Six in 10 say pension changes won’t improve retirement

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Age Pension changes that recently passed through parliament and will come into effect on 1 July have been met with scepticism by many older Australians.

Lat week, YourLifeChoices surveyed its 230,000 members to see if any of the changes would actually improve their retirement.

Of those surveyed, 82 per cent are fully retired, seven per cent are semi-retired, eight per cent are approaching retirement and three per cent say they won’t ever retire.

Around three in 10 are on a full Age Pension (31 per cent), 29 per cent are on a part Age Pension and 16 per cent are fully self-funded. Twelve per cent are still working either in a full-time, part-time or casual role.

Respondents were asked to estimate their annual income, and 17 per cent say theirs is between $25,001 and $30,000, 16 per cent between $15,001 and $20,000 and 13 per cent between $35,001 and $40,000 a year. Around nine per cent receive between $0 to $15,000 a year and three per cent have an annual income of $100,000 or more.

When asked about which pension changes coming into effect on 1 July 2019 will benefit them, 16 per cent said changes to the means test will help, while 14 per cent think extending the Work Bonus will be helpful and six per cent think expanding the Pension Loans Scheme will be of benefit.

However, 63 per cent think that none of the changes will do anything to improve their retirement.

“It won’t make a gnat’s whisker of a change to me as I am a single pensioner with no home, no super, no savings. I consider it another shot in the back from the government,” wrote YourLifeChoices member, Terrib.

“Ordinary pensioners who rent and have no investments will not be better off. This means that if they continue to work until they drop, they can earn an extra $50 gross a fortnight. In the time being, the cost of food goes up each week with everything else,” wrote Jackie.

Almost nine in 10 respondents (89 per cent) believe that the Government doesn’t do enough to improve retirement for age pensioners.

What the Government can do, however, is increase the Age Pension, say 30 per cent of respondents, or provide free total universal healthcare (20 per cent) and guarantee seniors’ discounts on energy bills (14 per cent). Other suggestions favoured by our members include:

  • pay no tax (five per cent)
  • pay no GST (six per cent)
  • provide Rent Assistance increases (seven per cent)
  • provide Newstart or other welfare payment increases (four per cent)
  • cut house rates (10 per cent)
  • guarantee employment opportunities for older workers (three per cent).

One thing is for sure, the money being spent on these initiatives would be better put towards a straight Age Pension increase – at least according to nine in 10 YourLifeChoices members.

It’s not just age pensioners who are struggling. Not all self-funded retires are doing it easy, either, and some who could be affected by the elimination of franking credit refunds may also be looking down the barrel of having their modest income reduced.

“I made a big mistake … My wife and I saved hard, worked two jobs, did overtime and scrimped and saved to put money into super to be self-sufficient in retirement. We get no concessions and pay full price on everything. We are not wealthy live in an average price house and get nothing from the Government. We pay our own way. Shorten is now looking to take income away from (us) to go on a spending spree which will mean we are worse off than pensioners,” wrote YourLifeChoices member, Dick.

Another member suggests that the Australian Government looks across the ditch to a pension system that may actually work.

“How simple and uncomplicated is the Kiwi universal pension? Australia would save billions of dollars just in administration by abolishing the current system and possibly generate further income by taxing all earning from work, assets, etc. Shame the LNP & ALP are so entrenched in keeping it complicated for their own gain. And no Robodebt on pensions ever again.

“New Zealand’s public pension system, the New Zealand Superannuation (NZS), differs from those in many other countries. Its primary goal is to provide social protection rather than to replace earnings.

“The non-contributory flat-rate pension is paid to all residents fulfilling the residence requirements at the age of 65. The beneficiary must have lived in New Zealand for at least 10 years since turning 20 with at least five years spent in the country after the age of 50. The pension is financed from general tax revenues. The residency requirements are set for discussion.

“All benefits received under NZS are subject to income tax. The pension is paid regardless of whether the person is still employed or not. It is neither work nor income-tested. New Zealand has not legislated for a compulsory retirement age and employers are not allowed to specify a mandatory retirement age in employment contracts.”

What do you think would help improve your retirement? Which political party is better placed with policies that could benefit older Australians?

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Written by Leon Della Bosca

Leon Della Bosca is a voracious reader who loves words. You'll often find him spending time in galleries, writing, designing, painting, drawing, or photographing and documenting street art. He has a publishing and graphic design background and loves movies and music, but then, who doesn’t?

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237 Comments

Total Comments: 237
  1. 0
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    Australia SHOULD adopt a universal pension and tax all retirement income. It’s not hard, and it would likely cost far less than the current unfair mess with its hideous admin costs. Importantly, the assets test should be dumped as it is a ridiculously fake test of wealth and punishes people for doing what is good for the nation.

    We now have Shorten threatening life-long disadvantage to anyone who struggled to achieve just over the assets threshold and not be a burden on taxpayers. It’s ludicrous, unfair, and constitutes elder abuse – and it’s contrary to everything the Labor Party claims to stand for, as it is a transfer of money from battlers to the wealthy, but excludes anyone who manipulated to be a pensioner unnecessarily (as clearly the majority of pensioners who own shares must have done, as needy pensioners don’t possess shares!)

    There is a very simple way to address Australia’s budget shortfall if only one or the other political party would shift their focus from over-indulging the rich and concentrate on national interest.

    Change the superannuation tax concession to 15% below the member’s marginal tax rate – thus transferring the majority of benefit from the rich to battlers and ensuring battlers have a better chance of saving for old age, rather than loading the coffers of those who will never need a pension anyway.

    Tax income to super funds in pension phase at full tax rates, but pay a universal pension to all to ensure that everyone. This removes the penalties for being responsible and encourages people to save for retirement, and drives the tax take up substantially. It reduces the admin cost attached to the OAP and removes the fear factor that is stressing so many pensioners having to deal with Centrelink and fearing the Robodebt monster.

    This is so simple, and would remove a host of major problems and inequities. It’s mind-boggling that the wealthy are so greedy and self-serving that they won’t allow it to happen.

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      “Tax income to super funds in pension phase at full tax rates”
      Tax has already been paid at 15% so as to avoid double taxation there has to be a rebate of this tax paid.

      Fraser Anning is campaigning for the removal of the asset test and I had discussions with him a couple days about it. I also discussed the removal on the no tax on super after 60 because that only benefits those with high super incomes after the deduction of the 15% rebate.

      NZ pension rates
      https://kaspanz.com/2018/04/15/nz-superannuation-2018-rates/comment-page-1/

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      OGR has it right – and the least that government could do for genuine low income retirees is give them concessions and a healthcare card… it all depends, of course, on their income structure. It is not meet that a person retired and receiving benefits of being in that position continue to receive benefit of ‘running costs’ from business and such in lieu of cash and thus derive a very low ‘income’. In that case the persons is NOT retired and must pay tax on that excess income.

      Too hard for the tax person with affirmative action reducing real ability, reliance on ‘academic’ qualification, and reductions in staff, along with employing temporaries at tax time.* The only ones they can go after are the ordinary taxpayers/workers whose every financial move is now online for the tax person to see automatically…. all the ‘big boys’ are too hard and take actual accounting work, and hold the big stick up of lengthy legal actions. Rule changes needed….. you can get one appeal to a proper board of people who know their accounting … that’s it.

      As for Rainey’s plan and OG’s objection that 15% has been paid already in tax, that needs a look at every individual ‘s situation in order to resolve the issues of tax paid and tax to be paid. It’s going to take a lot of hard work and a lot of genuinely qualified employees in The Taxman to rectify years of neglect that has created dust-covered tax files for those with the wherewithal and the cunning, and that is going to cost in the short term. Well – it’s only making up for the cost cutting that has cost to much in revenue over the past perhaps thirty odd years of neglect built in under the guise of ‘government costs too much’.

      *All the fruits of successive government moves to ‘help’ their own mates first and foremost – such as a contracted senior management thus subservient to its political masters, the insane idea that there is no need for a year-long scrutiny of tax matters that require actual work and thus casuals and part-timers can be employed as a rule, and so forth – and that finger points at both major parties.

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      Defined benefit pensioners would need consideration. There are few of them but already they are badly treated by Centrelink deeming. The Superannuation guarantee was never received by this group. Their contributions were all non concessional. Avoiding double taxation would need to acknowledge this aspect.

    • 0
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      Indeed, Rae – the entire structure surrounding retirement packaging has become an utter shambles .. some for years have enjoyed preferential systems that others have not, some of those systems are pure magic compared to the lot of the ordinary superannuation account holder, and thus far the entire flawed system has not had a full ‘lifetime’ to run, and thus has had no real chance to show any ‘benefits’, due to opportunistic and ideology-based political manipulation.

      A universal pension, one roof superannuation scheme looks the go to me, and only needs to be resolved from a specified date. Organise, train, set D-Day and launch….

      The issues of tax concessions past and tax paid past need to be resolved – basic contributions from wages/salaries are tax-free – all others require close scrutiny by The Bureau Of Tax Scrutiny (unlike the current one that allows many to get away unscrutinised – my kid’s mother had an accountant for years and he was finally caught by the ATO and suspended – fortunately all her affairs were in order, but the really big boys he handled – well – let’s just say that was another thing) – the 1984 style ATO – dedicated to ensuring that a little tax is paid as possible by any means….

      All those issues need to be included and worked out. It’s a big and costly process – I’ve gone there before – and its only merit is that it must eventually bear fruit. In that sense, as someone else said yesterday or so, governments need to look beyond the election cycle and get to the real issues.

    • 0
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      There is a lot of propaganda about defined benefit income streams TREBOR. Many people don’t realise how expensive these schemes were for the contributor nor how bad the returns were. Just saying something over and over doesn’t make it true.

      I once calculated that the average contribution made by a public servant, not in management but a regular grunt on the ground, into one of these funds worth around $450 000 lump sum would have bought 8 Sydney investment properties over the same time frame. How such poor returns were achieved has never been investigated.

      They were compulsory also.

      I can understand jealousy when people think someone has more or is wealthy but if all that envy had been directed towards saving the same amounts after tax for decades the envious would be very well off indeed in fact they would have millions.

      Superannuation is not very successful in many cases.

      Universal welfare, education and health treating all equitably would be a marvellous thing.

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      Rae, the recipients are fair game because they were former Public Servants in most cases, but people forget that includes teachers, nurses, police officers, ambulance and mid level public servants. Having to forgo 5% after tax income for years was a struggle for many. The only reason Military pensions were excluded from the change to deductibles in the income test was political to appease a few Generals

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      Yes Sunday. There were only around 50 000 affected by the changes and it raised very little. It was pure spite against ex unionists from what I can see. Excluding just one group, the Military, demonstrates that they knew it was wrong and that unionists were not involved.
      Unforgivable betrayal of Labor voters .
      I could understand the LNP as they hate unionists and the Public Service but why the ALP and Greens supported this is beyond my understanding.

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      Sundays, in all fairness, Service pensions should stand aside from such things for many reasons… many suffer injury and illness from being in service, and those on active service obviously suffer more and deserve a better deal. I don’t think it was to appease a few
      generals…

      There are, of course, schemes to compensate service personnel injured on duty – but I know of cases where this is like the ‘Rainmaker’ insurance company – they drag it out so long that the applicant loses heart – with predictable effects on morale and attitude, and thus, often, the need for a claim for stress related problems.

      The ex-services bodies attempt to recruit me to deal with these things (maybe when the ex I’m carer for and I settle finally near the ocean, and she can be slightly more self-reliant – closer to things), and they include the utter disaster of asbestos insulation in ships and the poisoning of Air Force personnel cleaning fuel tanks from the inside…. these are dire issues which, in civilian life, would net the applicant a fortune… instead they are often fobbed off with excuses and a Service Pension, which is the same as OAP.

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      Rainey you said ” excludes anyone who manipulated to be a pensioner unnecessarily (as clearly the majority of pensioners who own shares must have done, as needy pensioners don’t possess shares!)” You have no proof anyone who owns shares has acquired them by manipulation or other means.
      Many people now on a part pension do own shares and they did not either cheat the system or buy those shares. Remember the free share give outs by NIB and I think it was the NRMA??
      The people who received the shares may well have thought they would be an asset only to find they are now a disadvantage.
      Fortunately I got rid of my allocated free shares as soon as possible as they were a nuisance rather than an asset.

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      Of course Trebor I meant no disrespect to the military personnel as individuals, but the changes were wrong. Police Officers also risk their lives but ignored in the changes which altered the exempt portion of people’s superannuation to an arbitrary 10% regardless of the actual figures. Rae, the Liberals passed the bill with support from the Greens. However, like the Asset test I haven’t heard Labor saying they will reverse it.

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      Police had a pretty good scheme that gave them a ‘mortgage buster’ if they could get out on disability – that’s why so many were corrupt and told lies – to try to make out they were suffering on the job when the truth was they were inflicting suffering on others to pave their own way to an early retirement and future prosperity in another job.

      That system had to be cut down … costing too much….

      Nowadays they are improving, but the ‘bad apples still’ exist…

      My uncle was a copper for nearly fifty years…. started as a cadet at fifteen… way back under the old system, and I noticed a Superintendent with my mother’s family name – my uncle, her brother, had a grandson who went the copper route… could be him.

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      TREBOR some police may have taken advantage as some teachers, nurses, firefighters etc but overall these few people did exactly what the Government and unions decreed.

      The excuse for holding pay back was always ” your retirement will be good..soldier on.”

      Deeming around 50% of non concessional as only 10% is not the deal people paid for for 40 years regardless of attitudes towards these community workers.

      You have no idea how many nurses, teachers, police officers or firefighters are injured on the job.

      I worked part time for the Army as a officer of Cadets and adjutant and lecturer for 9 years when my boys needed direction as they were fatherless. I have great respect for all who serve their country.

      The changes that denied promised centrelink benefits at the end of decades to public servants following compulsory orders were a betrayal. Excusing one group simply acknowledges this truth.

  2. 0
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    The commentary from a poster called Dick pretty well describes most self funded retirees: making around pension level give or take a few dollars and on the government hit list because they have assets they live off. You’d think the government would value the fact that self funded retirees are not accessing the pension system rather than targeting them to take their assets. Arguments both ways of course but I often wonder what those on full pensions would say if their pension had to be reduced because a whole pile of self funded retirees had to go on the pension. That of course is not in the thought processes of either individuals or governments.
    I like the New Zealand model but our political elite would be unable to cope if they could not spend irresponsibly like drunken sailors on shore leave. They’d have to live in their means. Not us?!

    • 0
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      You are confusing this government with labor’s intention to slug self funded retirees making around the pension level
      Dishonest as usual Mick,
      Only LnP is capable of and will deliver a surplus budget

    • 0
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      You are confusing this government with labor’s intention to slug self funded retirees making around the pension level
      Dishonest as usual Mick,
      Only LnP is capable of and will deliver a surplus budget

    • 0
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      You are confusing this government with a caring group when the reality is that it considers anyone below ‘their’ level as being not The People* worthy of consideration…. it is, after all, ‘this’ government that did a Hockey on retirees on part pension and chopped them up like cast-off bones in an abattoir. I doubt they will be forgetting that even though Fat Joe has done a wealth-creating runner into a job he should never have had.

      *a very Leninist concept – the Leninist ‘socialists’ considered their ‘class’ – the upper middle class – to be The People – all those below starting from the ‘lower middle class’ of shop keepers etc were as cattle in the field to be lead by the nose, and ignored when it came to the ‘proper’ running of the State….. that concept persists to this day in Russkiye and other places ‘communist’ or ‘socialist’ by self-naming (if by nothing else).

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      P.S. even today in the West, all the ‘mainstream’ ‘social revolutionaries’ are middle class… even the French Revolution started with the middle classes who felt aggrieved at paying taxes for the King’s fattening and opulent lifestyle ….

    • 0
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      TREBOR – methinks Lothario is paid to post. Same mud slinging with no proof or facts as always. A wasted piece of refuse! Where do they get Australians like this from????? The north Shore of Sydney?
      Your comment is as normal on the money and you understand the issue. Keep it going.

    • 0
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      Lothario repeating himself again like a bad smelly fart

    • 0
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      Funny….but correct.

    • 0
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      If Lothario is paid at all, he is probably paid the same amount as you MICK.

    • 0
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      Yes MICK. I’ve worked out I am eligible for a small part pension and I’m going to apply. Stuff the Government. I hope hundreds of thousands flood the system and I don’t even receive franking credits. I’m just really peeved right now by the inequity of it all.
      The concessions and being able to pull out the pension card every time I’m hit for full costs will be satisfying .

    • 0
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      Apply Rae. You’ve paid for it and the small amount you receive probably won’t make up for the first home owners grant, maternity leave payment, baby bonus, family tax benefits, child care rebate etc. you helped fund but missed out on.

    • 0
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      Thanks Sunday. I’m doing okay financially but the bullying I’m feeling from both the Government and the Opposition is worth fighting. I loathe injustice and inequality or lack of opportunity and I see it growing policy by wretched policy.

    • 0
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      I’ll always try to post the FACTS KSS.
      You are a part of the team and your comments go down the party line line a number of others.

    • 0
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      Perfectly said, Sundays….

  3. 0
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    They need to tie the deeming rate to the reserve bank interest rate. They assume we are all speculating on the stock market and earning far more than the banks are paying, and reducing the pension based on a false income test.

    • 0
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      Deeming rate is based on what most people are earning not what the bank pays or the cash rate. Leaving your money in the bank is one of the worst investments you can have as it loses money after tax and inflation nearly every year.

    • 0
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      You are right colours….OG goes on about how bad it is to leave money in banks. But many older people – that is all they have known. I have recently helped out an elderly aunt, and there is no way she would move her money (what little she has) from a bank. First she does not understand it all – online, shares, investments, etc. 2ndly – banks are all she has ever known.

    • 0
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      Rubbish, OG – the deeming rate is generally higher than bank interest rates on accounts – and the majority of very low income recipients always cop the lowest rate of interest from them.

      “The first $51,200 of your financial assets has the deemed rate of 1.75% applied. Anything over $51,200 is deemed to earn 3.25%.”

      Consider this little gem:-

      “Deeming thresholds: From 1 July 2018 until 30 June 2019 (for the 2018/2019 year), the indexed asset value thresholds apply as set out below: For financial investments worth up to $51,200 (for singles), and up to $85,000 (for couples), a deeming rate of 1.75% applies.”

      “FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS?” How in the hell is a boat or a Windbag a ‘financial investment”? They COST money, you idiots, they don’t ‘earn’ any!

      “NametMaximum Variable Rate p.a.tStandard Variable Rate p.a.
      RaboDirect High Interest Savings Accountt3.05%t1.80%
      HSBC Serious Savert3.10%t1.40%
      Bankwest Hero Savert2.60%t0.01%
      UBank USavert2.87%t1.81%”

    • 0
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      Rubbish Trebore.
      OG is right . You need to read what people write, not immediately jump in with your idiotic comments

    • 0
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      I thought I told you to be a good boy, Loathsome… now get along with you….

      Try reading the figures I give if you can do that simple task without foaming at the mouth. then discuss like a mature adult instead of the child we know you to be.

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      They must pay Lothario by the comment. No substance to anything he writes. I recall the same posters a decade ago when climate change was being was being debated. All you ever got was coal industry trolls posting the same sort of unsubstantiated smear we read from Lothario and a few of the others on the same payroll.

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      Not just the deeming rate but the taper rate as well. Not eneough to change the Asset threshhold but Pensioners now lose $3 for every $1,000 above the Asset wheras it used to be $1.50.

    • 0
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      BTW – I could ‘base’ any rate on anything at all – does that make it valid?

      Pensions are based on XX% of AWE… does that make it viable?

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      Oh dearie me we do have a lot of ungrateful pensioners.

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      Of course the top end of town are grateful for their huge tax cuts but ungrateful because they did not also get tax cuts for their web of companies. How ungrateful!

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      Mick the top end of town never lose and in most cases do better with any changes.

  4. 0
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    The issue is that the current generations who are getting the pension will be one of the last ones to receive it. The age of entitlement is over in Australia (except for politicians), that’s why we have had a compulsory super system in place since the 90’s. Ive just turned 54 and have no doubt that I will have my super to live on and very little assistance from the government. The question for future generations such as those in my age group, is what are we doing to ensure we are in a better position to retire and not to rely on the Government? I’m retraining so that I can run my own business after I finish 9 – 5 work, I have no intention on relying on the government system because I have no intention of living in poverty. It sucks and is demoralising. However, for those currently on the pension, it is not a fair system and they are robbed, but so are self-funded retirees who cost the government nothing.

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      With never-ending inflation and real cost of living rises, Ted, I doubt that your super will cover you adequately for very long once you are retired. Remember Keating’s ad about ‘wouldn’t you like to have $300,000 in super”… now $300,000 won’t get you a healthy supply of Mars Bars…

      How many people living today have a current super balance in retirement LOWER than that?

      “Around 58 per cent of total superannuation assets are held by those aged between 50 and 69, according to ASFA. The average super balance for people aged 50 to 54 during 2015–16 was $135,290, ASFA found. For people aged 60 to 64 this figure increases to $214,897 and for 65-69-year-olds, it drops to $207,105 as people start drawing down their super.”

      https://www.superinsights.anz.com/news/baby-boomers-this-is-the-average-super-balance-for-your-age

      That myth is in bed right now and that was 2015-2016 … now consider how many who are now around 67 have much more than that, or how little the current 73 year old is getting in the hand from super.

      “start drawing down their super” – you mean they have to draw against it to live? The government plan is working – get all the greedy old bastards to spend down everything they’ve generated from a lifetime of work, and then cut out the pension as well. Prepare the gas ovens and the Soylent Green factories!!

      Did someone say these bastards actually care or even think about anything but their personal comfort and ideology?

      Time for that revolution………….

    • 0
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      $300k during Keating’s ti me would be worth $800k today. Get with the program Trebore

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      Did you bother to read the ACTUAL figures, Loathie?

      Not much of a reader or thinker, are you?

      Get with the program, Loathsome.

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      “Age of entitlement”? I thought that was what rich citizens milking the system and having large tax cuts were enjoying. Oh yes….ONLY poor and middle class citizens need to have an age of entitlement hurdle put in their way. Tell me about a fair go Ted.

    • 0
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      Of course – The People I mentioned above (the middle class are sort of token People in that scenario – the cattle start at ‘lower middle class’) must have their Entitlements lest they mismanage the nation and it go broke to the detriment of all… it’s the Rich Man’s Burden to ensure that the peasants don’t get out of line and endanger the nation….

      So it is only right and proper that these same peasants receive no ‘entitlements’, since to offer them such would encourage them to sloth and to revolution and we would all suffer.

      At what point did it become an Entitlement for a failed ‘treasurer’ (or any other political hack) who had NFI to be handed a nice little earner as an Ambassador to any nation, let alone our biggest ally? What kind of thinking is that?

      WTH hell kind of genuine ‘qualifications do such twits have?

    • 0
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      Trebor please explain why you think it is necessary to refuse to use someone’s name and instead call them by pejorative monikers.

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      I don’t want to sound like Pauline Hanson but what’s a “pejorative moniker”? Is that how you speak at afternoon tea at the club? Your credentials are beginning to show KSS. First a loyal LNP supporter. Now slinging the superlatives which not even the educated on the site know it means.

    • 0
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      KSS – simple retaliation – returning fire to keep their heads down… then I sneak around them and take ’em from the side and roll’ em up..

      Here Loathie – ‘For people aged 60 to 64 this figure increases to $214,897 and for 65-69-year-olds, it drops to $207,105 as people start drawing down their super.”

      How much more towards Keating’s mythical $300,000 – now the equivalent of $800,000 – would those 65-69 year olds in 2016 have added? Would they even have made $300,00 TODAY?

      You truly are a great learning tool for the many, Lothario – you stimulate people to post reality to overcome your fantasy world.

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      pejorative moniker – insulting title or nick-name…

      I’ve said elsewhere that such a thing is no insult to some but often a compliment – and they need no help in demeaning themselves…. do a great job on their own….

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      Trebore is a lightweight and a tosser
      Good for a laugh
      As he understands nothing not even simple arithmetic

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      God the Lieberal trolls led by the horrible Loathsome are nauseating.

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      My happy supporters disagree with you, Loathsome….. you, on the other hand ……..

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      One has to laugh a government so desperate they have to employ half wits like Lothario. Good entertainment though. Ha ha ha.

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    Labor is intent on making modest self funded retirees spend what little assets they have an go on welfare

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      Not sure about that.
      How many SMSF retirees ‘rely’ on franking credits?
      Pretty poor investment strategy! Sure, some will have been sucked in by the hype around the share market, but as a SMSF retiree myself, there’s NO WAY I would RELY on franking credits! Even a small proportion of my nestegg. Its far too risky!
      Just the same, I do agree that franking credits are owed to the investor who (because of circumstances – not chicanery…) doesn’t pay tax.
      An illustration of the hype and scare around at the moment, my brother-in-law spouted that there’s no way he’d vote Labor because he wont “let Shorten take away my retirement!”
      (He is a retired cop on a defined pension!)

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      “On the ball” – you are not the group that Shorten is targeting. You obviously are not in the “modest” SFR group earning around the pension amount
      Those who are just over the asset threshold have to maximize their income so do have some money invested in shares that pay franked dividends. All Australian companies pay franked dividends at some point

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      Money is the bank is not an investment and is far riskier than share market investments.

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      Of course it is – ‘business rules’ say that once you ‘invest’ your money with the bank, it is no longer yours (so shares are not really yours -they are still held by the company – hello), and if the bank ‘needs’ it – it will simply resume it to pay its way before it pays yours.

      Nothing new in ‘business rules’ there at all… all possession taken but no responsibility….

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      TREBOR – given what happened to bank deposits in Cyprus during the GFC and the adoption of the legislation by every western government since money in the bank IS NOT YOURS. If the banks fail then it is gone. That is fact. Check APRA documents as its sitting there waiting for the right political and economic shock just like the desalination plant in Sydney was just cranked up at a moment’s notice.

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      Desalination plant in Sydney makes more sense than throwing billions down the drain on Tesla batteries and expensive unreliable wind energy in SA

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      And digging and burning coal makes sense to you as well even if it results in the extinction of the human race, or at best coastal cities being the next Atlantis.
      You are so full of BS Lothario.

      Are you being paid by the comment or is your payment via what is called ‘Services to the Liberal Party’?

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      By the way the South Australian Tesla batteries have STABILISED the grid and in one year they are ONE THIRD PAID OFF.
      Tell your lies to somebody who is mentally challenged.

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      Hahahah
      One third paid off ???
      How ??
      Oh I know , the labor government took out yet another loan to pay off 1/3 of the money they borrowed to give Musk his $billik s for a white elephant

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      ONE THIRD PAID OFF! AND WORKING AS PROMISED!
      Even your right wing media has broadcast that. How inconvenient to your job as a right wing troll.

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      Funny how MICK fails to mention the 100MW battery provides just 2 per cent of the capacity in South Australia yet makes 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.

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      Hahahha
      Is that how they paid back a third of the battery cost
      Shafting the poor idiots of SA with a HUGE TAX
      It’s the labor way after all

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      Gosh KSS I knew the States revenues were in a black hole but that is terrible. For a State to own so little of any money creating assets shows the trickle up to private owners and shareholders and Senior Staff and contractors of our Government’s Privatisation policies succeeded in rewarding the favourites very well indeed.

      Lothario what do they do now the revenue assets are in private hands and those hands rarely pay any taxes. There are only the citizens left to pay up. This is Neo -liberalism at it’s dirtiest.

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      The LNP tag team in action – KSS and Lothario
      You forgot to mention that the last 2 extremely hot summers has seen NO ELECTRICITY FAILURES in South Australia. Funny that.
      You for got to mention that whilst small it serves the very important function of stopping the grid going down until backup can be put online.
      You forgot to mention that renewable energy in South Australia accounted for 43% of the electricity production in 2015-16. What must it be now?

      Here’s something for you two government paid coal trolls to read:

      https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-stunning-numbers-behind-success-of-tesla-big-battery-63917/

      and

      https://industryandskills.sa.gov.au/upload/energy/facts/Renewable%20and%20future%20electricity%20generation_DSD_11216.pdf

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      “Labor is intent on making modest self funded retirees spend what little assets they have an go on welfare”

      Typical lies and fear-mongering from the Loathsome Lieberal troll.

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      Last time I was SA all I heard was diesel generators. Off over there is a couple of weeks and I doubt anything would have changed.

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      Last time I was SA all I heard was diesel generators. Off over there is a couple of weeks and I doubt anything would have changed.

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      You need to stay clear of those diesel fumes, OG – happy holidays….

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      Geez OG I expected pink batts and school halls. You are laughable.

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      No Mick this whole renewable energy caper is laughable with all those diesel generators humming away in the background in SA.

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      No Mick this whole renewable energy caper is laughable with all those diesel generators humming away in the background in SA.

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      Your typical dishonest comment OG. The diesel generators are EMERGENCY STANDBY only. Never needed from what I understand and they would only be used to stop the grid shutting down altogether.
      Tell the truth. Not your porkies.

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      Last move – I’ll be installing excess to requirements rooftop solar, solar hot water, wind generator and batteries, and water tanks….

      Sick of being bled white by power and water bills…

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      Don’t know about batteries and wind power Trebor. Will take 20 years to get your money back on that
      The solar power and water tanks make sense
      Am installing a 6.6kw solar system myself next week. My current power bill is around $650 per quarter so hope have the investment paid back in 4 years

      Not too keen on water tanks as they look unsightly and I would only use the water for my garden . Underground water tanks are not cost effective I don’t think for only watering plants

      Good luck with your project

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      Don’t know about batteries and wind power Trebor. Will take 20 years to get your money back on that
      The solar power and water tanks make sense
      Am installing a 6.6kw solar system myself next week. My current power bill is around $650 per quarter so hope have the investment paid back in 4 years

      Not too keen on water tanks as they look unsightly and I would only use the water for my garden . Underground water tanks are not cost effective I don’t think for only watering plants

      Good luck with your project

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      My solar panels have been paid for about 3 times over when we got 60c feed in but I wouldn’t bother installing them today as they would take too long to get my money back with such low feed ins. Batteries will take me over 25 years to get my money back and need replacing way before then. Got a free water tank and a couple of pumps in a property deal years ago and it’s great to water all the gardens and lawns.

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    Labor is intent on making modest self funded retirees spend what little assets they have an go on welfare

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      Yes exactly as the LNP did to hundreds of thousands during their term. They’ll go after Aged Pensioners next. Nothing surer. When on a roll keep rolling and we are easy game and you notice it’s never all of us. Just group by group attack in the fascist method.

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      Record keeps spinning!
      Keep electioneering for LNP blatantly!

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      Rae the problem is the same people that lost their pensions are the ones most affect now by Labor’s unfair proposed policy.

      With 500,000 more on the pension and their unfair franking credit policy losing more than it gains therefore they will be raiding the health and education budgets to pay the welfare budget Labor can only do one thing. Pensioners too will suffer.

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    I am led to believe that franking credits do not affect pensioners and if you are working you just claim it of your tax

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      Selfish statement
      So you care not about self funded retirees who are supporting your welfare payments

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      Those who have been doing their tax correctly and have no hidey-holes for income will receive a return, OG – that’s what tax laws say. Easier to simply abolish all franking and do your own tax – no problem-o then.

      After all, franked credits ARE part of your personal gross income….. shouldn’t make any difference to the real person …..

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      Usual NFI rubbish from Trebore. Still don’t understand the imputation system, looks like you never will

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      Even pensioners will be affected by Labor’s anti investment policies.

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      Why then would you want so desperately to hold on to franked credits, Loathie? Could it be because you are getting an unwarranted advantage out of them – meaning you are not paying your full tax duty?

      What difference does it make who pays the tax, when it is still part of your gross income? Hmmmmmm? Bit sensitive, are we? Plenty to hide? Or just, as some say here, a paid fear monger?

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      cupoftea – Shorten said pension recipients would not be affected by his franking credits legislation. Its self funded retirees who will be hit and the legislation does not discriminate between those earning around the old age pension or billionaires. That’s what is so bad about it. Worse than that Labor may not make changes to avert the attack on retirees.

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      Those opposed to Labor’s FC are just running scare tactics
      A Shorten Labor Government will close down the concession created by Howard and Costello, and return to the arrangement first introduced by Hawke and Keating – so that imputation credits can be used to reduce tax, but not for cash refunds.

      Closing down this concession will save the budget $11.4 billion over the forward estimates from 2018-19, and improve the budget bottom line by $59 billion over the medium term.

      This change only affects a small number of shareholders who have no tax liability and use imputation credits to receive a cash refund.

      While those people will no longer receive a cash refund, they will not be paying additional tax.
      Under Labor’s plan:
      o No one will pay a single cent more tax
      o No one will lose a single cent from their super contributions
      o No one will lose a single cent from their pension
      o No one will lose a single cent from their share dividends.

      Pensioner Guarantee:

      Labor believes in a fair go for Australians – we know a lot of pensioners are struggling with the cost of living and that a small proportion of pensioners rely on modest cash refunds on excess imputation credits.

      We’ve always said we’d look after pensioners, and that is why Labor’s Pensioner Guarantee will protect pensioners from our proposed changes to dividend imputation.

      The Pensioner Guarantee means Australian government pensioners and allowance recipients will be protected from the abolition of cash refunds for excess dividend imputation credits when the policy commences in July 2019.

      Under the Pensioner Guarantee:
      * Every recipient of an Australian Government pension or allowance with individual shareholdings will still be able to benefit from cash refunds. This includes individuals receiving the Age Pension, Disability Support Pension, Carer Payment, Parenting Payment, Newstart and Sickness Allowance.
      * Self-managed Superannuation Funds with at least one recipient of an Australian Government pension or allowance as at 28 March 2018 will be exempt from the changes.

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      Its a damn lie and you know it 1984
      Those who lose the tax refund are effectively paying a 30% tax on a NIL taxable income
      It’s like you saying a PAYG Employee who is entitled to a tax refund but doesn’t get one is not paying a single cent extra in tax
      What a liar

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      Yes, Mick – that is the true oil – the GENUINE lower end SFRs are not being given anything, which is wrong… every such case needs to be fully reviewed by properly trained and capable officers of the ATO, and a decision made. It’s really not that hard for anyone with a modicum of sense, as I showed clearly in my time with the APS – is hosed them how easily systems could be organised with hard work and dedication. Unfortunately those were not characteristics that the APS wanted then… now they need them more than ever given their utter incompetence. inability to actually do the job with staff cuts etc as above, and their absolute direct control by the government of the day.

      A bit like Afghanistan where the ‘head office’ staff outnumbers troops in the field by about 2:1, and ‘head office’ (the head shed) micro-managed every move….. often to the detriment of those troops on the ground.

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      1984 – I’d like to see Labor extend their desire to look after low earning Australians to self funded retirees who earn less than the OAP. Is that fair??????
      Maybe top up retirement income? Alternatively allow franking credits to a low value, say $5000? We need to see that Labor is not another LNP in sheep’s clothing. Does Labor support a fair go or does it not. Not exactly wonderful that it wants to come after low earning retirees. The bad policy may result in voters skipping Labor and heading straight for the Greens.

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      Lothario, SFR don’t support welfare payments. Taxpayers, past, present and future do. At present there are 67% of retirees who access the pension in some form or other as a legitimate income tool. You meet the criteria, you qualify.

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      Sunday’s and Mick – why don’t you address 1984’s copy paste of labors lies

      Strangely silent both of you

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      Sundays if those SFR pay tax they do support those on welfare just like everyone else does who pays tax on their earnings.

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      That’s what I said KSS all taxpayers. Past, present, future. I’m a bit tired of some SFR suggesting that they are solely funding pensioners. Working people did the best they could to support their families secure in the knowledge that on retirement they could access the pension. If you wanted more and were able you saved more. There used to be no judgement, and unfortunately that seems to be changing

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      Mick, I read over the weekend that Shorten is looking at allowing Franking credits to a low value level limit. Remember, this is a proposal it will have lots of amendments before it is ever passed.

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      Pigs fly Sunday’s
      Shorten will eliminate franking credits and raise the pension age to 70

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      1984 you are making a fool of yourself posting that Labor propaganda.

      If you have franking credits you have paid tax. If you lose your franking credits you will pay the value of your franking credits as tax. You will therefore you will lose the value of your framing credits in tax.

      Which bit don’t you understand? None of it it seems.

      What about the $34 billion in franking credits that Shorten is giving back to high income earners?

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      Sundays, 1984 – it never passes my notice that our government trolls post claims which can never be corroborated and smear which can easily be shown for the lies it is. I note the above parrots cannot PROVE anything but simply make the comments.
      I’m not sure Shorten is going to relent on the franking credits but if he wants to avoid a minority government he darn well better address the unfairness of what he has done. By all means go after those who earn significant amounts of money from the credits but don’t burn low earning retirees. They will vote against him.
      I’d hate to see the current rats masquerading as ‘representatives’ of electorates get back in. The only end game of this lot is to destitute the middle class and transfer more massive amounts of wealth to the rich.

      I am starting to think that an outspoken attendee at Davos recently who is calling for a 70% tax rate on the rich with no outs has a point. Then they’ll have a genuine reason to cry poor…..but even with that they will make money.

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      Shorten is now on track to lose the unlosable election now. Latest opinion poll has their primary vote below their 2016 one with 2 party preferred at 51 to 49.

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      Shorten is now on track to lose the unlosable election now. Latest opinion poll has their primary vote below their 2016 one with 2 party preferred at 51 to 49.

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      I saw that reported on both 7 and 9 News. Blatant LNP propaganda stations.
      I wouldn’t believe a word of what Overton had to say given his nasty arrogant rich mans sneer at Shorten after Labor was stopped from forming government because of the Murdoch, Stokes and local right wing media. That was not democracy.

      We need honest media. Real journalism. Not stooges who all support the (LNP) team….just like you do OG.

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      Mick the next poll will be 51 to 49 against Labor.

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    I am led to believe that franking credits do not affect pensioners and if you are working you just claim it of your tax

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      That’s correct cupoftea.
      Ignore people like Lothario they are LNP trolls.

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      That’s correct cupoftea.
      Ignore people like Lothario they are LNP trolls.

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      It will affect pensioners who are receiving pensions from their own savings instead of the Centrelink pension. Many only earn as much as you. They are going to have their savings decimated. Not saving is beginning to become a better idea with each retirement change.

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      Correct Rae

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      That, and spending down your assets, must be the end game of this kind of ‘government’ initiative, Rae. It would appear they want a subservient group of ‘lesser class’ people, just like the kinds they seem intent on bringing into this nation without so much as a by your leave….

      Nothing against individuals in those groups, but let’s face realities – their standards and values are not ours… they are lower, and this suits any government bent on absolute control = despotism.

      I’m sure the fools who are playing this game in Canberra and elsewhere don’t see it that way – but the majority out here do, even if they are unable to articulate it in the terms I use …

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      Every day, for example, it seems there is a new ‘wage under-payment’ scandal…. all caught out by a body set up by ‘this’ government…..

      Just one example of values and standards imported to this nation from decrepit Third World Shot-Hole Turd Factories… some of the people are fine……. many fail the citizenship test of ‘wage payments’ and income rights ….. and many make up the difference by engaging in crime…..

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      … and all, each imagining his group to be ‘better’, have a serious issue around ‘class’ in society – some worse than others….

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    New Zealand people and pollies are more intelligent than Australians in many ways.C/Link is broken and a universal pension is the only way.Must agree O.G.

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    For god sake get real Lathario you are a fool.

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      which part of what I wrote don’t you understand floss
      And please try and be courteous to fellow posters on this site

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      Thunder returning, Lothario… thunder returning…. now keep being a good boy…

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      I guess it takes one to know one.

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      Not always, OG – that Old Geezer’s Tale has long ago been banished to the outer realms of credibility…

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      Lothario wrote “And please try and be courteous to fellow posters on this site” ROFLMFHO
      When are you ever courteous, laugh of the day, maybe the week lol.
      All you do is flame & put everyone else down (except for your few troll LNP mates) with nothing constructive to say or add.
      You are a genius at f..k all mate.

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      I’ll continue my call for ‘paid’ poster. Paid to discredit any opposition to the ruling crooks in suits. Add to that ZERO facts for the smear. That’s how the LNP has orchestrated the current batch through its right wing media. Lothario is but a very small speck working to a common end.

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      I’m 100% positive you are a card carrying member of the labor party Mick
      You only come on here to bag this government at every opportunity
      With lies and labor propaganda

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      Calling a spade a spade is not bagging the government, still not posting anything that contributes to the post apart from putting people down & flaming

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      If this government showed it was a real government and not a tool for the top end of town I’d be giving it kudos. Sadly it is what it is and shows all the hallmarks of a developing dictatorship which will enslave citizens who are not in the Party and not wealthy.
      I will continue to call out corruption and abuse of power no matter who is involved. You included Lothario.

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      Anyone who unreservedly supports any major party extant is a fool in my eyes…..

      I haven’t voted for any of them for years, and will not be again this time around at either State or Federal level.

      I drive those roads and I see the pain of many retirees in the groups in which I circulate.

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      For once you are right Trebore
      Mick is a fool

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      Takes one to know one, Loathsome.

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      Mick’s a retiree with a firm handle on the truth……. I didn’t mention names…. tsk, tsk ….

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      Besides, Mick only leans towards Labor as the lesser of two evils.. not as the saviour of the nation…

      Poor Fellow – My Country!

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