and personally the top end of town has no need of such a handout no matter how much the rich and their propaganda machine push for it. This money needs to stay in the country and working FOR AUSTRALIANS. Pretty clear cut.
    I saw a summary from Chris Richardson who is a right wing commentator. Richardson nearly choked as he said that Labor was spending very little. I thought that was interesting so your point about 'promising the world' might need to be revisited I suspect.
    Kathleen
    11th May 2018
    11:26am
    Big Al, no party is just one man or one woman otherwise our PM would be free to be just because I think he is basically a good man but his hands are tied and he is owned. Labor actually has a good team and some impressive people in there. Watching QandA a few weeks ago I was impressed by the opposition assistant treasurer and then went and researched him. There are others in there too who are very good. Libs have a few too but more nasty ones unfortunately.
    Labor this time for me!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:30am
    Good assessment Kathleen. As much as I hate to vote for a major I will be on this one. There is only one clear choice from what I can see and it ain't the dictatorship which is forming in government.
    Anonymous
    11th May 2018
    11:49am
    Kathleen, I would argue that Peter Dutton would take some beating as a minister - yes I am looking at the government in the hope they will be returned, as the alternative scares the living daylights out of me. I also have a lot of respect for Simon Birmingham in Education, and Greg Hunt in Health - probably the two most difficult portfolios in government, because they are open ended spending departments - no matter how much you allocate in those areas, there will always be criticism that it is not enough - irrespective of who is in government. Penny W(r)ong just doesn't do it for me - total smart alec, and whinges needlessly - no wonder she gets on so well with Hansome-dumb from the Greens!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:01pm
    Lying Greg Hunt? "You have high electricity because of the Carbon Tax". Remember? The guy even kept up the blatant lie after Abbott got in.
    Says a lot about you Big Al. Going for the dishonest bunch of crooks currently in government rather than jumping ship for the nation's sake.
    What scares me is the current lot. We have seen almost 6 years now and only a half wit would not have joined the dots. Lies, abusive behaviour and trickery at every corner. And you talk about the other side!
    Vote for whoever you wish. That is what democracy is about. But please do not offend readers by making statements like the above.

    I agree with you on Penny Wong if that helps. Now make a statement about Morrison, Corman, Pyne, and a few others. No interest? Funny that.
    Retired Knowall
    11th May 2018
    12:19pm
    If you are Self Funded and not a Full or Part Pensioner you will be impacted by Labors policy.
    Those exempted will be 277,000 full and part-time pensioners and 29,000 non-aged pensioners on other allowances such as carers, disability support pensioners, the unemployed and those on parenting payments.
    In addition, another 13,000 SMSFs that have at least one pensioner or other allowance as a recipient before March 28 will also be exempted.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    12:37pm
    On March 28 or BEFORE March 38, Retired Knowall. I can't get any clarity on whether those kicked off the pension when the govt changed the assets test are included in the exemption or not. They are the ones who will be most in need of their franking credits. They've already lost many thousands in income, and they are unlikely to have substantial incomes, as their assets fall below $1.1 million (many as low as $425,000 if one of a couple). They simply cannot afford to lose up to 30% of their income.

    I've asked the question of both Labor and Greens but all I got was an arrogant response from Tanya Plibersek saying ''we had to do something'' and ''only a relatively small number of retirees will suffer loss''. (I guess that makes it okay then? Not enough people impacted to cost Labor significant votes, so it's all good. Let those impacted starve. Who cares about fairness or decency? And clearly those taking from the public purse won't have the decency and integrity to stand up for SFRs on this issue. They are too blinded by envy.)

    We really are left with the choice of the devil or the deep blue sea, it seems!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:46pm
    Retired Knowall - I answered the same post from you up a couple of comments.

    OGR - I also addressed the franking credits issue above. Shorten was crystal clear that franking credits used by retirees to recoup tax paid by the company would not result in one dollar being lost by retirees. That is: NO CHANGE!
    You need to watch the reply to the budget again.

    I think the choice has never been clearer. $80 handout to the rich? Are we kidding? Think what that money can do. The rich do not need it but the country does.
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    1:40pm
    Mick, when will you ever learn, you keep on saying, Shorten said this and that as well, as if whatever he says must be the gospel truth. The man has done nothing but lie since he came into politics and probably for long before then as well. There is absolutely nothing to like about him, and if it wasn't for the unions pushing his barrow he would probably only be a backbencher now or not even in politics at all. Why do the unions push, simple answer, he is a puppet on their strings, and if he gets into power then they control he country, and then anarchy rules.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:55pm
    "Nothing but lie"? I think you must be talking about the current government.
    Unions? We need these otherwise the raping of Hospitality Workers will be just the beginning of Australia's transition into slavery and everything owned by the top 1%...who also happen to own the media and promote their own governments into office.
    I don't want to give you any credence but all politicians are liars so try that one with somebody who knows no better. The issue here is who is the least dishonest?

    Come on arbee. Your role on this website has been clear for a while. Why bother. You are transparent.
    Retired Knowall
    11th May 2018
    5:57pm
    I am a self funded retiree. Can't even get a Health Care Card. If that's your answer, what does that mean?
    My point is the Labor Party are no better than the LNP, both will lie and put forward half truths and it's the Aust. people that will suffer.
    Choosing between the two is like being up to your neck in tank of sewage, if someone spat at you would you duck?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    7:00pm
    I'm pointing out that I am not one of the boys on either side.
    Of course both lie but only one is conducting class warfare. Whilst Turnbull is shovelling money into the bank accounts of the rich Shorten wants a fairer outcome where those who can afford to pay some tax do....and I don't a few peanuts on a high income. That is what this government wants.
    Choosing between the two? Only a paid troll would find that hard to do.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:05pm
    Surely this means SFRs under a certain 'ceiling'? What meaning is there in the hunt if there is nothing to catch?
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:07pm
    Peter Dutton - ** chokes and blows froth off top of beer glass** .....
    Retired Knowall
    12th May 2018
    8:17am
    Mick the TROLL, YOU still don't get it, I am saying you don't have to choose between the two, DON"T Vote Foe Either of the two Majors, Both are TOXIC.
    Vote Independent.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    10:05am
    I have not voted for either for many decades but THIS TIME I have no choice because getting the current batch of crooks back in cannot happen. I do not want a rich man's dictatorship in power. Neither should you or any decent Australian who values freedom and fair government.
    AutumnOz
    12th May 2018
    11:07am
    Mick vote Independent. Join the majority of unemployed or pensioners and those people on gov't benefits who are sick of being ripped off.
    The only thing that will get the message through to either the Libs or Labor is losing seats and all we can do is make sure seats are lost at the next Federal Election.
    Take your courage in your hands and vote for an Independent.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    1:15pm
    That has always been my call but this time is different. We are faced with a looming rich man's dictatorship. The noose is being tightened slowly but surely and the first step is to see this lot on their way. After that your solution is on the books.
    George
    12th May 2018
    8:39pm
    Labor and Liberals have been taking turns to screw the normal people, in particular Older Australians / Retirees / Pensioners. So, I have NO confidence in this Labor party!

    Shorten has also missed the opportunity to a) Reverse the Assets Test changes now that we have "rivers of gold", b) Not ruled out the big tax cuts for the wealthy of $7K+ including for all MPs, c) Not considered alternatives for the broken pension system such as Universal Pension or even a Review, and d) Not outlined any major offensive to ensure large companies and the rich pay their fair share of taxes say by having a Minimum Tax system. He seems to think he will have an easy ride in, based on the current Govt's unpopularity!

    As I have said elsewhere, and many times previously, the best solution is to vote AGAINST the current seat-warmers (mainly Liberals and Labor) by PUTTING THEM LAST in Preferences, thus getting rid of the current Liberal Govt (and a lot of Labor clowns) and could end up with a lot more Independents or other good alternative party candidates. That will shake up the system, if only Retirees can act together this way, and make Retirees a force to reckon with!
    We need that to happen NOW! So, agree with Trebor & AutumnOz.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:05am
    There is one very important difference George: Labor has NEVER attempted to bring in a dictatorship. A dictatorship begins with control of the media. Then it moves onto controlling freedoms. Use your intelligence and the last 6 years and judge for yourself.
    As I keep saying THIS election is about democracy, not Labor or Liberal. There is indeed a difference.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    11:23am
    Bill Shorten has committed to $200 billion of higher taxes – on electricity, small and family business, incomes, housing, investment and retirees.

    Labor’s $200 billion tax hit would hurt families and cost jobs. Is no good for the economy
    We cannot afford Labor. No not again!!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:27am
    Why do I suspect you are posting government propaganda?
    Please mention THE DEBT which the Abbott and Turnbull (almost said Costello - sic) governments have MORE THAN DOUBLED.
    Please also mention the $80 billion gift to the top end. Funny how your comments have no balance, cherry pick and then come to a conclusion which is fanciful at best.
    Kathleen
    11th May 2018
    11:27am
    Deluded or paid troll as there is no balance to your statements.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    12:41pm
    Or perhaps one of those who will suffer unfair loss of desperately needed income because he is NOT dependant on the public purse, Kathleen. Do you think that maybe you could exercise some objectivity?

    Shorten needs to change his approach to franking credits and every decent pensioner will demand that he does before deciding to give him their vote. Just because a policy doesn't hurt you is no excuse to support unfairness that will do horrendous and seriously unfair harm to many who are already struggling, but don't rely on the taxpayer for support.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:47pm
    OGR - get your facts straight. You are not up to speed mate. Watch SHorten's response last night. Black and white! You will not lose $1 of imputation credits!!!!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    1:18pm
    Retired Knowall has an entirely different take on what was said.

    I'd love to get some official clarification, but the bastards don't think they are accountable to ordinary voters, it seems. So how can I believe them?
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    1:26pm
    Shorten says one thing and does something different though. You must know him well MICK, tell us, How can we trust him to honour his word?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:31pm
    If all else fails the right wing trolls throw mud.
    I have never met Shorten and I have not voted for either of the majors for decades. You would know that from my posts.
    This time around I have no choice. You might want a dictatorship but I do not. I'll be voting for a democracy which unfortunately will mean Labor.
    Knows-a-lot
    11th May 2018
    5:13pm
    Pretty funny OGR talking about exercising some objectivity. She's incapable of it.
    George
    11th May 2018
    7:58pm
    Adrianus, don't ignore the good things Labor is proposing, such as a Federal ICAC (long overdue) and no $80 Billion tax cuts for the large companies which will not help this country.

    However, he could have used the "rivers of gold" to reverse the Asset Test changes for pensions, increased pensions, and also clarified that he won't give the major part (60%) of the $140 Billion in tax cuts to the rich especially as we suspect MPs (with $200K salaries) will be the biggest beneficiaries.

    Yes, voters have a tough choice - only solution seems to be to vote AGAINST all current seat-warmers of major parties, and hope things improve in future with new members.
    Young
    11th May 2018
    11:23am
    NO
    fairplay
    11th May 2018
    11:26am
    Mick, My understanding is if you are a SFR you will be hit with Shorten's policy on FRANKING credits ...see the att. link
    https://www.fool.com.au/2018/03/27/what-labors-backdown-on-franking-credits-means-for-your-retirement-income/.................Cheers
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:28am
    Replay last night's Budget Reply. Shorten was black and white that SFRs would not lose $1 of dividend imputation credits. Can't be clearer than that.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    11:30am
    Yeah, that's what he says now. :(
    Why do you keep sticking up for the guy MICK?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:43am
    Because what we currently have is a rich man's club trying to dole out $80 BILLION of our money to the wealthy, who have zero need of it. You may have heard we have debt to pay down, mostly created by the current lot in good economic times?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    12:21pm
    I wish I could believe Shorten on franking credits, Mick. I didn't hear it, and I am very sceptical (sorry!) because I've written so many letters appealing for them to assure me they won't be demolishing the incomes of poorer SFRs and I've had only one response - from Tanya Plibersek, who indicated that the change would ''only affect a small number of retirees'' and ''they had to do something about revenues''. She made it quite clear they intended to take franking credits from SFRs and had no concern whatsoever for the consequences as the number affected was too small to cost them significant voting support.
    Retired Knowall
    11th May 2018
    12:25pm
    Mick is part right, SFR's will be spared BUT, one of the couple will need to be a Full or Part Pensioner.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:49pm
    OGR - I understand. It was very quick but then the man a list and a half to get through. I'm sure you can find a link and watch the replay. I seem to recall about half way through.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:50pm
    Retired Knowall - I recall hearing Shorten refer to "self funded retirees". Please correct me if I am wrong.
    Retired Knowall
    11th May 2018
    6:00pm
    Check Labors web site.
    Retired Knowall
    11th May 2018
    6:12pm
    He did refer to SFR's BUT only as long as at least 1 of the couple were on the OAP.
    Under the Pensioner Guarantee, every recipient of an Australian Government pension or allowance (including Age Pension, Disability Support Pension, Carer Payment, Parenting Payment, Newstart and Sickness Allowance) with individual shareholdings will be protected from the abolition of cash refunds for excess franking credits. Self-managed superannuation funds with at least one pensioner or allowance recipient before 28 March 2018 will also be exempt from the changes.
    Is that clear enough for you?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    6:56pm
    I would welcome some real clarification. Not just liberal party trouble making.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    11th May 2018
    10:36pm
    Mick the purpose of Shortens dividend policy is to stop self funded retirees getting refunds of franking credits because the get refunds of $2.5 million each. LNP changed this so it is no longer possible on 1st July 2018. All his modelling is therefore crap and he knows it but is still telling everyone it is a fort to be stopped.

    In his speech he thinks everyone over pension age is on the pension so his idea of SFRs are people on the pension.

    If he can't admit he got it wrong how can we even consider such a man as PM? I certainly can't .
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:14pm
    I was always concerned about the statement that pensioners would not lose under the changes to franked credits.......

    Remember I said Labor needed to clarify this and include which SFRs they would include - in some detail.l

    Otherwise it is a political ploy subject to change without notice...

    Trust a politician? I can't afford that much rope........ and certainly not with my life...
    VeryCaringBigBear
    12th May 2018
    7:10am
    Pensioners will lose under the changes to cranked dividends. Those with annuities in annuity only pension funds will lose up to 30% of the value of their annuity as Labor will not give the franking credits back to these annuity pension funds because they pay no tax. They are the equivalent to many SMSFs under the one umbrella.
    Retired Knowall
    12th May 2018
    8:28am
    MICK the TROLL, if you want real clarification, DO YOUR OWN research, but take in the FACTS even if they don't don't align with your particular bias.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    10:03am
    Thanks for the serve. I heard what Shorten said the other night and it does not align with the comments above. In all fairness I have written to Shorten and will follow up with a phone call next week and report back.
    Hope that is satisfactory.
    Troll? No way. I may be defending Labor against the raft of unfair attacks from this decrepit government but only because they a morally reprehensible, dishonest and intended to gain an election victory. Can't let the worst government in our history create their rich man's dictatorship Knowall. You?
    VeryCaringBigBear
    12th May 2018
    2:57pm
    Mick you heard what you heard as a Labor supporter. I may have heard the same but my knowledge of the subject gave me a completely different interpretation of it. Whole idea of his insane tax is to stop refunds of $2.5 million in franking credits. I believe they have found one person did receive this much so to stop that person getting his refund he is going to stop all refunds of franking credits. Can we afford to have someone this insane as our PM?
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    4:27pm
    Am not a Labor supporter but that does not mean I do not empathise with some/many of the party's ideals.
    I do not support rich man's party doing business for rich men, banks and multinationals...even though I am a capitalist.
    Call me whatever spotted dog you like BB but recognise I am an independent think, not a stooge.

    Franking credits? I'll wait to see what Shorten's office says if it responds to my contact. I will chase this down.
    In the meantime let's not let the government which has come after retirees with a vendetta off the hook. It has done more damage than any half baked Labor policy which may or may not be tweaked leading into the election.

    You need to develop the art of being able to compare real attrocities with misdemeanours and see the real animals for who they are. I think I have that one right.
    For the record if Labor did the dirty on franking credits then I will be bleeding too. Cheers
    VeryCaringBigBear
    12th May 2018
    8:20pm
    Mick I certainly won't be voting Labor with that insane franking credit policy on the table even though it doesn't affect me. It gives to the high income earners and takes from the low income earners. My grandkids at uni invest in shares to make a little extra income to help pay their uni fees. They will now be burdened by these fees for longer than they should. Once they get a job they will be able to use these franking credits to pay less tax. How is it fair to effectively tax them at a high rate when they earn little and save them tax when they get a job and earn a much higher income?
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    8:51pm
    There's a hole in the bucket dear Lisa dear Lisa........
    Respectfully VCB but your post is incoherent and makes no sense other than toeing the liberal party line.
    Vote for whoever you like. Plug the worst and most dangerous government in living history. No comment!
    Meerkat
    11th May 2018
    11:31am
    Why would any sane person believe a word that comes out of Shorten's mouth. Look at the mediscare campaign - all lies but sadly many believed it. His class warfare will destroy this great country, and destroy any incentive for decent people to strive for a better life. Don't be fooled by labor!
    fairplay
    11th May 2018
    11:44am
    Mick, i would want it documented and cannot find any reference on the internet so what he said WILL be different to what he does.He was originally talking about HUGE savings, then back flipped to not affecting anyone receiving a pension, now if you are correct there will be virtually NO saving or at best very little ...THIS BLOKE IS A JOKE..... not that Turnbull is much better , but when it comes to fiscal policy Labor has a poor track record !!!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    11:47am
    Decent people do indeed strive for a better life but you know as well as I do that the current lot are into Class Warfare. That is the first shot over the bow of the $80 BILLION handout to the rich.
    You mention the Mediscare campaign but no mention of the hacking of GetUp a week earlier. Who do you think was behind that? Nor do you mention a one sided election campaign where Turnbull got long stints at children's hospitals and primary schools (baby kissing?) whilst Short got....you guessed it, maybe 5 second clips.

    Tell me about being fooled and fairness.
    Meerkat
    11th May 2018
    12:03pm
    What you and most in labor don't seem to understand is that it is business - big, medium and small - that employs the vast majority of Australians - basically everyone except the thousands of public servants we seem to think we need. So the Big end of town as they are called, are also the major employers - help business and you help working people - attack business and it becomes a race to the bottom. Just look at labors record during those terrible Rudd/Gillard years - disgraceful, irresponsible government. You might not like Turnbull but if you care about the future of Australia it becomes a no-brainer! Vote wisely!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:22pm
    And what business people seem to forget is that the large majority are CONSUMERS and their businesses would be bankrupt if consumers have no money to spend.
    You have no idea of how it all fits together and if you want to demonise the Rudd/Gillard governments I ask you several simple questions:

    1. WHY has the national debt MORE THAN DOUBLED given that the GFC was behind us by the time Abbott was put into office?

    2. WHY have offshore tax shelters where the rich launder their money and avoid paying tax not been closed by the Turnbull government? Oh yes...the PM is in this game too!

    3. WHY does this lot want to give the rich an $80 billion tax cut when it is well understood that this section of society has been increasing wealth at a rapid rate in the past 6 years whilst everyone else has marked time?

    "Disgraceful, irresponsible government" Meerkat? Yes , that is what we have had for the past 6 years. Indeed vote wisely!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    12:28pm
    Meerkat, business does employ the majority of Australians, BUT unless the average Australian has money to spend, business cannot make profit, cannot employ, cannot pay tax, and cannot grow. The problem we have is that the LNP keeps handing out to the wealthy who DON'T spend, because they already have more than they need. I support tax cuts for small business, but larger businesses have confirmed unequivocally that they WILL NOT INCREASE EMPLOYMENT OR WAGES, but will simply pocket the bonus. And in other countries where corporate taxes were cut, that's exactly what happened.

    I care about the future of Australia. I care that we DO NOT see tax cuts of 60% for high wage earners and billions handed to big corporations to pay their CEOs and Directors even more obscene salaries, while pensioners wallow in poverty, the unemployed are vilified and half-starved, and lower wage earners get crumbs.

    EVERY SINGLE PERIOD OF HIGH GROWTH IN AUSTRALIA'S HISTORY was when taxes were higher. And that's logical, because taxes fund infrastructure projects that drive employment AND they fund benefits to the poorest so people have money to spend to stimulate more business profit and more jobs.

    Yes, vote wisely. Kick these bastard social engineers who are wrecking the nation OUT. I dislike Shorten intensely and I've never favoured Labor, but the LNP MUST GO.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    12:43pm
    The big problem is that Labor isn't offering a reasonable alternative. It leaves me in a real quandary. Which is worst? I suspect that financial advisers are correct that Shorten's disgustingly cruel and unfair franking credit policy would never pass the Senate, but we should all be uniting to demand he withdraw from it if he wants our vote.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:54pm
    I am warming to you OGR. Glad to see you are on the facts.
    You are still on the franking credits and need to check the budget reply. SFRs are not impacted!

    In the end what you gonna do? Re-elect the devil trying to turn Australia into America mk II or vote for a Party which is not wanting to become a dictatorship and which will govern for all of us? Given the history and charter of the Labor Party I do not believe they will plunder retirees like the current bunch of rats. Your call.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    1:12pm
    Mick, beware of thinking SFRs are not impacted by the franking credit policy. Maybe you should write to Shorten & Co and ask for confirmation. I can't get a reassuring response.

    How about we ask Kaye to seek clarification for ur? Maybe they will answer her.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    1:17pm
    And sadly, Mick, I can't agree that Labor would not plunder retirees. They do seem to have an inbred hatred of anyone who works hard and is moderately successful. Or maybe it's just a communistic belief that anyone who rises above the rank they were born to needs to be cut back down to size? Or is it a socialist view that anyone who enjoys a modicum of success must be obliged to give all the rewards they earn to the poor, because of course they must have been ''lucky''?

    Whatever, given that they refuse to respond to my fair and reasonable questions (other than Tanya's 'it only hurts a small number'), I can't have any faith in them at this stage. But I have not had any in the LNP for a long time and, frankly, I can't understand how ANYONE can vote for a man who supports cutting the incomes of battling retirees because ''we have a budget emergency'' yet hoards his own fantastic wealth in an off-shore tax haven!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    1:20pm
    BTW. Mick, if SFRs won't lose and pensioners won't lose and those who lodge tax returns won't lose, who WILL lose? Where will the claimed savings come from. Seems to me there's nobody left to be impacted.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:36pm
    OGR - I can but go on the promise made in Shorten's speech. Unlikely Abbott would be unlikely Shorten would do an about turn the day after the election, better known as a blatant lie, but only time will tell.
    Last thing is Labor has traditionally always been a working man's party. It is unlikely Labor would turn on its supporters unlike the current batch of rabid dogs who have come after the bottom end with a passion and torn it apart.

    I'll go with my gut feeling OGR.
    Knows-a-lot
    11th May 2018
    5:14pm
    Wake up Meerkat. The Fiberals have wrecked the joint.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    9:28pm
    Fair comment OGR but I suspect Shorten will pick his mark. Having assets of $2 million is not rich. Having assets of $10 million is. Somewhere Labor will have to decide on leaving SFRs alone because they are not ripping pensions out of the public purse and taxing retirees after they hit a certain level. Welcome to government. All I can hope for is that that point is a fair and reasonable mark. I am sure it will be.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:14pm
    If you'd said 'out of a politician's mouth' - I would have been behind you 100%, meerkat.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:19pm
    I warmed to Rainey a long time ago - we are all - the real ones among us - on the same path - sometimes we don't understand all the issues and make all the right judgements - but that is why we are here - online - to discuss and glean information.

    We need REAL government and governance - not eh current travesty of a government of two parties that has failed us all...
    Retired Knowall
    12th May 2018
    8:24am
    Spot on TREBOR, Both parties need to be decimated at the next election. If you keep voting the same way as you always did, you will keep getting what you now have.
    VOTE INDEPENDENT.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:58am
    What I have been saying for years. One caveat: make sure your Independent is not a closet Liberal by checking where the preference will go to.
    AutumnOz
    12th May 2018
    12:56pm
    Mick, you decide where your preference goes, that is what preferential voting is all about.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    1:16pm
    Only for the lower house.
    Retired Knowall
    12th May 2018
    6:24pm
    Yes you need to get Proactive and contact the Independents in your Area. Question them on their values and your concerns. If you are happy with the answers tell them you will advocate locally for them BUT, if they stray from their promises you will do your level best to have them removed.
    But whatever you do Don't give your precious vote to either of the 2 Parasite Parties, they need to learn that they are their to SERVE US.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    8:53pm
    You are whistling Dixie as rome burns Knowall. This is no ordinary election. It is a choice between serfdom/poverty if you re-elect the current crop or uncertainty if you elect the opposition. So you are going for serfdom/poverty. God help you.
    boma
    11th May 2018
    11:48am
    Why is Mick trying to use the union movement bullying tactics to take up space in this discussion let others who are much wiser than him have a say. You know Mick you don't need a long neck to be a goose The government is not handing money to anyone it is money they have generated.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:05pm
    Ha, ha, ha.
    The trolls are out in force today and I have a free day. The perfect match.
    Name call all you like. I'll keep stating the facts and you keep name calling and throwing mud. Readers will work it out.

    To respond to your only meaningful statement: the wealth of the land does not belong to those who sell it. That's where you rich folk don't get it. Whilst those who invent something brilliant or dig up something valuable deserve a cut THEY DO NOT DESERVE IT ALL. If they believe otherwise tell them to buy a country, build their own roads, hospitals, schools and then pay to administer their new home. Please respond to that!
    downunder
    11th May 2018
    12:01pm
    Interesting to see all the LNP trolls here on that site. A very sad situation
    Meerkat
    11th May 2018
    12:10pm
    I think it's called discussion. What's so sad about that?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:23pm
    What's sad is that the so called facts presented are lies Meerkat. Please read my response above.
    Anonymous
    11th May 2018
    12:47pm
    How come anyone that offers an opinion contrary to the dictates of Trades Hall Council, gets labelled an LNP troll on this discussion page? That is so typical of the Left in this country - politically correct morons. You guys (Mick especially), would be the first to shut down free speech. Just remember that our modern day democracy was basically spawned by the French Revolution, and out of that affair came the saying 'I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!" How sad you Lefties have shoved that idealism to one side to try to badger those of us who don't share your world view, to shut up and say nothing. That sort of tactic was used very effectively in Germany in the 1930's, and even more tellingly in Russia from 1920 (or thereabouts) on. You Lefties either learned very well from that, or you pay little heed to the lessons from history.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:02pm
    Easy to recognise the trolls Big Al. They attack one political side by throwing mud and making all manner of accusations whilst at the same time not offering one shred of reasoned argument or factual information.
    I might be a bit brutal when I see the above but it is what it is.
    Present facts and I'll argue the issues. Put forward BS or blatant lies and I'll be somewhat bad mannered and direct. Nothing personal.
    Retired Knowall
    12th May 2018
    8:31am
    So you can pick a Troll MICK, have you looked in the mirror lately?
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:56am
    I argue the facts and debate the issues with logic and commonsense. Trolls use vile language, smear and innuendo Knowall. Please let me know if I ever cross the line.
    Retired Knowall
    12th May 2018
    6:30pm
    I Will, Keep up the Good Work.
    My thought is the same as the Yanks at the last election, they didn't vote for Trump, they voted for anyone other than Hillary.
    One was a vote for the SAME OLD pain with lower and middle income people living in cars, the other was anyone else, as it turned out it was trump.
    We need to send a message that we can't and wont be taken for granted, and politics in Australia doesn't mean a Gold Pass for life.
    You may hate the LNP but the LP is no Better. BOTH need to be sent into the wilderness for at least the next 4 years.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    8:59pm
    I don't think you have been watching the current lot for the last 5 years. You should be terrified about their attacks on democracy, privacy, the bank accounts of most Australians and the financial future of the nation. If you have not seen what is happening then you deserve what you are going to get.
    This is no time to be sitting on the fence. I NEVER vote for either of the majors but on this occasion we need to get the country back from the coming dictatorship. In case you have not noticed dictatorships begin with the control of free speech. The only free speech media out not under control of the right is the ABC. Been watching? Second funding cut coming. A few more and uncle Rupert will be permitted to buy it.
    Read my lips! This is not a 'normal' election.
    Aussie
    11th May 2018
    12:13pm
    Just a simple question .....

    Why every time Lib's get in power we pensioner scared ..... and thinks change for us very quickly ????? and always the rich people get better and richer ???? why ????

    Not matter what anybody is saying but Lib's only look at the rich side of the population .... typical capitalist like USA and now .... Mal is shitting his pants when US pull out from the Syria deal .... what a joke dear Mal keep following them and take more from us wowowowowo
    Knows-a-lot
    11th May 2018
    5:16pm
    Short answer: The Libs are self-entitled vermin.
    AutumnOz
    12th May 2018
    12:59pm
    Vote Independent Aussie and get rid of the Libs in the next election.

    A shake up in government is needed to ensure we may all get decent policies presented in future governments.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    1:17pm
    Correct....but this time is different because THIS coalition government is unlike all others before it.
    boma
    11th May 2018
    12:16pm
    Mick I not a trollop so stop showing that I am correct in declaring you a low rung commo be the way how are are you being paid to have a day off are you union organiser or just a welfare bludger. Mick never jump to conclusions or is that the sum total of your intellectual powers
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:24pm
    Ah....heemskerk? Thought so.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:22pm
    Can't be - this one uses capitals at the start of a sentence .. though that sentence for him should be twenty years or so...
    Huskie
    11th May 2018
    12:18pm
    Contrary to perception, the data for GDP and employment growth over the past 43 years suggest a stronger economy with a faster pace of job creation when Labor is in power than when the Coalition is in power. All of which makes you wonder why the electorate seems so convinced the Coalition parties are the better economic managers.

    Labor has been ineffectual over many years in tackling the issue of economic management. Kim Beazley, as Labor leader following the election of the Howard government, was reluctant to embrace the Hawke–Keating legacy, which saw a raft of reforms put in place that served the Australian economy well.

    The good economic times during the Howard government were fantastically strong, but this created an odd situation in terms of the public perception of economic management. Howard, his treasurer Peter Costello, and more recently when Opposition leader, Tony Abbott, convinced the electorate that the level of interest rates, budget surpluses and level of government debt were measures of economic management rather than simply the tools used to manage the rate of economic growth and employment. Low interest rates and budget surpluses were presented as indicators of good economic management. High rates and budget deficits have been portrayed as unambiguously bad.

    This has in turn hampered the case for economic reform, with governments reluctant to take on debt to build, for example, essential infrastructure, for fear of being seen to be borrowing too much. But even on these skewed measures of performance, the evidence confirms that the Liberal Party is a significantly higher taxing party than Labor and that for more than 20 years the government has had little direct influence on the level of interest rates, with the Reserve Bank of Australia setting interest rates independently of any government influence.

    The true lesson here is probably that public perceptions can be difficult to change, even when they are at odds with very clear reality.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:26pm
    The reality is Labor has brought about all of the major changes in society. Liberals always want to do one thing: give money to their supporter base. That is not government for the country.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:26pm
    'job creation' is a lie - more jobs are lost than are created, and most jobs are merely transferred between those who have jobs.

    Not a sign of a strong economy at all... just an endless race to the bottom and striving to prevent total disaster.

    A national economy needs producers and workers and spenders - without production there are no workers, and those without work cannot spend in any meaningful way to prop up costs of production, so the whole thing falls down and is left to 'economists' to work yet another way of staving off disaster.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:54am
    I would like to see how many full time jobs have been collapsed in the past 6 years and how many part time jobs have sprung up in their place. Don't expect Morrison to give those figures as that would see a quick end to the government because the damnation would be terminal.
    All we have seen from the last two governments is deceit and snake oil salesmanship.
    DLJD
    11th May 2018
    12:20pm
    Shorten, as always, comes across as opportunistic, insincere, unbelievable and too willing to make glib responses not good long term policy.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:27pm
    Another post from somebody I have not seen on this site before.
    Discuss policy if you want to be taken seriously. Your comment is little more than the next troll throwing mud and will gain you no traction.
    DLJD
    11th May 2018
    12:57pm
    Valid points of view expressed get ad hominem attacks on this page by the self appointed moderator.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:03pm
    Unfair. Please post with facts, not smear. Facts can be argued. Smear results in name calling. We need discussion or am I wrong?
    Knows-a-lot
    11th May 2018
    5:17pm
    DJLD - a perfect description of Turnbull.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    6:54pm
    From a collaborator!
    Old Man
    11th May 2018
    12:25pm
    I understand what Shorten has said and it reminds me of Rudd's "me too" promises in 2007. The budget reply speech gave a very good response to the budget speech but it's only a part of the story. How are the handouts to be paid for? Will Labor present the calculations to the PBO in time for the scrutiny and report to be delivered prior to the election? Two areas which affect Australia have not been mentioned, firstly, Labor's position on illegal refugees and, secondly, the live animal exports.

    I am concerned that the Great Barrier Reef has been characterised as dying and Shorten's wish to save the Reef is merely to attract the Green voters. The Reef has, over decades, had many areas under threat from various sources but in each case has rallied and recovered. Shorten will "save" the ABC and reinstate their funding which will ensure a favourable response from our "independent" national broadcaster.

    I believe that the response is aimed directly at those voters in Mayo, Longman and Braddon as these three seats may be returned to the government in the upcoming by-elections. The statement by Shorten were long on handouts and short on detail as the budget reply speech does not have to give as much information as the budget.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:34pm
    The answer to your first assertion OM is that Labor is (likely) using the $80 billion handout or rather a part of it to fulfill promises. I note you do not question WHERE the Turnbull cutthroats are getting the $80 billion from.
    Shorten has recognised/acknowledged that the government is trying to shut down the ABC reporting of political events by starving it to death. It is right that Labor should reverse this as the ABC is the only major media outlet left which is not a right wing propaganda masthead.
    The Great Barrier Reef. Agree. Indeed there are a number of issues affecting the reef. Climate change is at the top of the list and the reef may be gone at any rate. Already half dead. What it does not need is a coal loading port at its perimeter.
    I find it interesting that you apply rules to Labor which you fail to apply to the coalition OM. Need to be consistent or lose credibility mate.
    Old Man
    11th May 2018
    12:46pm
    By the number of your posts MICK, I presume you are back on our wonderful shore, welcome back and I hope you enjoyed your holiday. I chuckled to myself when you, correctly, said that our ABC is "the only major media outlet left which is not a right wing propaganda masthead." I couldn't agree more, MICK, in fact I'll go as so far to say that our ABC is the most left wing broadcaster in the country. Even if Shorten had said that he would reduce funding to our ABC, their support would still have been as strong.
    Anonymous
    11th May 2018
    12:59pm
    I cannot believe this BS you lot are espousing about the ABC being the only major media outlet which is not a right wing propoganda outlet! So, you lot have never picked up a Fairfax publication, such as the Age or the Sydney Morning Herald? You have never heard of the Guardian publication? There are countless other media outlets I could name that are not empathic to the right side of politics - and you Lefties have well over 50% of media support - especially by ABC TV and radio. So get over yourselves on this one, and don't bother altering the truth to support your version of what is actually happening!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:15pm
    OM - thanks for the welcome home. I might be jet lagged but I knew what to expect from the trolls today. Yeah....get a life Mick. Chuckle.
    I think your call about the BC being a far left masthead is a bit unfair. I saw Leigh Sales rip into Shorten last night in regard to the 4 Labor MPs who had to resign. The trouble with the ABC is that right wing governments expect to escape scrutiny. They are getting a grilling via the ABC so now coalition MPs can understand how non coalition politicians feel when the likes of the Murdoch media takes them apart. And then we have the other local media stations doing the same.
    What I would say is that it is a national disgrace that the government has cut funding once and is now lining up for a second crack at it. Closing down the only independent media outlet left is how you get a dictatorship off the ground.
    The only way your figures stack up OM is that people are abandoning media outlets they perceive to be propaganda machines and going to where they see genuine reporting rather than contrived stories.
    If you don't like the heat the ABC is applying then stop the corruption in the government and the self serving interests of the rich from playing out.
    Sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree on the ABC. I see both sides get roasted. It's just that the right is self righteous and believes it is special. It's not.
    Cheers
    Old Man
    11th May 2018
    2:07pm
    "I find it interesting that you apply rules to Labor which you fail to apply to the coalition OM. Need to be consistent or lose credibility mate. "

    In reply to the above part of your post MICK, I try to answer the question put by the person who wrote the article. It asks what I think of the budget reply and I couldn't find the bit where it says, "compare and contrast". The problem I have with some of the posts in this website is when people go completely off topic or answer the questions that they think should have been asked.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:30pm
    Sorry to say - but Don Pedro Castella said that the nation needed to save $18Bn a year......how is spending the $80bn (up from $50bn???) going to alter that scenario?

    If you spend it elsewhere - how is it going to be recouped?

    Well - if you spend it on the engine room of the economy - the majority who actually spend into the economy - your economy is sustained..... if you hand it to Offshore Giants Inc - it is Gonski....

    So - the question becomes - ARE we active and willing contributors to some 'global economy' - or should we be concentrating on OUR economy first and foremost?
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:52am
    TREBOR - I was of the understanding we had a "debt crisis" and needed to do "budget repair". So now it is acceptable to give away $80 billion of taxpayer money to those who not only have no need of it but who will put it into their personal bank accounts rather than into the economy.
    So what happens to our interest repayments when interest rates on our debt go back up to normal levels. no conversation about this from our rich man's brain dead government. Only paid trolls pushing their vile sick rhetoric.
    Bring on the election Malcolm. The sooner your Party is kicked out the better it will be for our country.
    Dave R
    11th May 2018
    12:28pm
    Hmm there appear to be a lot of LNP trolls posting here today.
    No wonder after Shorten produced a budget reply that mocked the governments pathetic effort with narrow appeal.
    You could see the worried look on the LNP faces as the LAB's laughed as they announced a far superior plan with wide appeal.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    12:35pm
    Yeah. I am trying to keep the (paid) bastards honest but could use a bit of help. Thanks Dave.
    Oldie84
    11th May 2018
    1:00pm
    :-) :-) :-)
    Sundays
    11th May 2018
    3:41pm
    A good response by Shorten. Anyone who will increase spending in health and education gets my vote. The Liberals only care for big business, and they do nothing for workers
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    5:00pm
    The only thing they do for workers is steal their money, reduce their conditions, make their jobs insecure and then brand them unsuitable. That's what this lot call a package.
    Sundays
    11th May 2018
    5:57pm
    Agree Mick. I would love one of these Liberal trolls to tell me one real achievement Michaelia Cash has made to employment other than lots of photo opportunities
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    6:53pm
    Yes. I am amazed at the sheer number of new faces on this website spouting liberal party propaganda. Disturbing.
    TREBOR
    15th May 2018
    1:35am
    " I would love one of these Liberal trolls to tell me one real achievement Michaelia Cash has made to employment other than lots of photo opportunities "...

    That brought an instant laugh to my humble soul... Cash has done not one thing of any value for employment despite her 'job title' at excessive remuneration.
    alinejordan
    11th May 2018
    12:57pm
    and they think they're clever with their ridiculous unbelieva...blah blah blah.. that's why australia should not become a republic because the public will fall for stupid slogans like that and vote in people who do nothing but lie and favour the rich. and wreak massive social and moral destruction on their way such as t. abbott! god help us!
    Lookfar
    11th May 2018
    4:58pm
    Not sure if I understood you properly alinejordan, but think you are talking about the constitution?
    As the Constitution is our guide on these matters, section 44 is not the only part to be read, it should be read in relationship to other sections, - section 34 has more to say and interestingly part 2 of section 34 says that if a person is found to have been illegally acting as a member of parliament, he may be sued for 100 pounds for every day he sat in parliament, by any citizen of Australia, meaning I understand by every single Australian citizen, - and bearing in mind that 100 pounds in 1901 was a substantial fortune, the modern equivalent would be extremely discouraging for anyone contemplating such a deception.

    It seems to me the height of idiocy for an intendent politician to not read the constitution before running for parliament, and had those now expunged, read it, they would not be in the position they are now in..
    I may not have understood section 34 perfectly, so would appreciate it if any could clear it up, - I am very much looking forward to my hundred pounds (in modern currency) for every day each of these miscreants sat illegally in Parliament..

    The constitution was written by folk wanting to found a nation, and is now under threat by folk wanting to destroy our nation for their own shortsighted monetary gain, - despite being old, as we are, it contains many safeguards, for the sake of our children and grand children we should defend it until they learn to understand it, (not taught in schools any more) or cannot, as we die, but then we have to let go anyway.
    The Constitution needs changing in small ways, but the ignorant want to change it in big ways, - no insight, better to keep it as it is until we are all convinced that changes will help Australia achieve it's/our, Destiny, - vote very carefully in Referendums about if ever changing the constituton is my feeling.
    Hope I picked up on what you were saying.
    Geoff.
    Old Geezer
    11th May 2018
    1:12pm
    Bill Shorten can say what he likes as he is not in power and so has no accountability.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:17pm
    Neither have you OG. I noticed you stopped posting the BS about franking credits today. So you watched SHorten;s response last night? Good one. Put the issue to bed. Now kindly acknowledge you were mistaken. Thanks.
    Old Geezer
    11th May 2018
    1:36pm
    I'll post all that later for you when I get time.

    No I was too busy doing something more important than to watch that rubbish from Bill Shorten last night.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:37pm
    You have to watch if you intend to post OG. Otherwise you lose credibility.
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    11:03pm
    OG, Micks reply to you was a bit rich about lacking credibility wasn't it?

    I refuted one of his earlier statements on this post today with Treasury figures and when I asked him to back up his statement all he could do was reply with his usual left wing diatribe.

    If that is not a lack of credibility I don't know what is.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:47am
    You refuted nothing. To tried on a con and I called you out. No answer to that.
    arbee
    12th May 2018
    11:02pm
    No Mick, as I said yesterday, I quoted treasury figures on the deficits that have been ran by governments since Howard, and they clearly showed that labour was by far the worst performer, and that the Liberals in government since Rudd have not doubled the deficit as you have said they did. Not unless you have come across a weasel way of trying to twist figures to support your own unbelievable statements, but then that would be a page straight out of labour's copybook wouldn't it.

    You still have not come up with anything concrete to refute these figures, but I guess that would be hard because I am quoting Treasury figures, and you are talking straight out of labour's propaganda machine. So just what do you figure is a con with the figures I quoted?

    As for you saying on this forum that anyone who objects to your views must be a liberal troll or in the employment of the Liberals is laughable to say the very least. In fact most of your posts are strongly supporting labour, so how much are they paying you?
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:09am
    I won't be comparing apples with oranges. Only right wing trolls and the mentally challenged would do that and come to a conclusion.
    If you want real figures then look at Huskies post below. You will have nowhere to go then as these are real figures. Not your normal government BS.
    john
    11th May 2018
    1:14pm
    Good post Big Al , Shorten is not to be believed and ALP need a new leader and a totally new face , not even Albo , or Tanya no!! A new new face, fresh and ready to do FOR THE NATION, not him/her self.
    Watching the comments on Shorten and Turnbull , you have to wonder what happened to Australia , our politicians have turned into what resembles bulldusting sleazy business men, and the unions have become exactly like big influence business' with a super union worth millions , why?
    And here we are hearing people talk of total renewing of the politicians and politics and decency in this country. And look at us how we can we vote for either of these failures or all the little one eyed dangerous cross bencher parties with one subject they know anything about .
    Then we get the Greens who are plain just deadly , for our future.
    So talk of revolution in Aussie politics , never , we are much too "she'll be right mate"!
    Even the Japanese said , attack Sydney on a Saturday the silly buggars will all be at the races, yes a bit of humour, but it puts to the point the fact that we are complacent and I see a new feeling in people that change is not something you dream about , but something the majority of voters puts in its mind, enmass .
    I think we are all fed up with the falsehoods of both major parties, and its frightening, because they don't give a stuff, its about vote buying and they do not have to put their jobs on the line if they fail, LETS CHANGE THAT!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:20pm
    A hearty YES.
    In the meantime your choice is Labor or Coalition. Place your bets. $80 billion to the rich or $80 billion spent on the country. Not even Saturday yet.
    Your call.
    Anonymous
    11th May 2018
    2:41pm
    Mick, lets clear up one point you have clouded over - this fictitious $80 billion giveaway (so called). How can a reduction in a tax rate be called giving something away? If you earn $1000 gross per week, and the tax rate is, say 30%, then effectively the government are going to take away from you $300. If the government reduces the tax rate to say 25%, then the government are going to take $250 - can you follow me so far, Mick? Not easy, I understand, but hang in there! So therefore under these circumstances, the government is not giving anything - they are simply not helping themselves to $50 of hard earned. So your $80 billion, is something the government never had - it is income (to the Treasury) that the government will decide/has decided, not to collect. They haven't gone to you Mick, and taxed the living daylights out of you, and then are proposing to hand over to the big banks all this loot they have lawfully acquired from you. So stop this idiocy, and understand what is really happening. This $80 billion dollars foregone by the government in tax receipts will, guess what, end up in many instances, in people's superannuation accounts, or directly as increased dividends. Then the recipient, not the government, will get to choose how she/he will spend this money. That is our economic system in a nutshell, and I for one feel far more competent to determine how best to spend my income than the likes of Rudd, Gillard, Swan and Short-on! I would be surprised that anyone with half a brain would think otherwise, and I am glad we have a government in power that thinks this way too!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:11pm
    Tax not collected when it is due = a giveaway. Let's not play the game of semantics here.
    I don't consider collecting a bit of tax from earners with incomes > $150,000 pa outrageous and your assertion is that of the rich: "we'll be ruined" as they seek to pay nix, even after the large amount of deductions they have.
    Tell me what somebody earns and the what the tax is as a PERCENTAGE of that income and I'll show you how the top end of town crooks bleed the system....and then have the hide to cry poor.
    Our economic system as you call it is that the tax system is set in place and that the more you earn the more you pay. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN FAIR no matter how much you want to pay nothing.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:34pm
    Ah... johnboy - so it's all about the cult of personality and not reason??

    OK.......

    I do hope you are not the john I know and trust... the one that appears on river cottage or whatever it is...
    baza18
    11th May 2018
    1:19pm
    Yeah you sound a real "battling " Labor supporter Mick seeing your are a self funded retiree, owning shares etc. doing a lot better than a lot of us. I wouldn't believe a word Short Bill said. He helped back stab your mates Gillard & Rudd. The people smugglers are already telling the illegals to just wait until Labor get into to power. Thats when the boats will start coming again.We are still supporting the 50,000 Gillard & Rudd let in & will for a long time. Very short memories the Australian public
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    1:54pm
    You sound jealous, baza18. Maybe Mick is doing better than you because he worked harder or went without more in earlier life. Maybe he richly DESERVES to do better. He certainly does NOT deserve to have to forfeit the fair rewards for hard work or sacrifice, and he doesn't deserve offensive comment either. You have no idea of his situation. Many SFRs are actually worse off than pensioners in income terms and living on savings is not an appealing prospect when (a) you slogged hard to accumulate savings to cover expenses that will arise later in life; and (b) eroding savings means being forced onto the pension.

    You would have far more credibility if you were more courteous and respectful. Frankly, I dismissed you as a nasty with no valid opinion based on your first sentence.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:02pm
    Sorry to be doing ok baza18. Makes it hard for trolls to post as I should be on the other side of politics....but I cannot eat my own vomit so will leave that to you.
    I understand that SFRs have been savaged but it is the Abbott and Turnbull governments which have come after them with a passion, not Labor.
    My memory goes back a long way and Shorten has stated a number of times that the coalition policy on asylum seekers is not going to change as well as Labor wanting to rule in its own right....presumably so that it cannot be blackmailed by the toxic Greens again.

    Post some fact baz18. That wins an argument if the facts are correct.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    9:14am
    You are right, Mick, but sadly Shorten is determined to finish what the LNP started. Apparently people who work and save are on the nose. And of course the useless and bludgers and spendthrifts are so green-eyed that they are delighted to see workers and savers bashed. Too stupid to understand that when there are no workers and savers left, and all like you have been reduced to pensioner status, there will be nothing more to hand out to the likes of baza18!

    Problem is that with so may stupid and so few workers and savers, there's no hope for a government that will do what is good for the nation. Both parties are promising more of the same harm!
    baza18
    11th May 2018
    1:22pm
    Your comment is so very true John & frightening.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    1:23pm
    Kaye Fallick, can you please ask a senior Labor Party MP to clarify the proposed change to franking credits as it will impact self-funded retirees?
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    1:27pm
    Would you prefer MICK or Kathleen?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:39pm
    Agree OGR. Kaye missed this in her spiel and also missed Shorten's support of renewables, which I thought needed a mention.
    I look forward to an update on these Kaye. Thanks.
    Adrianus
    15th May 2018
    7:44am
    Ask a senior labor MP to clarify the proposed change to franking credits? I think you're just being difficult. Stop rocking the boat.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    9:57pm
    Adrianus, if you can't comment intelligently, please shut up! Your garbage is tiresome.

    I want clarity, and so do many others.
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    1:26pm
    Shorten hasn't even done a proper costing on his figures, at least I suppose writing them down on the back of an envelope is a step up from Rudd's days when only the back of a drink coaster was used. Little bit more room on an envelope, maybe we should at least give him an A4 size one for the next budget reply.
    If this financially illiterate fool ever gets into power then we aint seen nothing yet in comparison to Rudd's giant spendathon.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    1:39pm
    arbee, I agree. We must not let Shorten get into government. He was the puppeteer of Rudd and Gillard. If he gets a sniff of victory this time industry will be better prepared. Commerce will be scaled down. Businesses will slow down employment as they go into survival mode. We are carrying far too much private and government debt to be in any position to handle it.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:42pm
    Neither did Morrison/Turnbull as they happily gave away $80 of taxpayer money.

    Rudd's spendathon? Make a comment about the MORE THAN DOUBLING of the national debt since Abbott/Turnbull have been in office. Not one to show for that huge waste other than destroying the NBN we should have all had and paying more than the full project in the process. Mismanagement of the worst kind...and the right wing media never give mention to this.
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    1:53pm
    Once again Mick, you play with the figures
    Last 6 years of Howards government 81.8 billion surplus
    6 years of labour 239.7 billion deficit.
    4 years of Liberal government 128.9 billion deficit.
    Even if you are taking Howards surplus figure away from labour's deficit then the figure still has not doubled.
    The reality is labour has always put us into deep debt and left it for the Liberals to get us out of it. Even you should be able to see that.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    2:03pm
    Arbee, it's well known to those who read and reason objectively that Labor's debt was primarily the result of the combined challenges of the GFC and the tax cuts Howard and Costello introduced for the wealthy. It's happening again. The LNP is committing future governments to huge tax cuts for the wealthy - 60% for high income earners. I fear that if Labor wins the next election, they will once again be blamed for a deficit that will result from ScoMo's latest ill-advised give-away.

    If you gave away your future income via an irrevocable agreement, and then handed financial management to your wife, would it somehow be her fault there was insufficient future income to meet obligations?

    Howard and Costello enjoyed a massive boom - and wasted the profits of it. I don't think they even wanted to win the election when they saw the writing on the wall, but I'm sure glad they weren't left to deal with the fallout, because we'd be in far worse shape now, given their penchant for extravagant gifts to the wealthy. Sadly, ScoMo, Turnbull and Co. are demonstrating the same habits, which is why out debt has soared.

    No, Labor hasn't put us in deep debt and left Liberals to get us out of it. Liberals have created future obligations by promising boat loads of gold to their tax-avoiding rich buddies, and left Labor to find ways to pay.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:08pm
    Fact 1 - the world economy is picking up because the GFC has long been done and dusted.
    Fact 2 - no country on the planet did anything other than run big deficits during and after the GFC.
    Fact 3 - the last two coalition governments have more than doubled the national debt despite times being good.

    You are airing the normal right wing misinformation whilst conveniently ignoring the qualifying information

    Make some proper conclusions please. The only thing the libs are going to do is give money to the wealthy, destroy all working conditions and turn the country into an American mirror where you have the obscenely rich and the poverty stricken poor. No thank you.
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    2:20pm
    Mick where are your figures then to refute the figures I have given. Mine are official Treasury figures, are yours straight from the back of Shortens envelope?

    Are you now saying the Treasury is right wing and giving false figures then, you are unbelievable and blinded by left wing doctrine.

    Once again your socialistic ideals are coming to the fore, take away everything from those who worked their guts out to get it and then give it away to those who don't want to work for it.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:15pm
    You failed to respond to the CONTEXT of your figures, as expected.
    You know as well as I do that GDP during a recession/depression and not comparable to GDP figures during the good times. Please do not insult the intelligence of readers by equating the two so that you can draw illogical and incorrect conclusions.
    Better to focus on two figures: the doubling of the debt by the last two coalition governments and the $80 billion tax (welfare) handout to the richest people and businesses in the country. That is what you avoid.
    libsareliars
    11th May 2018
    1:28pm
    I think Bill's budget is a much fairer and much more prudent one than the LNP who only look after the wealthy.
    Old Geezer
    11th May 2018
    2:22pm
    If you keep fleecing the wealthy then they will find ways so that they don't pay enough for the government to look after you.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:17pm
    Paying a fair and reasonable amount of tax is not fleecing the wealthy. The trouble is the wealthy seem to believe that it is up to hand to mouth workers to pay tax to maintain the country so that these same wealthy folk have good roads to drive on, hospitals to use when get sick and police to protect them. It is sick!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    9:12pm
    OG, the wealthy are already finding ways so they pay enough for the government to meet its obligations. Have you not noticed we have a debt and deficit problem. That CANNOT be the fault of those who don't earn enough to pay tax! It can ONLY be because the rich are miserable greedy self-serving scrooges with no integrity or decency. Of course they THINK they are being fleeced if they are not allowed to rip off the nation and society and wallow in stinking unearned wealth.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    9:24pm
    Careful OGR the trolls will accuse you of wealth bashing. You are of course correct but the game proceeds nevertheless.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:37pm
    If you keep fleecing the poor then they will find ways so that they don't pay enough for the government to look after you.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:46am
    If you keep fleecing the poor they will have no money to spend and business will belly ache that they need even more tax relief. It is a spiral the rich bastards refuse to see with their blatant greed but it is a spiral which will get them in time.
    The system does not work when the rich own it all.
    Not a Bludger
    11th May 2018
    1:34pm
    Oh my giddy aunt -Mick, you really do take the cake - believing any “rolled gold” guarantee from Shorten - the union, thug boss who stole from his union members, ran secret slush funds of non tax paid cash, married for personal social advancement, supported MPs who lied about their citizenship status (at huge cost to taxpayers) and slid through Crime Commission by the skin of his teeth.
    Couple this with his support of the criminal CMFEU amongst other.
    And, as to retirees and franking credits, you are wrong again - retirees who are not receiving any pension payment will be denied refund of the tax already paid on dividends received by them.
    Shorten’s stated objective with this is to try to drive the funds in SMSFs to so-called industry funds - ie those controlled by unions and their bosses.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:45pm
    I guess you believed every word from Abbott in opposition did you? I think that Labor has a pretty good track record in this race unlike the lying coalition. Check the facts!

    I recall Shorten stating that "Self funded retirees will not lose $1 in franking credits". Please go check and confirm if I am wrong. I await your response.
    Not a Bludger
    11th May 2018
    1:50pm
    Your recollection, Mick, like some of your other views, fails you.

    Shorten has put a whole new meaning to “rolled gold”.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:10pm
    I go by what is promised and the track record of the Party. Whilst I have no time for politicians generally Labor nearly always delivers on its promises. Talk about Tony Abbott please!
    Anonymous
    11th May 2018
    3:15pm
    Sure Mick - Juliar in 2010 - 'there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead!'
    Guess that must have been a rolled gold promise, hey Mick?
    Not a Bludger
    11th May 2018
    3:20pm
    Not worth while hearing further from you Mick - but just FI are you a staffer in Shortens's office or some other rorting labour pollie's office or just in a good old union office/building site down the road.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:21pm
    Correct. "She lied" as the relentless campaign went. So why was Tony Abbott permitted to lie without being brought down? I never heard Alan Jones go after him in the same manner. Nor do I recall hearing Jones name call Abbott either. That disgusting behaviour was reserved for Julia Gillard.
    I think your post needs to mention some of the above unless you are doing a snow job Big Al.
    George
    11th May 2018
    8:22pm
    Tony Abbott promised no cuts to education, health, or the ABC and SBS, and no changes to pensions, and BROKE ALL THESE PROMISES. Not in the same league as Gillard who broke one promise as a price for her deal with Greens to get into power (still not an excuse), whereas Abbott had NO such reason to break promises - it was just outright thuggery from an arrogant politician once he got into power.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    9:23pm
    You have told it like it happened George. The trolls are in denial overdrive today and I cannot believe how much money the government has to spend employing so many of them. Maybe it will need tax cuts as well. Oh yes....many donations do not go through the books.
    the_Albert
    13th May 2018
    4:46pm
    Big Al: you must have missed Peta Credlin admitting that it wasn't "a carbon tax" but she and Abbott decided to call it that anyway for (very effective) political purposes. (The measure was of course very good policy and its repeal has made Australia's response to global warming much less efficient.)
    Tarzan
    11th May 2018
    1:41pm
    Is this the same Shorten who sold out low paid union members when he was a union official?
    I think he is a liability, watch out for Albo.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:46pm
    Who cares. The main game should be to get rid of the current rich man's dictatorship which is forming. After that all bets are off. Correct?
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    1:56pm
    Mick have you started using your white cane and seeing eye dog yet, because if ever anyone reminds me of BLIND FREDDY, you certainly do.
    Also Mick, we care because it is OUR COUNTRY that Shorten and his union mates will wreck.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:11pm
    Your routine brain dead right wing propaganda post arbee. High in mud slinging and devoid of facts. That is why you have no credibility...like the government who employs you.
    arbee
    11th May 2018
    10:59pm
    Mick, I gave you clear deficit facts earlier and asked you to refute them, all I received in reply from you was your usual left wing rhetoric without any backup figures.

    Don't tell me that my right wing propaganda is devoid of facts, when I have already pointed them out to you and you cannot come up with a credible reply.

    As for the government employing me, well that is a joke, as I have never worked for any government or any of their departments in my life.

    I am in my seventies now and still do some work for a living and have been self employed for over 95% of my working life. I don't bludge on the government either, and yes I am proud to be centre right wing as I have already seen to many times in my lifetime what destruction labour governments can wreak on our economy.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:39am
    Self employed? That says a lot. Another money grubbing person trying to screw struggling Australians out of a fair living.
    Your 'facts' do not stack up because you are trying to compare apples with oranges. If you had average intelligence you would understand that you CANNOT compare GDP in a recession with GDP in good times. Its like oil and water. They do not mix. But like your perverse government anything said becomes fact. Lies, half truths and slogans. It matters not.
    arbee
    12th May 2018
    11:15pm
    So Mick, I bet a lot of people including myself would just love to know what your occupation was in your working life. It must have been quite lucrative to allow you to enjoy your retirement without the need for any government assistance.

    So you think that anyone who is self employed is screwing struggling Australians out of a fair living, What about the owner drivers throughout Australia, What about the tradies who are on contracts, and not directly employed, what about the other hundreds of thousands of Australians who are self employed and find it hard to get by.
    Mick your statement is so full of crap that is is unbelievable, but it does tell me that possibly your previous employment may well have been as a union official, because the crap you have been spewing out is the same as they normally would.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:14am
    Your normal perversion of the facts arbee. You really are something.
    Small business, and I mean one man shows, are in a totally different category. I understand the struggle well as one of my children are in a trade.
    I find it quite amusing that a government paid troll always comes back with accusations of being union employee. You might want to consider the rewards which come with hard work, self deprivation, saving, investment and luck. Clearly you are incapable of this list which is why you have not succeeded in life.
    It is sad that anybody would sell their soul to a government of any calibre let alone this one. To be pitied arbee.
    bobby
    11th May 2018
    1:46pm
    Not in a million years. Better the devil you know!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    1:47pm
    "The devil you know" is what the current government is. Good choice of words. Have to agree.
    Huskie
    11th May 2018
    1:54pm
    Let's put in some facts rather than emotional drivel that is the "meat and potatoes" of the LNP. Unlike SCOMO, and some in this forum, I prefer to focus on facts and policies rather that attack the person.

    If a particular political party (or coalition) are better economic managers, it would show up with the economy recording a faster rate of economic growth, on average, when they were in power versus a lower rate of growth when the other side was in power.

    Table below shows the average quarterly real GDP growth rate under each of the last six governments.

    Liberal Abbott–Turnbull 0.63%
    Labor Rudd–Gillard 0.61%
    Liberal Howard 0.89%
    Labor Hawke–Keating 0.90%
    Liberal Fraser 0.61%
    Labor Whitlam 0.72%

    The overall weighted average quarterly GDP growth rates since 1972 are:

    • 0.80 per cent for the Labor Party
    • 0.77 per cent for the Liberal Party.

    This shows that the economy grows faster, on average, under Labor than the Coalition.

    in dollar terms it is approximately $1.7 billion per annum of extra GDP in each of the 22 years Labor has been in government.

    Average monthly increase in employment, 1973-2016
    Liberal Fraser 0.075%
    Labor Whitlam 0.114%
    Labor Rudd-Gillard 0.118%
    Liberal Abott-Turnbull 0.136%
    Liberal Howard 0.175%
    Labor Hawke-Keating 0.179%

    From November 1972, Labor registered average monthly employment increases of 0.154 per cent, while for the Coalition the average monthly gain was 0.136 per cent. The average monthly difference is 0.018 per cent or 0.216 per cent a year.

    The difference of 0.018 per cent in monthly employment growth is approximately 2140 people extra per month or 25,710 people per year. In other words, given the size of today’s labour market, when the Labor Party is in government, annual employment creation is 25,710 higher than when the Coalition is in power. Over the 22 years of Labor governments since 1972, 565,000 more people will be in work today than had job creation been at the pace set by the Coalition parties in government.

    So who are the better economic managers?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:14pm
    Thanks Huskie. Getting a bit tired defending the Alamo today.

    Facts and figures always tell a tale. Add to that Rudd started his government just as the GFC hit which puts it into perspective.

    Time for a coffee!
    musicveg
    12th May 2018
    1:21am
    That is really interesting Huskie, thanks for the facts, always beats the naysayers who are putting Labor down.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:15am
    I notice the large number of trolls are not disputing your facts or throwing mud at you Huskie. Well done.
    Meerkat
    11th May 2018
    2:01pm
    So consumers need to spend to help the economy. Agree. To spend they need money. This can come from government handouts (which increases our debt) or from wages. Wages are paid by business, so shaft business, more people laid off, less spending. Oh and by the way, just look at how the US economy took off when Trumpie drastically reduced company tax. Some people seem so entombed in leftie idiology, they can no longer see logic. Now that's sad!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:18pm
    What a dill you are Meerkat.
    Workers whose wages are stagnant have no money to spend given the sharp rises in living costs. Hospitality workers have already had their (low) wages savaged. Australians are being pushed into 4 hours jobs.
    At the other end we have tax cuts for the top end of town.

    Where do you think this "money to spend" comes from?

    I support business as I have in the past been in business and understand it is not easy at times. What I do not support is the avoidance of tax by business which can easily afford to pay their share and the doling out of taxpayer money to those who have doing very very well in the past 6 years and have absolutely no need of a handout. Get it!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    2:26pm
    Meerkat. big companies have declared outright that THEY WILL NOT INCREASE WAGES if given a tax cut. So logically the government should be directing the billions they are directing to company tax cuts to where there will be wage growth.

    The US economy is a hard one, because their tax structure is so complicated and their company taxes WERE very high. However, there has been NO real benefit to the middle or lower income earners. They have gone heavily backwards. All the benefit has been to the rich. Same in UK. No improvement to GDP. No gain for 80% of the population.

    Increasing pensions does not actually increase debt, as the extra spending results in revenue growth that exceeds the cost of the increase. However, my preference is to see an even spread of increased prosperity. That CANNOT happen with this government's policy of handing out only to the haves. All that leads to is more dollars in tax havens.

    The ultimate test is to examine the ethics of the leaders. When we have a ''budget emergency'' that requires depriving poor retirees, the disabled and the unemployed, and the filthy rich leader hides his wealth in the Caymans to avoid paying fair tax - well, that pretty much says it all! Nobody with a conscience or any kind of integrity could vote for such a vile and disgusting hypocrite.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:55pm
    Great post OGR.
    Adrianus
    11th May 2018
    2:58pm
    Australia has the highest minimum wage in the world!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:23pm
    And the highest rents. People can still not afford to live in most cases whilst you and your political party seek to push wages down to levels where Australians will have to dumpster dive to feed themselves.
    Anonymous
    11th May 2018
    3:24pm
    OGR - what a stupid comment - that increasing pensions doesn't increase debt! Well in that case, why wouldn't a government increase the OAP to, lets say, a million a year? No increase to debt you say, OGR? That is patently absurd, and renders all your other comments in today's forum as totally lacking credibility. Why don't you totter off down to Trades Hall with Mick and enjoy a nice hot cuppa this arvo OGR, and leave the discussion to the grown ups!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:41pm
    Big Al - can I come with you to the club. Always wanted to smoke a cigar with Malcolm and debunk anything Labor.
    Seriously, your posts are eating away at your credibility.

    You might be correct about pensions being a debt but then so is building roads and hospitals. You fail to say is that a society is responsible for all of the bits and that allowing wealthy individuals and businesses to avoid chipping in for the functioning of society is an obligation not a charitable act.
    If your big business mates were doing it so tough then CEO salaries would not be on the rise again (Alan Joyce from Qantas got $20 million last year) and multinationals would not be paying hundreds of millions of dollars to buy apps and small companies which are worth much much less.
    Your post has no credibility as you are just trolling for the current bad bad government which is about to be tipped out.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    8:53pm
    Big Al, you are showing gross ignorance. Of course outrageously high pensions will create debt, because people won't spend them - just as the rich won't spend their tax cut. My statement was that pension increases don't create debt when they are spent. They generate growth and tax revenue. Of course that's only true when rises are modest, but only a total idiot would suggest giving pensioners millions. Common sense dictates that any pension rise would always be modest. But keep insulting. All you do with stupid comments and insults is show that you can't debate intelligently.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    9:20pm
    That is the point OGR. The poor will stimulate the economy whilst the rich will save and the economy will go nowhere.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:47pm
    Increasing OAP or Unemployment Benefits doesn't cause debt - government spending does.....

    Commission of Audit anyone? Without the rubber stamp and the ideological twist? A REAL one - and not that commission of idiots with an LNP rubber stamp....
    TREBOR
    12th May 2018
    11:58pm
    Social Security does not increase 'debt' for the simple reason that it goes directly back into the economy.

    what does increase debt is the lodging of some of that money along the way - on its return journey to the treasury - by offshore corporations, tax haveners, and those who spend it offshore or lodge it in deadstock investments like serial housing that is an actual tax loss, not a tax contribution.

    It becomes abundantly clear the the large number of Social Security recipients are not the cause of debt to government - it is those few who have the capture large amounts of that money as it passes through the tax cycle and then subvert it into avenues beyond the reach of the tax cycle who are creating debt.
    Andy
    11th May 2018
    2:17pm
    So how many of the Government's measures will become the new lot of Zombie Measures, soon to be forgotten with the passing of time?
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:19pm
    Come on in Tony Abbott. When are lies not lies? When the coalition is campaigning.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    11:52pm
    ... yeah... but that was a non-core promise... not a core one.....

    Think I heard that one somewhere..... not from an out of touch politician, mind.. but somewhere......somewhere about six inches lower than my ears.... a bit like Peter Cosgrove when the short man 'reviewed' some troops, and the short man, scurrying along on his short legs, pontificated:- "They're a fine body of men, Peter!".. to which Cosgrove responded after a pause... "Huh?' ... and looking down replied.. " Oh. Yes - they are..."
    petergrimbeek
    11th May 2018
    2:18pm
    From my perspective, Bill Shorten is making many of the right noises. I'd like to see a boost to NewStart as well (why not have it all).
    The more difficult trick will be enacting the current Labor vision as a Government (unless there is an upset, I expect Labor to form the next Government).
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:23pm
    It will Peter. The current lot have put the noose around their own necks by attacking voters and treating them like ignorant fools because they believe their media outlets can run a sufficient propaganda campaign so that the sheep vote for them. They are wrong this time.
    My hope is that Shorten steps up to the plate and remembers the fire in his belly and anger at the current dictatorship.
    Old Geezer
    11th May 2018
    2:24pm
    Bill Shorten is making very annoying noises as far as I am concerned. If we don't lower that company tax and take away those franking credits then our companies will not be paying near as much tax here as they do today. Bill will just have to borrow more money and increase the debt instead.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    2:56pm
    You crack me up OG. Been into the cooking sherry again.
    Kosmo
    11th May 2018
    2:45pm
    He forgot to mention that Labor was the one that took the $30,oo increase every six months one the pensioners, when Labor was in charge..... Get real.!!!!
    Oldie84
    11th May 2018
    3:06pm
    Doesn't anyone get tired of all the old abuses and suppositions? It's the same every year. I can easily predict what will be said by whom, in my 85 years I've seen a lot of Budgets and listened to all the tired arguments trotted out by both sides. It is sooo predictable. Give it a rest old people.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:24pm
    I'd just like to see some honesty, a commodity short in supply these days.
    BundyGil
    11th May 2018
    3:11pm
    Sounds good to me.
    Concentrating on ordinary Australians, education, and health. Not rippIng off essential services to give tax cut money to big business.
    The LNP says that tax cuts will trickle down to workers. This idea was tried by the actor president, Reagan, is the US. Didn't work then or any other time conservative governments around the world trotted it out, and won't work now as any decent economist will tell you, as does the current Australian reserve bank, saying any stimulus from it would be tiny and even that would probably never eventuate,
    Why do you think the Australian economy is in the doldrums and no wages growth? It's because this government keeps ripping money out of the economy with cuts to everything, while squandering money everywhere to their rich mates who tuck money away not spend it, which is the only way to get things moving.
    This government couldn't run a chook raffle.
    Oldie84
    11th May 2018
    3:19pm
    Just out of interest BG, I thought the Tax Cuts are a proposal at this stage? Where is the LNP giving all this money to their "Rich Mates"?
    Just asking.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:32pm
    "Trickle down economics" is a blatant lie to sell ice to eskimos as it were. It has been debunked in the US where it resulted in obscene mega rich on one side and poverty for the rest of the country. The middle class has disappeared in America and is now the working class.
    This is what the rich want here and the Turnbull government is delivering.
    Lookfar
    11th May 2018
    3:17pm
    Adrianus, you are pushing the cliches for the LNP, but they have not proved to be savvy economists, nor have they delivered much of benefit to Australia, sure they got rid of that pesky car industrythat gave those bloody workers their comeuppance, but did it help australia? - no, money spent in Australia stays in Australia, money spent overseas stays overseas, to the detriment of our balance of payments, no, you may 'lol' all you like, but Labour does recognise that basic fact. People argue that the LNP is foreign owned, the LNP argue that they are the avant garde, world citizens, money going overseas is fine, (Hello, but not to poor people) but it is not fine for the Australian economy.
    The Neo-Liberals want to abolish nations, they want an absolute rule of the rich, but is that in the interests of us Australians? not a snowflakes chance in hell it is!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:33pm
    Great post Lookfar.
    Crazy Horse
    11th May 2018
    3:19pm
    Mr Shorten said:

    I will deliver bigger, better, fairer tax cuts for 10 million working Australians.
    I will deliver more funding to public hospitals – that means more beds and shorter waiting times.
    I will deliver 20 new MRI machines in regional centres and outer suburbs that need them – that means 500,000 extra scans funded by Medicare.
    I will get rid of Turnbull’s cap on university places – so middle class kids can achieve their dreams.
    I will abolish up-front fees for 100,000 TAFE places in courses where Australia needs the skills.
    I can deliver on these commitments in government because unlike Malcolm Turnbull, I will not give $80 billion to big business and the banks.
    George
    11th May 2018
    8:35pm
    He should also not give the majority (60%) of $140 Billion tax cuts to the wealthy ($7K+) including himself and other MPs.

    He also HAD TO do something for Age Pensioners such as reversing the changes to Assets test, but he refused to do that too, and has not offered anything else (e.g. assets test could be removed) either! Especially now that there is no Budget Emergency, and there are "rivers of gold" flowing into their revenue coffers.

    No Minimum Tax for Companies and the wealthy evading tax either, and no other measures of significance to stop the revenue leakage!

    Not good enough!
    ndibs
    11th May 2018
    3:36pm
    One thing you can be sure of - the pollys will work out a way for themselves to get better benefits. As to Bill knowing about budgeting - I don't think so. Extortion and getting money under false pretences
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:45pm
    BS. Both parties employ full time people good at crunching the numbers. The difference is in the 'interpretation' pollies decide to use to spin the BS. Did you notice Morrison in his budget speech talk about outcomes in 7 years time. I had trouble getting up off the floor with that, but then he is from the party of lies so I should have been more reserved.
    Lookfar
    11th May 2018
    3:49pm
    ndibs, are you sure you are not just repeating propaganda?
    Please leave the mudslinging aside, Australia is in trouble, we need to fix it and more of the same will only make it worse.
    We have a great future, if we learn to vote out corrupt leaders after their first term and gradually increase the percentage of moral, (- not moralistic) thinking Independants seeking the good.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    5:01pm
    Spot on Lookfar.
    Old Man
    11th May 2018
    3:40pm
    Just a small point perhaps but maybe indicative of Shorten’s clever wording to confuse the listeners. What he is claiming as a bad thing is that the Coalition wants to charge the same top tax rate of $0.32.5¢/$ rate to a carer on $40,000 exactly the same rate as a doctor on $200,000. What that actually means is that a carer on $40,000 will pay tax of $4433.00 (11.08% of income) whereas a doctor on $200,000 will pay $56,433.00 (28.22% of income) or 12.7 times what a carer would pay. Shorten’s budget reply speech suggested that both parties would be paying the same tax.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    3:48pm
    What I heard was a COMPARISON of the two salaries and Shorten stating that it was wrong that the tax paid by each would be the same.
    Please let me know if I have right by going back and listening to the reply. I'm pretty sure I did not misinterpret this. Thanks.
    Sundays
    11th May 2018
    4:33pm
    The Libeal proposal is that by 2024 anyone earning between $41,000 and $200,000 will be in the 32.5% tax bracket. The point being that this is unfair on the lower income earner, and a big win for the higher income earner. What else is new from this Govt. couldn’t care less about ordinary workers!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    4:46pm
    Thanks for the clarification.
    Gee Whiz
    11th May 2018
    4:00pm
    How much worse can he be than the current lot of boofheads?

    Who said a lot worse?

    Well maybe he wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't controlled by the multi-millionaire back room union lackeys, who like the LNP only run government to suit their own pockets.
    Lookfar
    11th May 2018
    4:25pm
    Gee Whiz, I think you are getting confused there, the rich believe they are top, they can't be lackeys, that is the place of the poor.
    whether there are rich union influences or not, there are definitely rich LNP influences, who are all owned by the Mega rich, so what the actual Labour Party is doing may be similiarly constrained, but it has an ideology that the mega rich can not break or it would be obvious, - their influence is constrained whereas with the LNP it is blatant.
    A big fat man running into a party and grabbing all the food from everyones plate will soon be ejected, wheres someone creeping around the edges picking up the leftovers will not be as he does much less harm.
    With the Labour party as long as we keep a strong light on them they will be fine.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    4:55pm
    Which multi-millionaire backroom boofheads are you claiming Gee Whiz? Name one. I am all ears and ready to take that one up.
    If Shorten were being controlled by rich backroom people he would be supporting tax cuts for the rich. He isn't. I think that was made clear last night.
    Knows-a-lot
    11th May 2018
    4:37pm
    Labor is superior to the Lieberal-Hillbilly COALition in every respect. The latter morons think we live in an economy. Labor understands rthat we live in a society. Of course Shorten and the ALP will deliver.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    4:56pm
    I certainly hope so....even if uncle Rupert tries to paint it the other way.
    arbee
    12th May 2018
    11:23pm
    What you mean is that Shorten and the left wingers like yourself and Mick would love to have us all living in a socialist environment
    TREBOR
    13th May 2018
    12:00am
    We do live in a socialist environment - have done for many, many decades.... without that semi-controlled mix of capitalism and socialism this nation would be and have nothing.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:18am
    Make a statement arbee. Refuse to take a pension. Yeah, I thought so.
    All you ever do is slag off at anybody who is not in the 1%.
    Instead of working for this government and trying to pervert our society you might consider getting a non destructive job and doing something which achieves harmony and fairness.
    paulo
    11th May 2018
    5:13pm
    This man and his union owned party could not lie straight in bed. After his history of union leadership which included ripping off his own members, and the lies told at the last election, the medicare one which was believed in good faith and found to be false, just to name one.

    Sorry this man and some of his closet colleagues are of dubious character, and never to be believed. Nothing mentioned about security, nothing mentioned about their plan to increase immigration. Sorry Bill this is not one rolled gold promise we will believe, you have run your race
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    6:51pm
    Lie? Talk about one Tony Abbott maybe. Then you get to real lies.
    I have read the "rolled gold" expression several times today. Clearly this is what you and the many other trolls here today were briefed on. Paid comment from posters I have never seen on this website before.
    Jim
    11th May 2018
    5:13pm
    I see one comment here re the tax paid, and someone who obviously thinks he is an expert on maths, the statement made is that someone on $30,000 pays a $1000 tax and someone on $200,000 only pays the same ammount ie a $1000, how can that be the case, someone on $200,000 pays tax on their income at the new tax rate, the only part that is correct is that the person on the higher income will pay less tax than they currently pay, which will be considerly more than the person on they lower income, nothing like distorting the figures to try and prove an invalid argument. On the case regarding costs for the alternative budget that no idea Bill has come up with, independent analysts have estimated that Bills budget will cost $220 billion more than the Liberals budget, I am not saying that I believe that is true, only that I heard it on the radio, unfortuanately I can't recall which radio station reported it.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    6:48pm
    A post straight from Liberal Party HQ.
    The example above was to highlight what Shorten was getting at: that the person on the (much) higher salary should not be paying tax at a rate which is inadequate. That is the issue and you distortion is to be expected given who is behind you.
    The next game is to claim that Shorten's reply is uncosted? Maybe look at Morrison's figures. BS on BS.
    Shorten has clearly picked up on the $80 billion of taxpayer money this government intends to give away to high income earners. Now account to readers where this $80 billion is coming from rather then playing the shell game.
    arbee
    12th May 2018
    11:26pm
    You are wasting your time Jim, anyone who disagrees with Mick's or any of his cohorts statements must be employed by the Liberal Party according to them.
    They don't realize that people can see straight through Shortens crap.
    TREBOR
    13th May 2018
    12:01am
    To be fair, some can be honestly deluded, arbee.....
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:20am
    And close their eyes where this rich man's government is lying to people, deceiving them and giving the wealth of the nation to the rich who give them electoral donations.
    You are to be pitied arbee.
    sanity
    11th May 2018
    5:30pm
    Shorten says one thing and does another. There is no way ANY VOTER should consider this person (and party) a valid alternative.
    At this time of our history an elected Labour Government next year will set this country back another 40 years. Controlled by the far left, unions and the minorities.
    We need a Government elected next year who WILL make the hard decisions, WILL head us back into a balanced budget, WILL make the call on who does or doesn't fit the model of who lives here that we have established, WILL progress education standards demanding the 3 R's are taught, WILL provide adequate healthcare, WILL implement appropriate law & order, WILL bring ALL people forward and together.
    People must get a little tired of the labour rhetoric.
    What would be nice is if they actually supported some of the actions so we, as a country, meet our obligations together.
    Both major parties need to understand we need strength and honesty - something all seem to find very difficult to accept. Stop the sniggles and eye raising - just say YES to where we are/wish to be, going.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    5:53pm
    Honesty? From this government? Now into Class warfare?
    Your post defies ALL the logic and ALL the facts.
    Personally I'd like to see people post facts and your 'facts' are not real.
    Good luck at the ballot box.
    Meerkat
    11th May 2018
    7:46pm
    You really know when you are making headway when adversaries resort to personal insults! That's all they have left! MICK and OGR were obviously standing behind the door when the smarts were handed out. No wonder Shorten gets away with his disgraceful populist agenda when there are people so disadvantaged! Listen to the arguments, I say, then make intelligent responses, and if you can't, be quiet!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th May 2018
    8:44pm
    You'd best be quiet then, Meerkat, because your responses are far from intelligent. Personal insults? Gee, the pot is calling the kettle black!
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    9:15pm
    I heard Turnbull and a couple of his cronies slagging off Shorten. Says it all. Who needs a PM with such a nasty disposition. Not our wonderful country for a starter.
    TREBOR
    12th May 2018
    12:02am
    Oooh - standing behind the door... what a personal insult!
    TREBOR
    13th May 2018
    12:09am
    You just don't understand English, do you, Meerie...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    8:58am
    Meerkat, clearly I am making headway, given your insults. And clearly you are lacking intelligence, since you've somehow concluded I favour the ALP. If you could read and comprehend, you would know I detest both parties equally and I comment on POLICY. Unlike you, I am not bigoted and I have no party loyalties. I merely assess POLICY on its merits and comment accordingly.

    Pretty clear to any thinking person who was standing behind the door!
    Meerkat
    11th May 2018
    8:00pm
    Heemskerk, Mick is obviously a card carrying member of the big union! May have been dropped on his head when a baby.
    MICK
    11th May 2018
    9:17pm
    I thought you might have been heemsjerk. Your posts are the same. Your party is the same. Smear and vile comments which mislead. Intentionally. Pretty sad you call yourself an Australian.
    TREBOR
    12th May 2018
    12:03am
    heemie doesn't know how to use capitals... different trolls - same origin.
    TREBOR
    12th May 2018
    12:05am
    Hey! Are you ME, Mick? I feel positively disassociated.... considering I think you are in Sydney and I'm hundreds of miles from Sydney... and happy to be there...

    If you are me, Mick - please say so so I can not be so confused..... I'm working without a net here....
    Meerkat
    12th May 2018
    8:03am
    There are none so blind as those who will not see what a populist liar Shorten is
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    1:27pm
    And there are none so blind as to IGNORE the Class Warfare waged on this community (and others), the fraudulent offshore tax shelters designed to evade our tax system and the welfare handouts to the big end of town. Budget repair? What's that other than a justification to screw working Australians.
    I find your troll comments amusing Meerkat. SImilar to the many other new posters in the past 2 days you are following the party 'kill Bill' line. Obvious to all of us, but quite sick and perverse. If you were a real Australian you'd be ashamed of yourself.
    arbee
    12th May 2018
    11:38pm
    Once again Mick, spoken like a true union jerk
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:25am
    Keep it up government sponsored troll. Make my day!
    ph
    11th May 2018
    9:43pm
    I don't quite get this desperate race to the bottom in regard to tax. We are one of the lowest taxed people, I think 3rd lowest, in the OECD. Some of the happiest people, in the world satisfaction scales, are some of the highest taxed. Why are we even thinking about flattening the tax scales? Seems a ridiculous idea to me. I was sorrily disappointed that Shorten decided to play this game in response to the budget. So many survey show that as a population we are more than willing to pay tax to support education, health, and a fair retirement system. Why are out governments refusing to pay attention?
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:30am
    This is a worldwide game ph. The rich are pushing their governments to reduce tax...FOR THEM. Called 'competition' but it is a cartel.
    Don't expect the game to end until people become destitute and revolt. At some time even the mentally challenged will call an end.
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    10:32pm
    I don't need to say anything... it's already said.......
    TREBOR
    11th May 2018
    10:44pm
    Sorry - I withdraw that statement - reading some of this nonsense and utter lack of understanding of economic realities forces me to speak.

    Me sorry....
    ph
    11th May 2018
    10:53pm
    I have no idea what you might have said.
    TREBOR
    12th May 2018
    12:06am
    My son - I have only just begun... read back a bit now....
    ph
    12th May 2018
    12:51am
    I'm curious, where exactly are the 'lefty socialists' in this country? All I can see is 'Center Right', 'Right' and 'Far Right'. We seem to want to emulate all the worse part of United States of America.
    The Corruption Perception Index is interesting,
    "Since 2012, several countries significantly improved their index score, (meaning become less corrupt) including Côte d’Ivoire, Senegal and the United Kingdom, while several countries declined, (meaning become more corrupt) including Syria, Yemen and Australia."
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:29am
    Especially on this website. Out in force pushing the government agenda complete with nasty comments and unsubstantiated smear.
    musicveg
    12th May 2018
    1:54am
    Bill's Budget sounds better to me. I find that my life improves under a Labor government and gets worse with a Liberal government. Having a teenage son I am more supportive of any government that increases free Tafe, and all I have seen the LIbs do is support private business running courses that have ended up with people in debt and useless certificates.
    I feel that Libs may know they will lose the next election and will make it as hard as they can for Labor so they can then blame them next time, maybe that is why ScoMo said in '7 years' there will be tax benefits for some.
    I would vote for any Government who will stop pollie pensions, high CEO salaries and increase Newstart, Youth Allowance and Pensions. Makes me cringe when you hear about Pollie wage increases when they keep the low incomes under the poverty line. Newstart has not increased since 1994, yet cost of living, rents and less job opportunities is increasing crime and violence,yet people are blind to what is happening in our once lucky country. Lucky for very few.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    8:47am
    There will be a lot more OAPs if Labor wins office, so OAPs should start worrying about more calls for cuts because ''it's unaffordable''. The attack on SFRs, stealing up to 30% of their income through the blatantly unfair franking credit policy is going to push tens of thousands to divest and go on the pension. Of course there will be two classes of pensioners - the favoured ''before March 28'' who will keep their franking credits to top up their pension income, and the persecuted ''post March 28'' who will forever more be denied fair treatment (unless a future LNP government corrects the discrimination) and forced to pay the company's tax on any dividend income they receive.

    Neither party deserves an ounce of credit for anything. They are both a mob of incompetent, self-serving, corrupt bastards screwing the people for their own gain.
    musicveg
    18th May 2018
    1:58pm
    OGR, I am not voting for either, I was just saying my life personally has been easier under Labor. Since Turnbull got in, my rent and cost of living has gone up, but my income has gone down, down, down. I have a teenage son who I am supposed to keep giving advice to about the future and I am finding myself saying it won't be easy. I am also shocked at how we have gone backwards on environmental issues too. I am looking at the Sustainable Australia Party but who will their votes actually go to? So very undecided for the next election.I am sure many others are too. They are confusing us more and more with their lies.

    12th May 2018
    5:52am
    Too funny
    No substance snake oil salesman rubs pig oil on himself and writhes his way to yet another political sales pitch
    So sad the ignorant supporters can’t see that every time Shorten tries a populist stunt , it actually flies in the face of one or more of his previous stupid ideas and policies
    Shorten is a lying snake - how many more backflips and bad policy announcements will it take for his ever shrinking support base to realize this
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:27am
    And you are a walking billboard for the government trying everything to be re-elected. Troll!
    Kathleen
    12th May 2018
    10:28am
    There’s no substance in what you have said Raphael, just vitriol!
    What part do you have an issue with? Is it where he says he is not giving billions to companies and banks? Or is where he says he will fund hospitals and schools properly? Maybe it is where he says TAFE will once again be made available to the young and unemployed? I need to understand your motives and mindset. Do you stand for fairness and equality or is your agenda to turn people to your way of thinking which is fairly unclear so you need to be more specific.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th May 2018
    7:24am
    Much as I detest the LNP, I have to agree with Raphael about Shorten, Kathleen. My reason: He's making low income earners pay 30% tax for any company they invest in. High income earners get their franking credits. Only low income earners will have the 30% company tax expense passed on to erode their small incomes. And worst of all, those hit hardest will be retirees who are deprived of any pension benefit, so they are punished twice for having saved responsibly!

    Perhaps what Shorten intends is that low income earners should be banned from enjoying the benefits of investment in Australian companies and only allowed to invest in property, minerals, or foreign companies? In that case, he should stop lying about the revenue gain his policy will achieve - because IT WON'T.

    Or does he intend to find ways to stop low income earners investing elsewhere as well? Maybe he just wants to ensure low income earners stay poor, and no matter how savvy or ambitious, they just don't have the opportunity to improve their situation in life except by somehow magically finding a job that pays higher wages?

    I would really like to know what his motive is, because making the less well off pay for the rich is NOT consistent with traditional ALP policy or claimed objectives.

    My other reason for despising him is that he's a liar. He's making the most absurd and disgustingly dishonest claims about this franking credits policy being targeted at the wealthy (it ABSOLUTELY IS NOT!), and about people getting $2.5 million in cash rebates and paying no tax (ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE, unless by means far more devious and dishonest, and not addressed in any way by changing franking credits so the poor pay company tax).

    If you understood fairness, you would be vehemently opposing this hideous unfairness of saying ''if you already get government payments, you can have more, but if you support yourself on a very low income, you can pay a hefty tax for the rich company you invested in to achieve that low income''.

    If you understood fairness, you would be agreeing that both the assets test and the ALP's franking credits policy are patently UNFAIR.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    12th May 2018
    7:13am
    Retirees with SMSFs will benefit from the budget as their SMSFs will only have to be audited every 3 years which is quite a saving in audit fees.
    TREBOR
    13th May 2018
    12:11am
    That helps.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th May 2018
    7:12am
    And the much more complicated audit will be three times the price, or more! How STUPID can government get! But this is typical of politicians. Pretend to be doing something useful when actually they are doing nothing more than showing their absolute stupidity and incompetence.
    Emps
    12th May 2018
    9:42am
    More 'Rolled Gold' statements from Billy. Unbelievable, literally.
    Lookfar
    12th May 2018
    11:48am
    Emps, one needs to understand that Shorten was installed by Labour as the best defence to Tony Abbot, the master of lying rolled gold statements, but Abbott was discarded by his own party for that.
    Unfortunately Abbot set the tone and like anything negative, it is stronger than positive, so Shorten needs to be seen against that backdrop.
    Your statements are trying to force him back that way, wouldn't it be better to work for the future? - get rid of the incumbents, they have totally missed it, elect Labour, then work from there, Labour will want to stay in power so communicate with them, don't try to refloat the sinking ship, the holes are too big.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:32am
    "Rolled gold"? That is the expression of the day from a number of GOVERNMENT PAID TROLLS in the past few days.
    YLC - please block the trolls from comment. This is propaganda, not a discussion.
    Blondie
    12th May 2018
    11:33am
    Oh, for goodness sake, Adrianus! ENOUGH with the excessive overuse of LOL, although I must admit your deranged, incorrect views, have the effect of making everyone ' Laugh Out Loud'! Ask one of your younger grandkids for a replacement for the old, passé mobile comment!!!!!!!
    Reagan
    12th May 2018
    1:12pm
    ROFLMAO

    yep Adri.anus does have a spelling problem!
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    1:29pm
    WHere are the smilies on this website. Chuckle....

    12th May 2018
    4:08pm
    adrianus stop telling those blondie jokes

    12th May 2018
    4:50pm
    lookfar but not fair maybe you can enlighten me by explaining which of the facts I stated in my comment were lies, untruths, etc or for that matter any hatred I showed towards any persons, contempt may be, but only to those who are attempting to infringe on my right of free speech, as was so shown by you in your reply.
    TREBOR
    13th May 2018
    12:12am
    You didn't make any statements..... just poured out lies and vitriol.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    9:33am
    Vomit is all you get from this government paid poster TREBOR.
    Placido
    12th May 2018
    6:18pm
    I am so fed up with people who continue to harp about Labor and debt when the LNP have put the country into it's biggest debt ever doubling the last Labor debt.

    How can you happily write asbout Labor and debt deceiving yourselves. DELUSIONAL.

    Any fact check easily shows Labor to be the better economical manager of the two parties.

    Turnbull et al are destroying the countries future wasting money on their mates.
    It was the LNP who delayed the FOFA allowing the banks and crooked financial advisers to continue ripping us off!

    We can now see wht the LNP did not want a royal commission into the banks.

    The LNP are stealing our childrens and grandchildrens future.

    So if you wish to discuss debt.. complain about the LNP and their debt otherwise you just look foolish because of actual facts (not Murdoch ones)
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:03pm
    You are missing the point Placido: the sudden arrival of all of these new anti Labor posters is predictable. The right wing (paid) trolls have been sent to destabilise Labor because the next election is getting close.
    Don't be too concerned. Just keep telling the truth and stating the facts. The above cannot respond other than with shallow lie which are easily found out.
    TREBOR
    13th May 2018
    12:13am
    Cut the personal insults, arbee.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    3:31pm
    TREBOR - you can see the trolls by the way they post. Unfounded insults, zero facts, only lies and smear against Labor and its leader. Never changes.
    JAW
    12th May 2018
    6:27pm
    In short, no.

    12th May 2018
    7:08pm
    placido stop thinking government is an opera, liberals leave labor with a thirty+ billion stash of dollars, labor takes over and gambled that amount away and come up with dubble that amount in debt, liberals take over again and placido sings carmen and by doing so expect the deficit to once again become an asset, placido this world is not a make believe opera, please don't teach your children and grandchildren that by just singing their money will change into hard cash, just tell them that by wasting their money no fairy will come and undo the stupidity reckless spending of their money as labor did in the first place.
    MICK
    12th May 2018
    9:05pm
    Here is one in question Placido. Read the BS. This poster is so far right he needs a straight jacket.
    Not really worth the time of day but you'll see me humour the troll occasionally. A bit of fun makes my day.
    Placido
    12th May 2018
    9:15pm
    Heemsker99,

    As I said totally delusional, thank you I needed a good laugh tonight and your post has supplied that.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    8:40am
    Heemsker99, Liberals left Labor with a massive revenue hole by handing out massive tax cuts, concessions and benefits to the wealthiest 20%. Of course, like the current LNP, they made sure THEY didn't have to factor that revenue loss into their accounts. Now ScoMo is setting the scene so that if Labor is elected they will be lumbered with huge obligation that can't be met, but the bigoted unthinking blue-ties will claim Labor managed irresponsibly when paying the debts the LNP created with its disgraceful social engineering to further enrich the wealthy results in more national debt.

    It's called the ''blame game'', and the LNP are experts at it. They do the harm, and then they fob the blame off onto Labor and smirk while they lie about being better economic managers.

    History actually shows Labor to have been better economic managers overall. It also shows that higher taxes resulted in more economic growth - which is why the LNP can't manage well. It's so focused on indulging the greedy rich with tax cuts, and it just can't deal with the fact that you can't get blood out of stones - so revenue will never be boosted by persecuting the less well off (as is their wont!)
    Blondie
    13th May 2018
    2:25pm
    ' Blondie jokes.......calling Ms Gillard, ' Juliar'.....not only LNP trolls on this post, but misogynists also! Wow!How about Turbull's' There will be no Royal Commision into Banks', and, 'We will provide a cheaper, better NBN than the expensive one propose by Labor'......and we all know how well THAT turned out, don't we, using old clapped out copper, instead of the Labour planned fibre TO THE HOME....( not the node!).... and watching the stinking mess uncovered by the Bank Royal commission....no wonder Turnbull Et al tried to prevent it! Now we're stuck with ' Fraudband', speeds slower than Easter Europe....a world laughing stock!! Selective memory is rife on this site, and decent, intelligent people, would be well advised to keep away from it.
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    3:29pm
    I am impressed. Good that a few good men/women to keep the lying bastards honest.
    You might want to look up fibre in Dunedin, NZ. Real broadband at speeds one can only dream about. And it was not expensive. The whole town was done.
    Turnbull will not admit what he has done and it would be pertinent to not let the government walk away from the fraud and betrayal we all now have to pay for. They call this government but it is betrayal which should bring charges. Bring on the federal ICAC.

    13th May 2018
    2:31pm
    So Shorten not to e outdone, comes up with an unsustainable tax package for the middle class.
    The man is dead set on sending the country broke
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    3:24pm
    You have not heard? The government you work for got badly burned in the past few days.
    You can lie all you like about 'unfunded' budget but it is already well established that the tax give away to the wealthy is totally UNFUNDED.
    Sending the country broke? Ha, ha ha. Mention that the government has MORE THAN DOUBLED the national debt with the response they'll give away $80 billion of the country's money to those who have absolutely no need of $1 of it.
    You are an abomination Raphael. Please take some truth serum!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th May 2018
    6:57am
    Howard and Costello sent the country broke with massive handouts to the wealthy. They were just lucky that the boom protected them from detection, and the obligations they created weren't revealed as unaffordable until after they left office. Now Turnbull and ScoMo are doing exactly the same thing. I suspect they think Labor will be in office when the chickens come home to roost, and then the next LNP will once again blame Labor - as will all the blinded blue-tie-wearers.
    Blondie
    13th May 2018
    2:36pm
    ' Thinking is hard......that's why most people ' judge'!(CarlJung)
    Adrianus
    14th May 2018
    8:08am
    That explains the shallow critique. (Adrianus) LOL
    Thinking becomes easy when you are less stressed. You should try it?
    TREBOR
    15th May 2018
    1:49am
    Pot calling the kettle black, Adie - now cut that out and discuss issues or get off...

    You should try that for a change.

    13th May 2018
    2:45pm
    dear old trebor, your treats re complaining to the ylc are leaving me cold, what else can one expect from a self-confessed national socialist like you who's only object in life is to stop free speech and other person's opinions. as for calling me a liar, did not see any of your comments come up with any evidence to the contradictory, ah well the truth hurts!
    MICK
    13th May 2018
    3:20pm
    Ha, ha, ha.
    Your boss is trying to starve the ABC out of existence. That is what silencing FREE SPEECH is all about.
    In case your daily meeting at party HQ has not noticed the government is really, and I mean really,on the nose after its fake budget and how it turned on Shorten. Scum!
    Anonymous
    13th May 2018
    6:24pm
    old labor micky again forgetting to take his placida tablets, his twin waiting to be briefed on an answer, see to-morrow's edition, labor does not work over a week-end unless they can rort the system and be paid ten fold
    Placido
    13th May 2018
    6:57pm
    I thought rorting was the Bank methodology supported by the many ex bankers and finance stooges in the LNP,

    it seems the LNP apologists here can only bluster lie and try to bully not a good look and of course tptally unprincipled , lacking in ethica and even common sense..

    Wealth is a trickle up system, pay fairly and the recipients spend money sustaining the economy and paying taxes for the good of all. The trickle down "theory" is discredited. All that trickles down is down your trousers!
    Placido
    13th May 2018
    7:05pm
    Arbee,
    You are obviously in need of education, all you can manage to do is vomit insults and propaganda. Not an original thought in any of your posts, you must have been raised by heemster's parents, similar attitude.

    Hope you enjoy it when Bill wins Government.
    Kathleen
    14th May 2018
    12:18am
    LNP consist of a nasty bunch of front benchers. Their facial expressions are horrible to watch. They sneer and look down on the cross benchers. Just looking at them is a deterrent to not vote for them. Unpleasant and spiteful!
    TREBOR
    15th May 2018
    1:54am
    Dear old heemie - still struggling to keep up with the issues and the discussion, and relying instead on personal slanging.

    When will you grow up, lad? You seem incapable of understanding that my reference to national socialism doesn't mean I am a National Socialist - or NAZI - just that I put my country first and am concerned over the issues for the majority of the people in it.

    You are as thick as two planks nailed end to end.... and don't know one thing about history or simple reality.

    Now toddle off and find somewhere else to troll... kid.
    brainstraina
    13th May 2018
    8:41pm
    MICK - it sounds like you seriously need a holiday. You have much to say and much of that is erroneous and inaccurate and very much too long-winded to debate on this forum. It would be interesting to watch you debating with Scott Morrison. Should you be capable of open-mindedness, you may learn some facts from him. Good luck.
    Kathleen
    14th May 2018
    12:14am
    You are actually holding up ScoMo as some kind of economic genius?!
    No one should want to learn a lesson from this guy.
    TREBOR
    15th May 2018
    1:55am
    Please Explain, brainstraina?

    A simple assertion without support means nothing, and becomes nothing but a personal attack.....

    Please Explain?
    Meerkat
    14th May 2018
    9:42am
    Don't you just love it when you toss out a bit of bait to the lefties and they take it like a hungry Barramundi! First we are called LNP trolls (of course they are not ALP trolls!!!) then when that doesn't work we are accused of not being proper Australians! Anyone with half a brain should be able to see what happens labor are in power - but I suppose memories of those shocking Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years have now dimmed - so it's now back to class warfare - take from those hard working Aussies who have actually achieved something in life and give it to those who can't be bothered to work.
    Lookfar
    14th May 2018
    1:49pm
    I guess you mean when you toss out a lie or unproved assertion or unsubstantiated gossip, - of course people of good intent will bring you to task and if you had the half brain you claim you would realise that, and also realise that he Rudd Gillard years achieved many things, including reducing class warfare.
    Not sure that you would recognise a hard working Ozzie if he jumped up and bit you, (as he may well do) but as one I can confirm we give to our mates in trouble no worries.
    TREBOR
    15th May 2018
    1:58am
    Well - not LNP trolls - just misguided and misinformed trolls and fellow travelers and useful idiots. You admit to throwing out bait = troll.......

    That about right?

    Done in one...... now give your losing team speech to the sideline commentator...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    8:34am
    Meerkat, in case you are too bigoted to notice, the LNP took from hard working Australians who actually achieved something in life and gave it to people who DID NOT NEED IT AT ALL, while ignoring those in genuine need. The assets test change took countless thousands from people who had done modestly well but were struggling in a low--investment-return environment and gave it to clever manipulators who are now way better off in income terms than those the LNP robbed, but the LNP lied about giving it to the needier, because the poor pensioners with no assets got not one cent.

    Now Shorten and the ALP want to finish the job of demolishing the lifestyles of those who worked hard and saved well, and of course you will accuse me of vitriol and being ''unhappy'' or ''jealous'' and insist I decide ''who I hate most'' in response to an intelligent comment that favours neither side. Because apparently all you are capable of is unthinking allegiance and insulting anyone who disagrees with your bigoted position.
    Adrianus
    15th May 2018
    12:36pm
    Meerkat, you stick your head up with logic and you get slammed around here.
    If the culture of those who worship Labor was to take a step back, and be more concerned with the future, then I'm sure they would think differently.
    As they scream in the streets..
    What do we want?
    We want money for nothing!!
    When do we want it?
    We want it now!!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th May 2018
    9:46pm
    Adrianus, Meerkat isn't talking logic. It's just LNP propaganda. It's getting very tiring, actually, all this party-party BS. Why can't people put their stupid political affiliations aside and focus on policies. Neither major party has any answers and neither is focused on the good of the nation or society. Both a are self-serving. And the bigoted, rude and insulting comments here evidence why we have no hope of improvement.

    Vast numbers of Labor supporters don't want money for nothing - but just want to stop overindulging the rich. And lots of LNP supporters want money for nothing - but only to the rich elite. Stop being a nasty bigot and debate policies objectively and without the rude and insulting comments.
    Blondie
    14th May 2018
    9:15pm
    Yet another misogynistic comment to Kathleen......heemskirk99.....show some respect.....
    Blondie
    14th May 2018
    9:15pm
    Yet another misogynistic comment to Kathleen......heemskirk99.....show some respect.....
    Blondie
    14th May 2018
    9:15pm
    Yet another misogynistic comment to Kathleen......heemskirk99.....show some respect.....
    TREBOR
    15th May 2018
    1:59am
    heemsjerk... respect...... never going to happen.

    15th May 2018
    6:40pm
    blondy another of your blondie jokes, show me where I even mentioned kathleen in these columns, typical of a labor supporter, lying is their second nature and I don't have to repeat that three times!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th May 2018
    4:10pm
    I've seen several comments suggesting that some of the more vocal LNP supporters here are paid trolls. I don't know about that, but if it's true they are letting their employer down badly. Honestly, the rudeness, insults and vitriol here from aggressive LNP supporters would ensure that I could never consider voting for that party under any circumstances. It appears its supporters have no capacity for empathy, cannot treat others with even minimal respect, and haven't the intelligence to debate objectively and acknowledge the failings of the party they support.

    I have no time for Shorten and very little for the ALP, but the LNP is wrecking our society with it's over-indulgence of the wealthy and its cruel attacks on battlers. It's policies are not economically sound. It demonstrates no social conscience at all. Ultimately, I think the only hope for this country is to get rid of both major parties. In the interim, I will be voting for an independent or minor party member whose focus is keeping the bastards honest and who will not be bought. Hard to find? Probably! But I will keep searching. And in the interim, I'll continue to object to the rudeness and bigoted attitudes of the LNP trolls here and elsewhere. Thankfully, though, they are helping to oust the stinking mongrels who present the greatest danger to our society. I am certain there are many others, besides me, whose opposition to the LNP has been strengthened and reinforced by the nastiness of that party's vocal supporters.
    musicveg
    18th May 2018
    2:06pm
    I am also searching for who to vote for, but always worried my vote will end up in the wrong place, more independents and minor parties may or may not help, but I live in hope that changes are ahead.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th May 2018
    3:54pm
    For those concerned about Shorten's franking credit policy - I have just had word from a senior member of the Greens that they believe Shorten intends the policy to ONLY affect those with Trusts. Now that raises the question: Is an SMSF considered a Trust?

    In any case, they are taking it up with Peter Wish-Wilson and demanding clarification, as the Green's position is that they will not support the measure if it threatens to impact people who are not wealthy. That, of course, begs the question of 'what is wealthy'. I don't agree with the Greens definition of ''wealthy'' as it was put forward when the assets test change was being discussed. I think they were totally unrealistic in their assessment at that time. And overall, I don't trust the Greens. But it will be interesting to see what they come back with.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2018
    5:43pm
    Well all superannuation funds are a trusts. There is no denying that.
    Shorten is an idiot and the Greens aren't too far behind them for that award.
    No matter how hard you try, you cannot strengthen the economy and show fairness to all, by implementing laws which have at their core, the prime motivation of ideology.
    My guess is that the wealthy are those who don't qualify for a full pension. I arrive at this conclusion based on Labor's methodology and preference for politics above improved outcomes.
    Lookfar
    17th May 2018
    6:34pm
    Adrianus, you have confused up with down, and tried to smooth it over with lots of false lol's,
    Find some checkable figures or kindly preface your comments with "I believe". - Ta
    Lookfar
    17th May 2018
    6:42pm
    Sorry Adrianus, YLC put an earlier email of yours as your post, - this one has no lol's, but you have conceded a biggie, that ideology has importance, and considering your Neo-Liberal ideology of the Rich are always correct, damns you with you own words, - it will be interesting to see if you can squirm yor way out of that one, I look forward to it.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2018
    12:02pm
    Lookfar, try posting before you raid the liquor cabinet.
    Lookfar
    18th May 2018
    2:20pm
    Adrianus, I did not accuse you of drinking, that is your business, I accused you of coming from just one stuck ideology, and as you didn't answer but instead tried to wriggle out of it by insulting me, I have to conclude that you are indeed stuck in the Neo-Liberal house of dangerous destuctive dreams, from here on, we have to treat you as a little bit mad, because you are stuck and don't know it.
    Lookfar
    18th May 2018
    2:22pm
    destructive.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2018
    8:55pm
    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about???
    Adrianus
    19th May 2018
    8:18am
    "we have to treat you as a little bit mad, because you are stuck and don't know it. "- Lookfar.

    Now look here Lookfar, you don't get off that easily with your cyber bullying.
    I must pull you up on this and call it for what it is. It is the bastion of the weak minded to assume that they are part of a large army of people who think the same.
    Rainey, this goes for you too.
    If your thoughts are the same as the mob then they are of no value to me or to anyone else.
    Lookfar
    19th May 2018
    6:32pm
    Of course Adrianus, the mob, being poor, can not interest the rich, who by their own definition,are clever because they are rich so would never believe the poor, so you yourself have locked yourself into the definition of a Neo-Liberal, those foolish greedies that destroyed Rome, - reminds me of the fall of Singapore in a way, - my father was in the 2nd/19th Infantry reginment that battled their way down the Peninsular to Singapore, - only survivng the well planned Japanese resistance by having volunteers walk ahead, protected as best they could, to draw the Japanese snipers fire, and when they succumbed, as they had to - no force fields in ww2, - a new volunteer would step forward..
    So, with that intelligence and much other, the Australian divisions in Singapore entreated the British commanders to allocate some of the Guns to defending the land crossing, The British commanders sneeringly dismissed all entreaties, - the Ozzies were to them the
    mob, not worth the time of day, Singapore fell, nearly lost us WW2, and never to this day an admittance from the Brits for their f-ng Stupidity, and now you expect us to heed the greedy rich, - as I said, you are to be regarded henceforth as, mad, - perhaps we should go a bit stronger, Barking Mad, - not cyber bullying, just implacable logic.
    Anonymous
    19th May 2018
    8:33pm
    adrianus don't worry about lookfar but not longer than his nose, never read so much b.s, lookafar was not even born during the 1940-1946 era yet he is attempting to tell us what was happening during that time even so-far as us losing the 2ww, I bet you you can't talk japanese I don't, lookfar but not far enough obvious dreaming of what he could have been if only................
    Lookfar
    20th May 2018
    1:40pm
    Heemskjerk, as you should have read it was my Father who was captured in the fall of Singapore, what a nitwit you are and then to accuse me of dreaming, - all humans dream, you might as well accuse me of breathing, Probaly we should put you in the same category as Adrianus?, - up to you.

    20th May 2018
    2:35pm
    lookafar but not further then his nose, keep dreaming up stories so as to keep us entertained alongside with such fantasies as those about your fierce? poodle or was it a little pug, ww2, those rich naughty people etc, you should have become a romancer (storyteller for the unwashed)


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