Power prices decreased as of yesterday, but are still too high

Australian energy providers introduced lower rates as of 1 July.

Your next utilities bill may cost you slightly less, after Australian energy providers put lower rates in place as of 1 July.

But as welcomed as lower power prices may be, the Grattan Institute is warning Australians that high electricity prices are here to stay and is calling on the Government to stop pulling the wool over Australians’ eyes and admit the depressing future of energy costs.

According to a Grattan report released yesterday, wholesale electricity prices have risen by 130 per cent between 2015 and 2017, with household bills increasing by up to 20 per cent in 2017 alone.

The report says that it is impossible to fix the problem, because the price rises have occurred due to issues beyond the Government’s control, such as the cost of running old coal-powered stations, the rising price of gas and coal, and that electricity companies are ‘gaming’ the system by using “their power in concentrated markets to create artificial scarcity of supply and so force prices up”.

Right now, the rate cuts are being hailed as ‘relief’, although they won’t provide much succour from the hip-pocket pain of 20 per cent hikes last year.

However, any relief will be welcomed by age pensioners who are struggling to keep up with power bills, many of whom choose not to switch on a heater for fear that they won’t be able to afford to pay their bill.

While many will be happy with a slightly lower bill, not everyone will benefit. Origin customers in NSW and ACT will see no change to their electricity bill. Origin’s prices in southeast Queensland will drop by 1.3 per cent, while South Australia will see a one per cent drop. Origin gas bills in NSW will drop by three per cent in NSW and stay the same everywhere else.

AGL customers will have their residential rates reduced by 0.3 per cent in NSW, 1.6 per cent in Queensland and 0.4 per cent in South Australia. However, AGL gas prices will increase by 1.8 per cent in NSW and 2.1 per cent in South Australia but will stay the same in Queensland.

EnergyAustralia’s Queensland customers will benefit from a big 3.8 per cent residential electricity rate cut and a 7.2 per cent decrease for small business customers.

In NSW, EnergyAustralia electricity prices will drop by 0.2 per cent for residents, while gas prices will be unchanged. Both gas and electricity prices will remain flat for customers in South Australia.

Residents of states who don’t receive direct rate cuts may still shave hundreds off their power by enrolling in new direct debit savings programs. Some power companies are offering savings of up to 28 per cent for resident who approve direct debit payments.

With many power companies offering slight discounts on rates, others are staying put. To find the cheapest electricity prices in your state, visit CHOICE.

While power prices may drop ever-so-slightly this year, the Grattan Institute says we will never see a large enough drop in wholesale electricity prices to ensure the lower prices we have been used to paying in the past.

“Politicians should tell Australians the harsh truth: high wholesale electricity prices are the new normal,” states the report.

Will you welcome a slightly lower power bill?

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    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    Chris B T
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:35am
    The Problem With High Charges are THE FIXED CHARGES you can't Moderate or Change Yourself by useage of Power.
    Lip service from the Greedy.
    {;=(#)
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:40am
    "You have high electricity prices because of the Carbon Tax" - Greg Hunt. Routinely promoted by the lying right wing media. Completely untrue but run every day again and again. Funny that!
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:23pm
    Correct - costs money even before you use a single watt, and cutting your usage still results in higher bills.

    So much for 'user pays'... and don't forget that every time the cost of power to processing and sale of all goods, including groceries, goes up - so do prices.

    Read blurb on privatisation.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:22pm
    Attacking a government minister - gee, who would have thought that, Mick?? Same old, same old! Change the record Mick, it is broken and boring!
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:24pm
    Quote and interpretation based on facts.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:40pm
    Ever listened to how Turnbull talks about Shorten Big Al. Your hypocrisy astounds me.
    The difference is I quoted whilst Turnbull slurs.
    My credibility is in tact. Yours is not.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:48pm
    Take your own advice Big Al.
    GrayComputing
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:47pm
    OH dear the WEB TROLL AI called Raphael has a serious software flaw.

    The Raphael AI (with broken social code) keeps talking the same nonsense day after day after day.
    Raphael is you AI (artificial stupid) running on a server CPU in the PM's office?
    How can I reboot it into a social problems aware web robot?
    sunnyOz
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:50pm
    Agree with you Chris BT - It is the supply charge that is totally out of control. In April 2012 my supply charge was $21.82. April 2018 - was $120.62. That is a 452.8% increase! Luckily I got solar (only 8 panels) when it was first introduced, and my last three bills have been $72.65, $15.04 and $88.44.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:51pm
    Big Al - your man Turnbull did it again today. The normal sleaze comment about Shorten. What a grub to be so disrespectful and so arrogant. Rich man in action.

    2nd Jul 2018
    9:39am
    Reductions are ok as long as they don’t come at the cost of company profits
    Idiotic clean energy and anti nuclear policies are what’s keeping prices high
    Energy providers should not be forced into providing discounts
    Dallas1955
    2nd Jul 2018
    10:37am
    Crap
    Kathleen
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:32am
    Rubbish!
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:39am
    Total crap from one of the government paid trolls. I can hardly wait for the rest of the pack to arrive.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:24pm
    So companies are entitled to profit at any cost to the end user, who has no rights to cheaper products? so everyone was better off without companies involved?

    Thanks, Rafe - an outstanding reason for zero 'privatisation' into the hands of companies of utilities.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:28pm
    'alternative energies' - like any massive required shift - incur higher start-up costs, and then settle into an established pattern of cost/return.

    Two problems arise - these are being managed by the same 'private companies' and thus derive the same additional costs for no benefit to the consumer - and those who are doing the figures cannot run a long-term business but engage in 'smash and grab' economics, by calculating the costs during start-up as being the bottom line for future profit, regardless of diminishing costs.

    For want of a better term - it's called Greed Economics, and is one clear reason why utilities should never be out of the control of the people via responsible government.... I said RESPONSIBLE government - not self-serving twats with a hand in every private pie.
    HarrysOpinion
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:29pm
    Contemptible statement, Raphael
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:31pm
    Trebor - prices were never lower under government control
    They were artificially held down to appease the masses
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:38pm
    Appease the masses. Please move to Russia, China or North Korea. Your level of ignorance is without equal.
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:31pm
    So it wasn't workers wage bills after all was it?
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:35pm
    Now we appease the multinational corporations and foreign governments who control the grid and the prices.

    Spent $16 billion tax dollars in NSW alone to sell at $11 billion.

    Add to the dismal balance of trade figures.

    All so we can say how bloody marvellous private enterprise is.

    And Origin still isn't paying a dividend.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:18pm
    Rae - Origin share price has gone up almost 50% in 12 months

    Now if thats not a good return, I dont know what is . I'd rather have a 50% capital gain rather than a measly 5% dividend

    ORI will be declare dividends next reporting season
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:50pm
    "Idiotic clean energy"? Only a moron would say that. What do you want? Filthy energy?
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:56pm
    Share price? what about the dividend Rae is talking about?
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:11pm
    Trebor - never mind son , don’t tire your small brain.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:23pm
    At least TREBOR has a brain capable of analysis. You Raphael are brain dead and can only reproduce what you are given on the idiot sheet. Don't know where they find them.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:36pm
    I take it from your reasoning above, Rae - that the dividend Rae will get after a two year drought will be 33.1/3% of current share price?
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:36pm
    Reasoning Rafe - not reasoning Rae... Rae knows what she's talking about.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    6:29pm
    Can’t help you if you can’t read and understand my original comment Trebor
    I have no time for idiots especially lefty idiots
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:24pm
    You mean this li'l ol' comment?

    "Rae - Origin share price has gone up almost 50% in 12 months"

    The difference between a share price and a dividend seems to escape you...... Rae's waiting for a dividend, not a share price.

    If you have no time for those you consider 'lefty idiots' - Vaya Con Dios, Hombre... Adios Muchacho .. Hasta La Vista, Ba-by!
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:37pm
    ORI will be declare dividends next reporting season

    That was my last statement - youre such a dil

    50% cap gain followed by strong profit and dividend declaration in coming years

    consider yourself schooled - now go away
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:53pm
    Ditto Raphael. You have no credibility.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:48pm
    That's nice of them after a two year drought.....

    Is that dividend going to be equal to that 50% increase in share value... i.e. 33.1/3% of share cost or spread over three years now 11% of share value .. or will Rae miss out again?

    If they take three years to pay.. oh, say.... a 3% dividend - that's 1% per annum....

    Son, you simply cannot keep up in class.... and frankly, your attitude sucks.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:56am
    HERE!

    https://www.fool.com.au/2017/01/24/1-reason-the-origin-energy-ltd-org-share-price-has-gone-nuts/

    " As can be seen in the chart above, Origin Energy shareholders have had a very good 12 months, to say the least. However, if we extend our view back five years from today, the company’s share price is down a far less appealing 47%. Ouch!

    So why has the Origin Energy share price rallied this past year? I hear you ask.

    The simple answer: Oil. "
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:49am
    It's a toss up whether to sell the shares and buy solar panels and batteries or to wait for the dividend to once again supplement my electricity bill.

    I must admit to not being a great stock picker. The idea of holding shares for dividend returns is fraught with the danger of poor management stuffing up the plan.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:23am
    I think in the case of a 'captive audience' "business" such as flogging off power (that everyone needs), you will find that it is more a question of those making the decisions copping their excessive remuneration while arranging things, and not giving one damn about their small shareholders, who will never hold one of those positions.

    If they had a long term business plan, as I've outlined before - they would be able to pay a dividend from Year One - instead the 'smash and grab'/'slash and burn' style of 'business plan' mandates that they grab as much as possible for the big shareholders quickly and then bolt.

    Remember that your 'board members' etc who are copping remuneration and perks and outstanding super are all drawn from the ranks of the largest shareholders. They get paid during loss years.
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:41pm
    Depends what company we are talking doesn't it? If it's carbon credits during Goldman Sachs carbon credit play or Murray-Darling water sales during Goldman Sachs Water play then there could be a very real danger of collusion and dodgy goings on.

    Certain Partners of Goldman seem to be turning up all over the place in positions of power.

    Hard to know if Serco or Goldman plan to rule the World.

    Of course it's all okay. Captains of Industry and all. Just so long as we don't have Socialism and actually use taxpayer funds to better the lives of taxpayers everything will be fabulous for the rich and deserving few.
    musicveg
    6th Jul 2018
    1:22am
    Raphael does not want to keep up with the new, just keep on going with the old outdated energy production and keep on polluting the atmosphere. Renewable clean energy is the way of the future and is being rolled out all over the world faster than any other energy. Australia needs to get with the program and this will reduce prices. Only thing stopping it is those invested in oil,coal and gas.
    Ted Wards
    2nd Jul 2018
    10:36am
    My issue is as a single person I use less than the minimum but they say its the minimum they can charge. When I ask why they have no answer I think this is more to do with profit margins than an actual need. If Europe can embrace solar and windmill power, why cant we when we have more sunshine and wind than Europe does. Time to put pressure on the suppliers to be more green and do something about moving away from these more expensive forms of energy.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:32am
    I keep asking why I can have a caravan that is self sufficient but I can't have a house that is the same?
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:45am
    Ted - perhaps ask HOW Energy Australia can offer a 30% discount. If there power companies were doing it tough that would not be possible.
    The reality is that energy is a monopoly which needs legislation to end because the ACCC refuses to do its job.
    Solar is now cheaper than coal. Proven. When batteries come down in price and go up in storage capacity the only option the coal industry and its funded government will have is to either legislate to make renewables illegal or bring in an 'availability' charge to plunder people who do not want coal fired energy. Don't put it past this lot.
    You are correct in pointing to Europe. Clearly the coal industry does not own the EU yet.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:50am
    Mick 30% of what? They all have different prices per kw so you need to work out what is really your cost of power. I worked out 3 companies the other day one with 10%, one with 20% and one with 30% discount. Difference between all 3 was a dollar in the overall bill.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:53am
    Provide the figures OG and who the wholesale supplier is. That way readers can judge if there is a case to answer.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:57am
    Mick there are different prices for electricity depending on where you live. You need to look up what is relevant to you not know what is relevant to me. I'm in a country area supplied by Essential Energy so my wholesale prices would not be relevant to many here.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:01pm
    Mick I actually pay for per month for internet usage than I do for electricity so it's not a big cost to me at all. However it is fun to work it all out from time to time.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:11pm
    Provide your figures OG unless you are fabricating this.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:20pm
    Ha ha do you own research and don't rely on my research that is irrelevant to you.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:38pm
    Aha you ARE fabricating this. Typical.
    HarrysOpinion
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:01pm
    Mick, when it comes to being conned by electricity providers with on time payment discounts, OG is correct. I believe that, providers should be forced to advertise and quote charges per kw/h in dollar and cents which include service charges and gst, just like new car dealers are forced to quote the cost of buying a new car.
    Sundays
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:23pm
    Alinta Energy have moved into Qld offering 30% discount. Like OG we did the math and compared with our current provider AGL. I read bad reviews on Alinta’s billing. Phoned AGL. They matched the price within a dollar. How can they do this for some and not all
    Sceptic
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:36pm
    In this case, I agree with OG regarding the discounts offered. A simple bit of research from you Mick would show that he is correct. It is possible to find big variations between suppliers but they are al int eh basic on and off-peak charges, not on spurious discounts. To keep bleating "show me the figures," when you can quite easily, in this case, do the research is rather pathetic. I have used my historical smart meter readout and presented it to various suppliers for quotes, and the end result, annualised, varied by up to $500. However, that applied to my particular usage, which will not apply to others. There are many factors to be taken into consideration, including life support system discounts as well as pensioner discounts, etc. By the way, you are correct in that solar is cheaper than coal Mick, as my rooftop PV system supplies free electricity during the day, but unfortunately none at night. Even on sunny days during the day for part of the time I have to call on the grid (cooking and boiling a kettle at the same time for instance), and of course at night it supplies zero. The result is that it is more expensive to supply solar and wind as there always has to be 100% of the alternative methods of generation available to cover the down times.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:50pm
    HS - I was simply asking OG to put up or shut up. He refused to put up the information so I can only think it might be non existent.

    Sceptic - The information is available. Not exactly in your face but available.
    If OG wants to make statements he needs to provide a bit of proof. You will note I frequently provide figures. Like the other day...
    Labor debt left - $147 billion
    This government's debt - $551 billion as of 2017. Now likely > 600 billion.
    Ok accuse me of changing the subject. Just making my point.
    Your 'news' about rooftop solar is of course correct but as normal you have twisted the discussion. The talking point is about the generation cost of solar not when it is available. It is already cheaper than coal and still dropping. Maybe you need to tell party HQ about that!
    For the record batteries will be the end of the coal industry. Even this crooked government cannot stop that unless it introduces martial law and forbids the use of renewable energy. Don't put it past them.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:53pm
    The hot air coming from the Lieberal Party trolls here would be a viable alternative energy source.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:25pm
    Yes Knows a lot, but is is poor quality and unreliable.
    travelman
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:15am
    There would be no energy problems if 19 million Australian homes had solar. They would have free energy and return 68 billion kw back into the grid every year. The cost of solar installation per year would be less than the costs people are paying energy companies now and that installation cost would be paid off in five years and then energy costs would be in the past. We can consign coal and coal fired power stations into history where they belong. We could also in 2019 consign this government into history where they belong. Coal is just a scam by the big coal industries and 32 European countries are in the process of proving that fact - they are making coal obsolete.
    Kathleen
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:31am
    So agree! Why on earth aren’t people all doing this? Solar on every roof in Australia including businesses is what the aim should be. Coal is dirty and we shou,d not be holding it up as clean and needed.
    Maybe people need to take control by putting it on their own roof!
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:31am
    If every home had solar it would be a disaster as it isn't available 24 hours a day and you need base load power as well. You can also only put back into the grid what can be used locally. So if everyone has solar and producing too much the grid won't take anything so it is wasted. We need coal, gas or nuclear powered stations for when renewable energy is not available.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:49am
    travelman - until batteries become the norm we cannot remove fossil fuel energy but can only reduce it. When batteries come in the game is over.
    The real question you should be asking is WHY the Howard LNP government allowed the world's third largest LNG deposit to be sold to foreigners. And then ask why the Turnbull government is allowing our FREEHOLD farming land to be sold to foreign governments. The word TRAITORS comes to mind but the betrayal of us all goes on.
    Oh yes, the point of the above ramble: "we have no gas". Unbelievable. And the media never prints!
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:52am
    The ability to export gas was a game changer for Australia. It meant no more cheap gas as we were now part of the world gas supply and they could charge world prices for our gas. There is plenty of gas but no more cheap gas.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:16pm
    OG - fake news!

    Exporting some gas is totally different to flogging off the lot. Why do you think we are having the discussion about fracking? Not one molecule available for Australians. That is the reality. Caused by Howard and his cronies. Now they do not for all intense purposes even pay a royalty.
    Australia betrayed by a Coalition government. Next cab off the rank will be food because our freehold farming land is up for grabs and being flogged to foreign governments.
    Please explain the wonder boom we are endowed with when we have no cheap and abundant gas and are hungry????? Write all the right wing crap you like but the facts are there is Australians care to look rather than self indulge and leave the politics to others.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:41pm
    Neighbours just had a 6kw roof system installed with 13kw of battery..... fully charged batteries are sufficient to see them through night time usage and the daytime is less anyway so some of the roof goes into the batteries.

    Excess goes into the system at a rebate/refund rate, while they are still connected it costs them connection fees.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:55pm
    I pay less than the connection fees already with no batteries so I can't see the sense in paying out tens of thousands for batteries that make no economic sense.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:26pm
    I wouldn't raise the subject of gas in the context of 'privatisation costs' and 'the global economy..... gas is one perfect reason to disavow the global economy and take control of our own marketing of our own resources.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:26pm
    Correct TREBOR.
    Oldie84
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:46am
    We never have cheap Electricity again until we have new High effect coal and or Nuclear power stations. Generating all needs from Solar and Wind is pure nonsense. No one ever mentions the enormous subsidies paid to Renewables and their short lifespan. Just work out how much has to be generated by the turbines to offset their energy use in production and installation, like 300 ton concrete foundations. Give me a break....
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:47am
    Wind turbines will never over their lifetime generate enough electricity to cover their initial cost and installation.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:52am
    What a total load of crap Oldie84. Perhaps when you are sitting in 45C heat every summer you will wake up. Until then I make the prediction that by 2050 renewable energy will be a no brainer. Of course you will be dead by then, me too, but the legacy of those who share your view will have done its damage. Sad.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    11:54am
    Mick who cares about 2050 as it wont make electricity any cheaper now.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:39pm
    Your grandchildren. Only creeps and monsters destroy that which sustains them and future generations OG.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:43pm
    Batteries next door are warrantied for twelve years, and the roof cells for twenty.
    Oldie84
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:03pm
    Well Mick right now I am freezing. But more to the point: the debate is totally of the rails. Just look at it with common sense, the economics do not stack up and only make things worse. Just look at the praise Sweden? got for dealing with its waste, it burns it. How is that, getting rid of your waste and pumping more Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere. Our Grandkids will still need jobs and make a living.
    Not exporting our work not Countries that merrily build Power Stations whilst we shut ours down.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:18pm
    Gee I don't even have a jumper on at the moment as it is quite warm here today.
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:42pm
    Yes OG we should all just move up north and away from the high country. That'll fix it.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:31pm
    Mick, do us all a favour and move to South Australia - you seem to be on their wave length! Hopefully that way, with the unreliability of that states power system, the rest of us will be spared your BS and one trick pony mantra - 'all left good - all right bad!' You will be happy in your power - less society, and the rest of us will only occasionally have to put up with your drivel! (When the wind blows!). And for the record, I have had a solar system on my roof since 2009.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:52pm
    The failure of the SA power supply network was placed to a gas-fired generator that didn't kick in on demand.... had nothing to do with renewables.

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/final-report-reveals-the-causes-of-south-australias-statewide-blackout/news-story/d5499231749c6a858cdc3b4a78f5c7e1

    "While the Federal Government was keen to blame the state’s reliance on renewable energy for the blackout, AEMO said two tornadoes were the likely cause of five electrical faults that happened before the network went down.

    The state was left without electricity for hours when the tornadoes brought down three major transmission lines in the state’s north.

    But AEMO’s investigations found nine of the state’s 13 wind farms did switch off because they were unable to withstand voltage disturbances."

    Same thing would have happened with any generator trips set th that setting... not one thing to do with overall renewable supply in any way.
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:13pm
    My power was out for 8 days after the last storm in NSW and my daughters for a fortnight. We still had AUSGRID then and they were marvellous. I hate to think what will happen next time when all these private companies have to sort the mess out.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:55pm
    Oldie84 - me too. But only because it is an overcast day. Any other day we'd be using the heating for free rather than exporting to the grid or using coal fired power. You should be conscientious enough to do the same or join OG in Queensland and cook in summer.

    TREBOR - have a think about the hottest summer on record in South Australia 2018. No power outage. Because they now have storage batteries. This is why councils and businesses around the country are going it alone and installing same.
    For my part batteries are still not worth the investment and for now I'll use clean energy of a day and supplement with a bit of dirty power of a night. Not for much longer. Just give me an excuse to get off the grid!

    2nd Jul 2018
    12:02pm
    If people want to install solar in their houses , please do so but at market prices. Taxpayer should not be subsiding solar panels
    Until and unless wind and solar are profitable for energy companies to invest , any government forcing these companies to invest should compensate for the loss in profits through tax incentives and/or subsidies
    Why should investors pay for dumb green policies
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:19pm
    More of your government BS.
    ALL NEW INDUSTRIES are subsidised. That's how you get them going.
    Solar rebates have been coming down for years and in a couple of years it will be gone entirely, as it should be.


    Solar generated energy is now already cheaper than coal. But you know all that. Please collect your weekly pay cheque and stay on coal fired electricity when everyone else has moved. Of course YOU will be the normal hypocrite you are and take the cheaper energy anyway. What a type!!!
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:22pm
    Mick solar energy is very expensive at midnight. It is also so unreliable too. Have you seen the new IPART submissions? They wont to pay different rates for solar at different times of the day. I was thinking about a wind turbine hooked into my solar to take advantage of the midnight rates for solar.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:41pm
    When batteries come online your post will be shown for the right BS it is. Why did South Australia put in batteries. No problems there now....but not a mention from the right wing coal supporting media.
    Why are local government and companies doing likewise? Obvious.

    Maybe post your fake news and misinformation in the Telegraph OG where it will fit in perfectly.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:43pm
    At midnight most houses have the fridge running and maybe a heater. I turn heaters off when I go to bed, since it is warm as toast all wrapped up.
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:48pm
    Batteries are arriving even now MICK. A friend had one installed recently and loves the reliability. No more blackouts. We have a lot of blackouts here.

    I chose to buy Origin shares instead but they can't be doing too well as they stopped dividends for the past 2 years.

    Privatising a monopoly is a very dumb idea.

    I don't use a lot of power. It's not the money but the idiocy of selling off a public owned utility to foreign control and wondering why you are then subsidising foreign industries power bills.

    The LNP and ALP are dumb and dumber.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:01pm
    I have a generator for backup power so I have no more blackouts too.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:27pm
    Polluter - hope you are paying your pollution taxes....
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:55pm
    I also have a wood fire. I create enough wood on my block to keep me warm in winter.
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:16pm
    Yes OG. I have gas hob, woodier stove and lots of kerosene lamps here. I'm thinking of a generator for the fridge and freezer soon as we have a lot of trees and the storms seem wilder each time.

    The lines are often brought down around here now.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:29pm
    We have a portable Honda 2kva that runs our lights and fridges etc during blackouts. I can also use the fridge and stove in caravan which run on gas.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:31pm
    We cooked dinner for a couple of guests one night and as soon as we served it the power went off. So we picked up our dinners and went and ate it in the caravan. Those guests still talk about it as they enjoyed it so much.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:58pm
    Rae - yes I k now Tesla have a cost effective 15 kwh battery. This is about what we consume a day so it would work because we generate multiples of that except in winter when we would break even. The solution is more panels again. Done!
    At present I cannot justify $12,000 just for a battery but I am informed that a price war will happen soon as the market keeps growing so sooner of later I'll be in.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:40pm
    I was considering refurbishing an old three storey house in France, and adding solar plus wind generator power into batteries, along with solar hot water. A bit 'ard in Winter when it snows, though, but I'm sure the back-ups from wood fire heating of water would help, and remaining attached to the mains supply gets you over the humps.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:55pm
    Have a look at the property taxes on foreigners before you sink money into France TREBOR.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:50pm
    Yes - and the cost of employing local CRAFTSmen - not tradies... and the requirement to do so - Uncle Pierre can replace your roof for five times the going cost and you MUST use local craftsmen who know the ropes etc.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:21pm
    Power prices will never go down in real terms under a 'privatised' distribution system, for the simple reason that duplicating providers with all the incumbent extra costs of duplicated staff, facilities, shareholders, overpaid CEOs etc, and board members overpaid to billy-oh for nothing etc.

    It is simply not possible to replace a 'one-shop stop' with a multitude without raising the general cost of supply.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:25pm
    We have gone forma model where no one made a profit to a model where every one wants to make a profit at all levels. That's why electricity is more expensive today.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:27pm
    Competition always drives down prices
    Basic economics
    Unless of course government policies (read labor) seeks to prevent true competition
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:29pm
    Under government controlled utilities sector, the only way prices can be kept below market is through taxpayer subsidy
    What you get in lower electricity prices you pay for elsewhere
    Just becuse it’s invisible to you doesn’t mean you’re not paying for it
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:43pm
    And remember TREBOR that privatised industry is after returns. As much as can be milked out no matter if honest or otherwise.

    We do need governments to limit price rises. Under the current rich man's government that is not going to happen. Ever.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:44pm
    The original shareholders - the public - made a profit every year in lower prices, OG.. and have received only higher costs due to the caretakers selling off the utility without the consent of the shareholders.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:47pm
    If competition had driven down prices - why are we paying much more now - way beyond inflation rate.

    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/privatisation-pushed-australias-electricity-costs/

    "Too often we assume that private and corporatised state-owned corporations are operating efficiently. In the real world such as in the Australian economy where the checks and balances are imperfect and companies exercise considerable power…

    Electricity is now management heavy with a blow out in the number of managers relative to other workers. In addition electricity now employs an army of sales and marketing and other workers who do not actually make electricity."

    Read it and weep, supporters of private enterprise as the be-all and end-all of everything.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:49pm
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ScreenHunter_20269-Jul.-28-10.02-660x381.jpg
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:50pm
    Trebor you poor delusional leftie
    I’m sure every utility company, bank and manufacturing company made enormous profits in Russia, China and Cuba as well under communism
    Oh yes and of course at extremely low prices
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:51pm
    "Adding up the additional labour costs of the new functions under privatisation, corporatisation and marketization and adding the costs of allowing returns on fictitious capital and retained profits we find that the additional charges are likely to be of the order of $404 to $502 per household per annum…"
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:51pm
    Demolition complete.. mission accomplished... Ham and Jam.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:54pm
    So any view based on hard facts and figures is delusional, Rafe? You poor deluded fool...
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    12:58pm
    You're comparing Australia Past with Russia, China and Cuba under communism?

    Please explain why such a stance is not delusional.

    I'd like to see a full rendition of how Australia was formerly - pre-privatisation with all its claimed benefits - the same as Russia, China and Cuba (etc).

    Please explain?
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:57pm
    Good analogy TREBOR. Privatisation of public assets is exactly the selling off of taxpayer shares for no return to the taxpayer.

    Even now taxpayer funds are being used to build infrastructure, airports etc for private companies. No complaint about that from the free marketeers.

    It's as close to theft as you can get but legislated into being.

    Russia, China and Cuba have cheaper power now than we do here because they aren't paying a bunch of management over the odds and shareholders as well. We are actually subsidising Chinese power through the high prices we pay to Chinese owned power companies.

    Dumb and Dumber.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:54pm
    I doubt macrobusiness.com.au is a 'deluded leftie' organisation.

    (victory roll over airfield).......
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:03pm
    Raphael - you really are a halfwit mate. Sorry but you bring it out.
    YOU know full well that Russia is a democracy in name only and that Putin and a few of his cronies are making money and nobody else is.

    Rae - TREBOR is correct. Whenever something is spun off the lifeblood is sucked out of it and consumers pay more. Industry Superannuation Funds are now in the firing line from the Turnbull government. The reason given is union representation. The real reason is the big end of town wants its own in charge to milk the funds. A work in progress.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:32pm
    MIck - your inability to understand basic first year economics means it any not worth my time trying to explain anything to you
    Stick with your lying labor rhetoric
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:51pm
    If you mean I do not agree with your right wing propaganda then I agree.
    If you mean I have you by the short and curlies then that is a victory for decency.
    The last bit just cracks me up. LIES? That is the modus operandi of the current government. Lie on lie on lie. This lot could not even lie straight in bed. Or as your ex fuhrer was reported as saying 'if you just repeat the same lie long enough people will accept it'. Sorry, I won't.
    In terms of intelligence you would not survive in the same room as me Raphael. Your posts reek of being a halfwit. Apologies for the serve but I have about had enough of the crap you serve up as informed comment.
    What do you think TREBOR?
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:45pm
    Rafe - your economics ability seems to be limited to the assumption that competition will always generate lower prices - perhaps so in an open field - but not in what is essentially a closed monopoly spread around to a few 'companies', who function as an oligarchy and front their benefactor (the Guv'nah) regularly with cap in hand and cry poor so they can further dispossess the poor.....

    Read below - since the Gu'vnah is a primary shareholder, the Guv'nah will not refuse rises.

    Wow - 0.2-0.3% reduction in NSW! Think I'll turn on all the big lights and throw a huge party all night.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:56pm
    Yeah TREBOR. He's been reading too many primary school books on economics. Noddy and Big Ears by the sound of it. Chuckle.....
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:51pm
    I studied Economics, but I'm way past the simple stages and well into the Dark Universe stage....
    KSS
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:17pm
    "..... price rises have occurred due to issues beyond the Government’s control, such as the cost of running old coal-powered stations, the rising price of gas and coal, and that electricity companies are ‘gaming’ the system by using “their power in concentrated markets to create artificial scarcity of supply and so force prices up”."

    What? So it has nothing to do with the ridiculous Paris Agreement targets then? Nothing to do with the expensive and unreliable move to renewable sources when base load is not in place and can't be matched? Nothing to do with the expensive subsidies given to renewable energy architects? Nothing to do with the shortfall of Australian resources locally caused by shipping most of the product overseas at really cheap prices allowing the purchaser to generate electricity far cheaper than Australia? Nothing to do with closing coal fired generators before a reliable cost effective alternative is in place? Nothing to do with having to repurchase gas to prop up the depleted domestic market because of the gas companies failure to ensure enough domestic supply? Nothing to do with the refusal to even contemplate nuclear energy?

    Well that's alright then. Just so we know. I'll spend the next month or so planning how to splurge the approximately 54 cents I will 'save' on my next electricity bill so I don't spend it all at once or in just the one place. If I save all the reductions, in about three years I should be able to splash out on a cup of coffee!
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:01pm
    Well said KSS and so true.

    The gas fiasco is a stunning bit of stupidity or treason.

    You'd swear Dumb and Dumber are working for foreign corporations.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:32pm
    Yes - well put, KSS - be aware of your orientation on those issues and how they impact on Australia.

    All the 'righties' here love to accuse me of being a 'leftie' ... since when is an ardent nationalist a 'leftie'? Putting this nation and its people first these days makes you a deluded leftie, it seems..... let's stir heemie into a semblance of life (Igor - hit the third switch) - it's more of a national socialist position.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:45pm
    Those issues may be beyond government control now - but they were part of the planning for the policy introduction, so there is no way out of responsibility of government for cost increases due to their policy.

    Their 'think tanks' would have known from offshore experience and previous experience with roads and such that cost sky-rocketing was inevitable, and for the same reasons - funding lavishly the lifestyles of themselves, families and cronies.

    Government 'share-owning' in these 'ventures' is just another way of milking revenue from the consumer public without being accountable, and the further reality is that they have indemnified their mates from fiscal disaster (no matter how created) by guaranteeing the 'contracts' handed out in the 'privatisation' process.

    Worst case scenario is that a 'company management' self-destructs the 'company' Gordon Gecko style (does a Rodney Adler), while those responsible retain their pay and their assets accrued and their 'super' scheme, and the government bails them out by paying out their contract to the tune of several billions. The only losers in such a situation are the real investors and unsecured creditors, who may have been foolish enough to give money to these pirates.

    It follows then that in order to protect its own 'share-holding' and to forestall any 'collapse' that will cost billions - the government is tied by chains of gold to any cost rise demands put forward by these 'privatised ventures'.

    Also - similarly to the cancers of affirmative action and a few other things that have invaded the body corporate of Australia - this form a cancer is near impossible to remove without killing the patient - and was designed that way, like some virulent computer virus that will destroy the host if the host tries to remove it.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:05pm
    KSS - originally it was about upgrading the poles and wires so that the asset could be flogged off. That was when Greg Hunt was bleating his propaganda into the right wing media microphones multiple times a day...and getting it to air. What a surprise....."You have high electricity prices because of the Carbon Tax". Remember it well, and the dumb public bought it.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    6:07pm
    Aye - The Dread Privateer Blackbaird......
    Circum
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:55pm
    Spot on KSS
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:29pm
    Remember those yellow signs on the power poles that warned us this would happen. They did not lie. Privatisation that demands excess profit and also many retailers all needing CEOs and offices and whole teams of salespeople will always cost more and more and more.

    Wasn't it great when we owned and operated our own power providers?
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    1:53pm
    Don't tell me about it I got abused during last state election by Liberal supporters as I dared question them about their statement that power would not increase.
    Rae
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:10pm
    Yes OG. Dumb=LNP and Dumber=ALP. Stupid mistake after mistake costing everyone but the very wealthy far too much of their hard earned.

    People are getting angrier about all these price rises for no good reason other than mismanagement.

    And the power stations are going to ruin from lack of any proper maintenance.

    The RWNJs can fuss all they want about wage bills but the inability to manage power or prices is the real reason Industry is bailing out of Australia and it's a damn shame in a country with huge supplies of coal and gas and iron ore and lithium etc etc. We can't even keep the smelters running and that was something primitive people managed back in the bronze age for crying out loud.

    Rant over but I am really disgusted at the stupidity of it all.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:34pm
    Drove through Kurri Kurri Saturday on way to Hunter Valley Wine Festival (I was the driver) - smelter not operating.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:47pm
    I recall seeing demonstrations in Canada against the 'global economy - and thinking then what a rabid bunch of leftie rat-bags they were..... how wrong I was......
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:07pm
    Information is suppressed but occasionally seeps through TREBOR. But don't expect the truth to be routinely aired like the blatant lies.

    2nd Jul 2018
    2:12pm
    Back when electricity supply was state owned in NSW, the government of the day added a charge to cover the actual supply, not the cost of electricity but just for the privilege of having electricity supplied. When all of these different suppliers came into the picture, that insidious government grab for money for doing nothing has persisted and is current $0.88¢ per diem. Does any of this ever get looked at by those responsible for "keeping the bastards honest"?
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:22pm
    Old Man they used to charge extra for the first so many units so that charge was in the rates. They then took it out of the rates. I know this for a fact as I wrote the computer program to change it over to a separate charge. They also had a tolerance on that charge in that if your bill fell with in a range of days it was the same. However that was deemed wrong and it had to be then billed on the actual number of days. The tolerance was used as it was simply easier for people to work out their bills. However the do goodies though otherwise.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:35pm
    It was still cheaper by orders of magnitude, OG,... can't deny that.
    codger
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:26pm
    you all know the real reason for high power prices. The rotten state govts. that put the chance of a few extra dollars to help their election promises than the needs of there electorates, and of course they were liberal govts. that sold out to the greedy private enterprise
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:11pm
    Agree. How did you vote at the time? Did you care? Most Australians were too apathetic to vote the government which did this out..........although that was before I became aware of what sort of a system of government I was living in.
    Not a Bludger
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:33pm
    What a load of old cobblers!
    Solution simple - just use the resources gifted to us by God and build modern coal fired electricity generating stations - to repeat the meerkats - Simple.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:44pm
    The only difference between coal and solar is that one is millions of years old.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:47pm
    .. and the other is billions of years old and counting....
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    2:59pm
    I've long said that modern technology could surely clean up coal-fired power - the thing is that such moves would necessitate massive 'start-up costs' the same as 'alternative energy' is doing now.

    That would include building a network of new stations or spending heaps on upgrading existing ones .... the short term costs of upgrading may be less, but in the long term (remember my discussion of long-term business planning as opposed to slash-an-burn), the overall costs would be higher.

    Running 'renewable' construction alongside new fossil construction costs would be astronomical.

    Footnote:- In my WW IV series, after petroleum has run nearly dry - the prime source of energy is coal again... with modern tech to clean it up a lot.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:00pm
    Damn - that looks like SLASH AN BUM - should read SLASH AND BURN.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:14pm
    You remind me of Easter Island Not a Bludger. Some dh cut down the last tree. Likely spouting the same sort of sentiment you are expressing.
    Just out of interest sake have you been feeling the summers getting hotter every year? I have...and the BOM has confirmed it.
    Tell about meerkats.
    Not a Bludger
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:15pm
    You, Mick, have obviously never been to Easter Island - I have - and, no, few trees ever grew there.
    But, as to coal, Victoria alone has 300 years of reserves, thank you God (now more, since the lunatics forced the closure of Hazelwood) plus all that in the rest of the country.
    And, no - the average temperatures in recent years have been stable to down.
    The only warming is seeing what complete twerps like you and your union, thug mates keep trying to foist on we, the majority.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:00pm
    I'll have to agree that I have never been to Easter Island......but reports indicate there was once a forest there. Now not one tree.
    You must be a nitwit Bludger. The last 16 years or so has seen year on year 'the hottest year on record' and you post right wing and coal industry propaganda? And then you roll into unions?

    Go get tomorrow's orders from your pathetic dictatorship. Sad. Really sad.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    10:52pm
    Yes Mick
    There was Once a rainforest in the Middle East
    Now they have tons of oil
    travelman
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:17pm
    Hi Thanks for all your emails but many of you want to talk to others who have solar panels, they don't have batteries, that's one expensive cost gone, you can pay off your solar costs including installation for much less than your bills currently are. Panels have a twenty-five year warranty, converter 15 year warranty and that's it and after 5 years you own the lot. By the way I did my research and it's true. Those who have it don't pay energy bills and in summer produce more energy than they use and they sell to the grid at $0.16 for every kwatt. Now for you loonies who don't understand, tough, I get will back to you all again in a few months down the track to tell that I am saving money. By the way, I am not on this planet to make others rich and be a slave to this government. Next year, vote Labour if you are sensible, they gotta be better than the goons we have now. So you nay sayer's, eat your hearts out.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:21pm
    vote labor and sell future generations to poverty.
    no thanks
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:00pm
    How so, Rafe? Give us the details................
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:17pm
    Poverty? That is what the current government is creating. Hospitality Workers hit the other day. Other industries coming. Tax cuts for the wealthy and tax increases coming for the rest of us.
    You are using the coalition propaganda tool Raphael: whatever the opposition is saying accuse them of the same. As with the trolls on this website never any proof. Never chages.

    Vote liberal and become a slave. A work in progress coming soon.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:34pm
    Unemployment at all time low
    Economy going gangbusters

    The middle class has never been wealthier

    Labor debt is being paid down and will be paid in full by 2025
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:54pm
    Ha ha ha ha. You crack me up dear troll. Labor debt was $147 billion and your employer has run up the tab to over $600 billion.
    So you reckon the debt will be repaid? Is that the Labor debt or yours?????
    For the record debt which keeps going up NEVER gets repaid. If interest rates go up that is game over.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:54pm
    Is that the same middle class that is concerned about being removed from the table and the field left to big corporations and the poor who work for them part-time casual?

    Unemployment is as high and under-employment is on the rise.

    Liberal debt will never be paid down.

    https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook45p/DebtPosition
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:03pm
    Correct TREBOR. The coalition governmetn does not care about the debt and spends like a drunk sailor. It will never be repaid.

    Why are the media stories on this? I recall when Labor was in it was every night. Please explain right wing media. Who are you acting for?????
    ABE
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:55pm
    .Raphael
    2nd Jul 2018
    Labor debt is being paid down and will be paid in full by 2025

    Is that right Raphael?? And where did you get that reassurance? Let me guess, Noddyland Times??

    .
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:10pm
    I recall the party front bench has been making these mutterings...based on nothing other than hot air. Paid stooge here to repeat same.
    Circum
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:11pm
    Whats Raphael on?I want some.
    bob menzies
    2nd Jul 2018
    3:33pm
    we can have lower energy costs now if:-
    get out of Paris Agreement
    eliminate all renewable subsidies immediately
    build 2 new HELE coal fire power stations (nearly 900 are scheduled for build over next 8 years)
    government to demand a minimum 15% of all gas to remain in Australia for domestic use
    encourage more gas and CSG exploration
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:22pm
    The post of traitors.

    Your Howard government let the third largest LNG deposit fall into foreign ownership. Betrayed. It then did not reserve any for Australia. Betrayed again. Now we get almost zero return because world prices have been pushed down. Betrayed a third time.

    Renewable energy is already cheaper than coal. A proven fact.

    Encourage fracking???? So you want to allow your mates to destroy aquifers and poison ground water like they did in Queensland? I don't know what sort of a person does this as the solution to betrayal in the past.
    Bob - I feel sorry for you mate. Not sure if you an Australian any more.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:56pm
    I think fracking still needs a close look and the way any gas is marketed needs an even closer look.

    Even if the gas is kosher, the marketing is totally off kilter by being offshore.
    bob menzies
    2nd Jul 2018
    6:46pm
    Mick,
    I was one told by a medal of honour winner in USA that to be an American you have to serve your country, your community and your church. Not bad. I have done all 3 in Australia.
    renewable energy is not cheaper than coal - you have been drinking the "Kool aid".
    I understand your concern about fracking Mick and I would never condone it around agriculture, equestrian, towns BUT there is opportunity in middle of NT that should be explored.
    WRT to 3rd largest LNG falling into foreign ownership - would not have mattered who was in power. Sone of the gas problems we have occurred during Rudd/Gillard time (but I hasten to add I suspect it would have occurred with Howard/Abbott/Turnbull)
    Comments like "traitors" "un-Australian" are unhelpful to the debate.
    There are several leading scientists who suggest this is the way to go.
    The current Chief Scientist has said the we are having zero impact on world emissions but it is costing this country in excess of $3b a year.
    In 1997 77 IPCC climate scientists said climate change was real - sine then 5 have now said they got it wrong.
    Trump has opened coal mines and got out of Paris and my friends over there say that there costs are 58% lower than ours.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:30pm
    Yes agreed that the party in poor would have made little difference to The Big Sellout.

    Those in Gu'ment failed to serve country, community or god....

    I'd venture to say it's costing the country far more than $3bn - the opportunity loss associated with offshoring production is far greater than that.... probably larger than the 'economic deficit'.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:30pm
    Party in power .. party in power.... damn you....
    floss
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:21pm
    Lower power prices under a Liberal Government I don't think so . There is no need to have as many different companies as we now have .What up Big Al can't you stand the truth that Mick speaks.
    Anonymous
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:36pm
    There will be no lower prices under labor
    Only tax increases
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    4:57pm
    There will be an end to wealthy Australian money handouts and an end to pushing hard working citizens into abject poverty.

    You post lies Raphael. Go collect your pay cheque and I hope you choke on it.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:57pm
    Don't forget that according to the Sydney Moaning Herald any failure to cut company tax is a tax hike.... and any failure to give workers a pay rise is not a pay cut.....
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    7:31pm
    Explain these tax increases, Rafe.... I like my students to outline their issues before dismantling them .... the students that is....
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:05pm
    I saw that TREBOR. What a stunt. From the same low life dishonest government hanging onto power like a leech onto its host.
    micreen
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:25pm
    I have sought advice off the advertiser on Life Choices, Energy Australia, and they claim that my pay on time discount is 34%, on your comparison sheet you show 26%, with no mention of buy back from solar panels Energy Aust = 12.5/kw.
    Your details lacks content, confusing enough without your help. Also my current provider charges 5cents/day for Smartmeter, cheeky sods this is on top of daily supply charge, how can we win ??
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    5:58pm
    It's like poker machines and the stock market - the house is designed to win - you are not.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:06pm
    You can't win micreen. Get into renewables when you can and put the bastards out of business. KILL COAL.
    MD
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:23pm
    Jeeves, if all the hot air exhausted over this subject could be harnessed and fed into a turbine we could then tell the powers that be to stick it. But I don't think it's worth getting all fired up over ~1% (give or take). That's the best my light bulb moment has to offer, sorry.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:11pm
    Love it.
    MD
    3rd Jul 2018
    8:07pm
    Thanks Mick, dare I presume to think that was a 'like' (thumbs up) ?
    Cheezil61
    2nd Jul 2018
    8:57pm
    Cost of living keeps going up but incomes/pensions are not & many people's incomes are decreasing, except the greedy pollies who gave themselves a 2% pay rise. .totally unfalir & someone keeps voting them back in! We will all be living in tents soon (& many are already), it's disgusting!
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:12pm
    In America that already happens. When ignorant voters who are easily mislead end up the same way it will be too late. Coming.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:55pm
    America - a nation that utilises 40% of the world's resources to fund 6% of the world's population, and still cannot resolve simple issues of healthcare, social security, genuine equality, poverty for millions, and consequent entrenched social disorder.

    Great example....
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2018
    9:56pm
    The US can't even fairly fund its wounded Veterans.
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    8:14am
    Will be interesting to see the effects of the latest round of pay cuts to hospitality and retail in the next quarters figures.

    We'll soon know if dropping incomes helps the economy there or not.

    Thank goodness for real data now and then.

    Talk is that the students who used to work Sundays have decided to try for a mid week roster and enjoy their Sunday with the rest of the high income earners especially those with kids as the childcare centres remain firmly closed on Sundays. ha ha.

    We could end up back in the days of the Sunday close if the plan backfires too much.
    JustGus
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:23am
    The prices have Only gone through the roof since most State Governments decided to sell the People’s assets in power and water. I am so glad the people of Western Australia have not been so dumb as to let it happen over here.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:48am
    Why does it always seem to descend into a slanging match between those who think they know everything, and those who do know everything?
    Oldie84
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:03pm
    Totally agree Trebor. Debate should be civilised and no personal invectives. Let's agree to disagree.
    But I guess there a quite a few old curmudgeons with no love of life and only a bitter disposition. Lighten up people.
    MD
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:48pm
    Then perhaps each of us should identify which faction we (presume to) belong in Trebor - maybe know-alls or outright know-alls ?

    Which brings to mind a quote by Plato: "I thought to myself: I am wiser than this man; neither of us probably knows anything that is really good, but he thinks he has knowledge, when he has not, while I, having no knowledge, do not think I have."

    And neither do you know how I fare in the impossible scheme of things.
    Oldie84
    4th Jul 2018
    10:47am
    To profound for me MD. ????
    Oldie84
    4th Jul 2018
    10:48am
    Sorry, an emoji turned into question marks. :-)
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:38am
    IPART Solar Power Benchmarks for 2018-2019.

    https://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/Home/Industries/Energy/Reviews/Electricity/Solar-feed-in-tariffs-201819
    cupoftea
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:12pm
    I am glad I live in the west my bill is about $70.00 a month and I shower once a week even when I am clean
    Charlie
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:19pm
    Why do these articles keep leaving out Ergon Energy, that have no competition in far north Queensland.
    Adrianus
    3rd Jul 2018
    4:39pm
    People have been asking for high energy prices since 2010. Now that we have them they're not happy. The Greens quite openly admitted they had a policy to push up power prices back then, and the weak ALP agreed to help them.
    If you don't want something then don't ask for it.
    MD
    3rd Jul 2018
    8:02pm
    Exactly who was it that asked - "for high energy prices since 2010" Adrianus, did you ? I certainly didn't. Perhaps as you've taken the liberty to qualify "People", collectively thus - "we, them, they, you" then some clarification might assist OUR edification.

    As you called it, then please define.
    Adrianus
    4th Jul 2018
    8:14am
    Thank you for asking MD.
    Let me preface by reminding you, we live in a democracy. So if we knowingly (we meaning the majority of us) provide enough votes to install a government policy then that's what we get and we look pretty damn stupid complaining about it at a later date. It is of little value at a later time to say it wasn't my fault! I didn't do it!! LOL
    WE did it! US. WE are responsible!
    Somebody once said that if voting counted for anything then we would be allowed to vote. I disagree.
    MD
    4th Jul 2018
    9:07am
    Thankyou for explaining Adrianus.

    Democracy is it ? Then maybe it's time we considered both compulsory voting and one vote one value. It seems the collective WE have a disproportionate affect on the remainder:US.
    The difference re voting franchise lies in allowing people the vote and legally compelling them to, not quite the same is it ?
    Adrianus
    4th Jul 2018
    9:51am
    They have us paying higher prices for electricity, but the Greens again with the help of Labor will have us voting at 16. Yes 23 year old Senator Jordan Steele-John is planning on introducing a bill which will see 14 year olds registered to vote at 16. He claims that a 16 year old can drive and have sex (presumably not at the same time) so they should be able to vote. Bill Shorten agrees, as I recall him saying to a group of High School students while campaigning during the last Fed election.

    At the last election the Labor Member for Herbert in Nth QLD won by 37 votes. The Federal Police investigated 42 votes which were duplicates where a voter may have voted more than once. No charges were laid.

    LET'S PUT AN END TO COMPULSORY VOTING.
    travelman
    4th Jul 2018
    12:52pm
    Hi Raphael, you might be interested to know that I did not apply for the subsidy, however, it is the government who offers the subsidy for people to have solar; bit weird don't you think for a government who trashes renewables. Also who is sending us into poverty? This government started with $187 billion dollars deficit and in a few years have increased it to $600 billion and they are going to increase it more with tax cuts and some $100 billion to be spent on military hardware. To cap it all you and they claim that Labour are the problem, that's silly. We have a treasurer who is so useless I doubt he could pronounce the words "economic management' let alone do it. His last budget proved that he doesn't know what he is doing. I liken his budget to the froth on a glass of beer, 'no substance and gone on the first puff of a recession'. But the sad thing is our nation is so fed up with politicians who are full of crap, corruption or full of their selfish interests, we have lost our desire to do anything about it - you only need to look to polling at an election to see that. We have to get our country back and start getting involved and with our weight of numbers and force create changes for the people of our nation not for a few rich scum-bags who are selling our country out from under us. We the people do have power but we need to unite through the media so to have the power to challenge the government and not only them but corrupt business as well. Since the late 1960's I have watched this country go down the tube, lost industries by the hundreds and all the people could say, "she'll be right mate". That slogan will be our economic death knell and be the end of our children's future if don't start nationally, getting our act together. We have power to choose or reject government at the polling booth but we also have power to cause change to whatever government we elect by the solidarity of our unification in the media or by direct action. History shows us it has been so before and can be so now and in the future. It is yours and my country and we must not lose our place it. The media is very, very important to us particularly the A.B.C. it is our media not the government's yet they are intent on destroying it by cutting its funding until it will be unable to function. Take notice of what they are saying and doing, that is the evidence. Democracy, are we really a democracy? No, we are far from being a real democracy. I have let off 'steam' here but I love my country and I am angry about what is happening to it. My article on installation of solar panels is my demonstration towards freedom from financial slavery to big, greedy energy businesses, but what about you, your children and your grand children?
    travelman
    4th Jul 2018
    2:45pm
    Thank you Adrianus, I don't know how your arrive at your figures I see no evidence. Read my post dated the 4th July people, voting and politics. I could agree with you about mandatory voting but for the facts as demonstrated by the large number of people, particularly young, who did not vote. They were quite happy to suffer a fine. Do you really think voluntary voting would work? If you do then you must believe in the tooth fairy. Let's face it mandatory or voluntary, it really doesn't matter. The real problem is that far too many people who are interested in footy or sport generally, what's on TV or Foxtel or some selfish interest than being interested in the state of their nation. Politicians will tell you that when we vote for them we have given them a mandate for their proposed policies - garbage. If this were so then we could hold them to account for those policies yet they get into power and reject those promises and policies. You know that is true but they can't have it both ways but we (and this is the real problem) let them get away with it. So many people are confused, dejected by what is going on with our elected leaders, they have just, plainly, given up. I love this country as you'll read in my earlier post. This nation, or should say many of them, need to be motivated, even (here is a word people don't like to hear) to be patriotic; it is our country, our only country and I am sure Labour (don't believe the vile tirade of Turnbull) would like us to be more involved in their government, they like to hear what people want for their country. Why you ask? So that they can make better decisions and this means the nation will favour them at the next election. The more feedback from more people that a government can get the better they serve the people. Don't be afraid to tell them what you thing of them, good or bad. Turnbull is determined to get rid of the A.B.C. He can't take their license away because they are a public company owned by you and me and all Australians. They can cancel the license if the A.B.C. breach strict moral and media standards. A.B.C. meets all those standards so Turnbull's only action is to reduce funding so as to make it impossible for the A.B.C. to provide us, you, me and the whole nation quality programs and that would bring their demise. The government would say was it us who destroyed the A.B.C. and because he is engineering us into that and he can't be trusted. You might say and I would agree that there is at this time a downturn on supply of good new programs, we are seeing on free TV more and more repeats. For the A.B.C. this because Turnbull has already reduce the funding by 83 million dollars. Why have I sidetracked from the voting to the A,B.C.? It is a sample of what happens when we allow a government to do just as it likes with us not bringing it to true and just accountability. I could lay a litany of disgraceful behaviour of this government. The detention centre at Nauru is a prime subject for violation of human rights and failure to tell us of the money spent to keep those poor people interned. The information is readily available on the Nauru website. I believe there is a lot to be seen on Nauru that the President does not want us to find out and that is why he won't allow the A.B.C. on his island. I throw out this challenge to the our Prime Minister to persuade the President to allow the A.B.C. to go with him to the island. I know the answer already will be no. Why, if there is nothing to hide wouldn't it be better for the A.B.C. to take away our suspicions we currently have. Another example that confirms to keeping a government democratic and honest, is for us as a nation to be involved not in just elections but to keep the b..... s honest in power. This is road we have to go down, we have wantonly, taken our hands of the steering wheel so to speak. Time for us to firmly grasp that steering wheel again, don't you think?
    Adrianus
    5th Jul 2018
    2:51pm
    You're welcome. :)
    musicveg
    6th Jul 2018
    1:35am
    Easiest way to reduce your power bill is to use less power. But why is the supply charge so high? I think that this needs to change, I recently attended an energy focus group and it was really interesting to see how and why supply charges are the way they are. Look up your distributor in your area, not the service provider.
    There seems to be a few people who realize why power prices have increased but mostly people are being fed lies after lies, everyone blaming someone or something else. I think we need a royal commission into power costs and find out who is really to blame for price hikes. Those who keep spruiking coal and gas power should realize that is outdated polluting and damaging the environment. The fastest growing energy supply is through renewable's all over the world but Australia wants to hang on to outdated coal and gas because these businesses are running our Government.
    Adrianus
    6th Jul 2018
    8:18am
    So you think you've found the facts? You think we have high power prices because business is running our government? Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Here are some facts that I'm aware of..
    1. Bob Brown's Green's Environment policy as outlined on their website, prior to the 2010 Federal election, was designed to penalise coal fired power to the point that it would drive them out of business.

    2. Labor needed the Green's support to win the 2010 election and there for adopted their destructive ideological policy.

    3. During the Labor government power prices went up 94%

    4. It is a commercial reality that, If you add costs to business the consumer pays for those costs.
    musicveg
    6th Jul 2018
    2:19pm
    Was that 8 years ago, things have changed. Big business is running the Government in the way they make donations and influence legislation.
    Adrianus
    6th Jul 2018
    8:37pm
    What you do today will shape tomorrow's history.
    Who told you that rubbish about big business and donations?
    musicveg
    6th Jul 2018
    9:16pm
    It is just from what I read here and there, here is one article:

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-fossil-fuelled-political-economy-of-australian-elections-57641/
    Adrianus
    7th Jul 2018
    10:24am
    Nothing in that article says that "big business is running the government."
    However, I do agree that funding political parties by organisations or individuals with vested interests is wrong. We've recently seen a couple of politicians being bought by the Chinese Communist Party. To think that they sold out their country for a piddly few bucks is demoralising. I would like to see taxpayer funded set amounts each year and no private funding. That would mean of course that the Unions stop funding ALP and Greens. And the Greens stop accepting foreign donations.
    musicveg
    6th Jul 2018
    1:59am
    Here is some information from this recent article and has a link to the report:

    http://econews.com.au/58122/ai-group-urges-end-to-climate-war-in-effort-to-fix-power-prices/
    *Loloften*
    31st Aug 2018
    8:03pm
    So pee'd off...my gas bill especially, 20% increase this yr altho usage was less!?