3rd Jul 2017

Unfair economy ‘benefits the wealthy over ordinary workers’

Unfair economy ‘benefits the wealthy over ordinary workers’
Leon Della Bosca

Budget changes that came into effect on 1 July have many voters concerned, as illustrated by a Reachtel/ACTU poll taken on 29 June, revealing that 71.5 per cent of Australians think we now live in an unfair economy.

The Medicare levy increase of 0.5 per cent, effective from 1 July 2019, would not be required if the Government had kept the two per cent temporary budget repair levy and did not give the two per cent marginal income tax cut to high-income earners.

On top of this, the two per cent pay rise given to politicians and the removal of penalty rates from the lowest paid workers in the land seem to have created a recipe for general dissatisfaction.

“It’s galling for all Australians that while the lowest paid will be forced to sacrifice the basics in life, Malcolm Turnbull and his millionaire mates are getting pay rises and tax cuts. Everyone knows that employers are not paying fair wages because wage growth is stagnant while profits continue to grow. The research released today shows that Australians have had enough,” said ACTU President Ged Kearney.



“Today, working Australians begin to bear the cost of the Turnbull Government’s perverse policies.”

The poll, commissioned by the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU), found that 71.5 per cent of the 2032 voters surveyed feel that the three major changes that came into effect on 1 July ‘benefit the wealthy over ordinary workers’.

Only 28.5 per cent feel that the changes would help create an “enterprise economy of low taxes and competitive wages”.

The poll also found Labor leading 52 to 48 per cent on a two-party preferred basis.

Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) modelling commissioned by the Greens revealed that keeping the two per cent budget repair levy could help to fund Medicare and the National Disability Insurance Scheme. It also showed that if the marginal tax cut for people earning over $80,000 a year does not go ahead, the Turnbull Government would save almost $10 billion over four years.

In fact, if the Government did not pursue both of those tax cuts, it would save up to $34 billion over 10 years.

This would mean that voters would only have to pay a 0.1 per cent increase in the Medicare levy, rather than 0.5 per cent we’ll be paying.

If these tax cuts were dropped and just a 0.15 per cent increase in the Medicare levy were applied, the Government would be ahead $3.85 billion after 10 years. But, according to the Greens, the Coalition has its priorities backwards.

“The highest income earners will not even notice the difference, but for those families, young people, individuals who are doing it tough, those extra dollars make a huge difference. It’s about time the top end of town contributes their fair share,” said Greens Leader Richard Di Natale.

Read more at The Australian

Opinion: Time to get onboard with the majority

Public opinion of the Government’s propensity to support the wealthy over the needs of the majority is consolidating. This poll is the latest in a long line of evidence to that end.

This Government just can’t keep taking from those who can least afford it.

A Government that scraps penalty rates and uses superannuation as a national cash cache, keeps Age Pension and wage rates to barely on or above the poverty line while it hands its politicians a pay rise is totally out of touch with the average Australian.

But that’s the Government we have in place – the Government for which we voted. However, it seems, based on Newspolls and public opinion polls, that those votes are shifting.

Labor has now led in the last 14 Newspolls. It enjoys a four per cent lead in the two-party preferred basis.

Now the Coalition is knee-deep in another round of infighting, after Christopher Pyne’s misguided remarks about party factions and former PM Tony Abbott throwing more fuel on the fire by calling Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership into question – again.

To Bill Shorten, the Coalition is the gift that keeps on giving.

The Opposition Leader has put his party on election footing. He's pledged to reverse penalty rate cuts, institute same-sex marriage and hit the wealthiest Australians with a two per cent tax hike – all within 100 days of taking office.

He’s sensing a change in public sentiment – that the average Australian is tired of being taken for a ride. Australians want hospital care, employment, the opportunity to buy a house and have a good education – not the political pantomime in play at the moment.

It’d be nice to see a government back the average Australian and not the wealthy. It’d be nice to see a unified party doing what’s best for the majority and not just its cronies. Hell, it’d be nice to see a government just doing its job. Maybe then it could actually justify a pay rise.

Do you think this Government is falling out of touch with the majority? How do the 1 July changes affect you?

Related articles:
A missed opportunity
Medicare rebate freeze to be lifted
Coalition attacks Labor over NDIS





COMMENTS

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Ted Wards
3rd Jul 2017
10:25am
I think the government has been out of touch with reality for a very long time, but their biggest defense is the general apathy that seems so rampant in Australia. We all complain but then put in the worst possible leaders. Well the rich control the nation and they put in the puppets that they think will benefit them the most. So at what point will Australia stand up and start taking an interest and start looking for the politicians that will represent the average working person? They say we get the politicians we deserve. Perhaps this will be enough to wake up people and make them start taking notice of who we are actually putting in power. Of course most of the regular commentators on this site are already awake and doing their best to wake others up!
Alexii
3rd Jul 2017
10:26am
How can we get more seniors to be more aware? That's a problem.
jackie
3rd Jul 2017
11:17am
Ted Wards I totally agree!
jackie
3rd Jul 2017
11:43am
Ted Wards...This 2013 article says it all.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/politicians-have-immunised-themselves-against-pay-cuts-20131026-2w8i4.html
George
3rd Jul 2017
12:32pm
Agree, Ted. While this Govt recently talked about "fairness" ( the guy who is positioning himself to replace Turnbull when he falls, i.e. Morrison), they destroyed the incomes of part-funded retirees from Jan 2017 to help the budget yet still want to give large tax cuts to the business & the rich - without plugging the massive tax loopholes.

See below my comment how to take action against Liberal, Labor & Greens as they all have their snouts in the trough and all have failed.
moke
3rd Jul 2017
3:06pm
If people read their history books they would realise we are going backwards to the 1700 & 1800's.For a while after this Australia was at one time a good place, people not to hard done by, but it would seem that it is returning to the days of old where the rich were up there and down on the poor. Money breeds contempt that is pretty obvious by the way our millionaire and highly paid politicians treat the basic workers and older retirees.
ray from Bondi
3rd Jul 2017
6:45pm
I agree 100%
ray from Bondi
3rd Jul 2017
6:45pm
I agree 100%
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:09pm
Yes - we're heading rapidly back into the 'master and servant' relationship that used to prevail - read up on that sometime - it is the 'company store' all over again. The employee gets to work in return for found and lodging and maybe a few handouts....

I pity the poor immigrant... or the current holder of the 754 Visa - the one held by Australian citizens that guarantees they will not find work...
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:09pm
Yes - we're heading rapidly back into the 'master and servant' relationship that used to prevail - read up on that sometime - it is the 'company store' all over again. The employee gets to work in return for found and lodging and maybe a few handouts....

I pity the poor immigrant... or the current holder of the 754 Visa - the one held by Australian citizens that guarantees they will not find work...
Alexii
3rd Jul 2017
10:25am
Whoever do people, and especially seniors, vote for the coalition?

Join a seniors political party e.g. SUPA - Seniors United Party Australia.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:19am
I hear it on this website. Some folk will vote coalition no mater what. Frightening.
Seniors Party? You have to understand that older people just want to have a stress free retirement in their last few years and will not join such parties....and then they vote for the same football team they have always voted for. This government knows the game and reinforces this by sending out its representatives to nursing homes and retirement villages at election time.
George
3rd Jul 2017
12:22pm
A retiree voting group sounds great - if senior actually get out of their inertia, however most candidates who support retirees have generally been unlikely to win due to the seniors group not being large enough and votes going to the next large voting group (major party), hence we need a method to get rid of the current leeches first.

As I have posted before, in view of the preferential voting system, I suggest after voting one for your "retiree supporting candidate", the NEXT PREFERENCE should go to the candidate most likely to challenge the sitting candidate, and the last to the sitting candidate - to make sure the latter loses. That should get rid of all sitting leeches also prevent / limit getting their fat pensions for life, then maybe they will start listening. The retiree group is large enough to make such a difference, especially in all marginal seats.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
1:10pm
Retirees makes up 3.7 million people. Seniors groups not large enough/ How many do you think you need?
George
3rd Jul 2017
2:34pm
MICK, a lot vote for their "football team" anyway whatever others say, as you yourself have noted, and many either have no interest in these forum / political views and are living private lives. Many also don't use their preferences wisely, whereas that is one way this large group can influence the results. Hence my suggestion to help tip over the opposition candidate across the line if at all possible.
arbee
3rd Jul 2017
2:54pm
Mick, the same applies for Labor voters who will not change no matter what happens. I am unfortunate enough to live in SA which has become the laughing stock of Australia lately, but even after all of the destruction Labor has created here and sold off virtually every state asset the most recent poll show the vote at 50% each after preferences
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
4:06pm
Agree with both of the above. I vote for neither but at the very least would expect voters to NOT vote in criminals running Class Warfare.

As for Labor being destructive you might want to stop with the media propaganda and examine the facts. Labor kept the economy pumping after the GFC. Labor created handout debt so that people would keep spending and not lose their jobs. Labor created something: NBN...or would you be happy to still be on dial-up? And then there was finding for public schools which the current batch are happy to turn into slums!
Last of all LOOK AT THE DEBT! There has been no GFC for either of the last 2 governments but they have more than doubled the debt Labor left. Have you noticed? And as for flogging assets the coalition is the master at this. It started with Howard (who sold out my retirement investment) and the current batch are now flogging our farmland to the governments of other countries and even our ports and electricity assets, etc.

I cannot understand the BS arbee. Are you posting on behalf of this government? Seem to be on the same sort of dishonesty spiel.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
4:21pm
Too much has been sold off now MICK. Surprisingly a lot to the Communist Government by those screaming about lefties and socialists. Crazy times indeed.
Old Man
3rd Jul 2017
4:43pm
MICK, I live in an area where the majority always votes for one party and, in between election, whinge like stuck pigs that governments don't invest enough in this area. I have read that about 40% of seats are Labor, about 40% of seats are Coalition and all the spare cash,(and then some) goes to the remaining 20% of swinging seats. If we can form a voting bloc, we can concentrate on those swinging seats which will make for a hung parliament with us seniors holding the balance. Can I suggest that we not vote Independent but register a political party for seniors to achieve the balance?
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:12pm
I remain perpetually astounded that a significant (not over 50%) percentage of people actually vote for this LNP structure, based on its history in recent decades, and thus permit it go continue to take a substantial place in politics here.

(I d\also believe the same about Labor)...the question is do they actually believe that all this benefiting of corporations and big kids on the block actually creates prosperity for THEM personally?

The voting has just got to be rigged... even those who live in Tony Abbott's manor are mostly workers of one kind or another...
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:12pm
I remain perpetually astounded that a significant (not over 50%) percentage of people actually vote for this LNP structure, based on its history in recent decades, and thus permit it go continue to take a substantial place in politics here.

(I d\also believe the same about Labor)...the question is do they actually believe that all this benefiting of corporations and big kids on the block actually creates prosperity for THEM personally?

The voting has just got to be rigged... even those who live in Tony Abbott's manor are mostly workers of one kind or another...
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:13pm
echo-echo .. drop-outs....
ex PS
4th Jul 2017
10:47am
Maybe it is not a political party we need, what may be required is a strong lobby group that will represent the interests of all Retirees.
After following a political party for decades I feel I have been sold out by them as they no longer represent my views or beliefs. I would advocate for an organised lobby group that could canvass all political groups in order to get the best outcomes for all retirees.
Whether we put our votes behind Coles or Woolworths makes no difference to me as there is very little difference between them other than their campaign slogans.
The lobby group could be run along the lines of a Union or Guild for those rusted on's who don't like the use of the term Union. Whereby the whole membership votes on and decides the issues to be pursued and the order of their importance to the group.
We would become more powerful than the Unions or the Corporate world because we would be trading in votes not money. We must always remember, it doesn't matter how much you can contribute to a political party, you still only have one vote.
He/she who controls the votes, controls the government.
Rainey
5th Jul 2017
5:28am
Smart thinking, ex PS. I'm in.
MICK
5th Jul 2017
10:05am
Old Man: I think you live in my area as I can say exactly the same about it. And then we have the local council which should see some of its employees doing jail time, but they are protected by the courts and state government alike. What do you do..........
Janran
5th Jul 2017
4:02pm
Old Man, a voting bloc is a great idea but how can we agree on any policy when we come from such a wide political spectrum?

I agree with some people who have posted comments on this unfairness issue thread, including yourself, Ted Wards, MICK, Tom Tank and niemakawa, but I have had raging arguments with you all on other social justice issues like gender equality.

There are those here who are on part-pensions who are really struggling and others who are swimming in money.

The ONLY issue we agree on is probably that we all want the OAP to be increased. It's hardly a platform for setting up a political party but perhaps a Guild that supports the other Seniors and Pensioner parties are the way to go.

MICK, there are plenty of us out here who lean one way politically but we've abandoned the two major parties. The problem for some is even though they hate both sides, they hate one side more and can't bear to think their vote allowed their enemy to take a seat in parliament. It's a dilemma but it requires courage.

Maybe we need 3 major parties - that might sort out the leech candidates. Or maybe we'd just end up with a disaster like Trump or Pauline in charge - total chaos!
Wstaton
3rd Jul 2017
10:31am
Most certainly out of touch. It amazes me that a basically capitalistic government doesn't seem to realize the basics of what a capitalistic society needs to prosper. That is spending. The lower earners actually spend more on the basics of life to live. Here they are reducining the money they spend into the economy. (It is said that reducing penalty rates for the lowest paid workers will eventually take out $15billion) increasing the Medicare levy will increase that. Giving the higher earners a tax cut will not compensate for this as it ends op as discretionary payments. They will probably use it to buy more investment properties that they will end up getting a subsidy for. (Yes I consider negative gearing a subsidy)

I despair.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:20am
Irresponsible greed.
Tom Tank
3rd Jul 2017
2:31pm
On the money Wstation. It is even worse, belief it or not, in the UK. They are engaged in an austerity program where government expenditure is reduced and wages are very tightly controlled to a minimum increase. The end result being that the economy spirals downward but the ones at the top of the tree are sitting fine and dandy. Last week the Tories even cheered in Parliament when emergency workers wages were held at a 1% increase. Only a short time before that with the terror attacks and Grenfell fire the P.M. gushed all over them.
We are heading down roughly the same path BUT once the divide between rich and the rest of us gets to a certain stage then look out. In this country it will be at the ballot box
niemakawa
3rd Jul 2017
6:23pm
In the UK now, tax is levied on the Gross rental income on investment properties. The UK is on a downward spiral that is unstoppable. Just let's hope that Australia does not follow the trend. With Globalists parties Libs/Lab/Greens Australia has a good chance of ending up like the UK. Australia's future is squarely in the hands of the voters. I fear that not much will change as most will vote for their usual party and then carry on complaining incessantly until the next election.
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:16pm
Ah, Britain!

"These are the FINEST troops in the world!" - crowed Thatcher when the Falklands were re-taken..... then proceeded to not commit sufficient funding to the care of the wounded, and followed that by cutting pensions to Veterans....

I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw one's fat arse....
Emps
3rd Jul 2017
7:34pm
Wstaton:" It amazes me that a basically capitalistic government doesn't seem to realize the basics of what a capitalistic society needs to prosper. That is spending. The lower earners actually spend more on the basics of life to live. Here they are reducining the money they spend into the economy. (It is said that reducing penalty rates for the lowest paid workers will eventually take out $15billion) increasing the Medicare levy will increase that".

How it really works...A shop owner closes on weekend, because paying penalty rates makes trading unviable. Shop owner loses, shopper loses, shop emplyee loses ( a days wage). No penalty rates mean...the shop can open and make a profit, shopper can shop for things, emplyee earns a days wage.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:07am
Not quite, Emps... the penalty rates pay might be the difference between the employee being able to spend, and thus enhance the chances of the shop being open on a weekend.

If a business is so non-viable already that trading at the busiest time of the week for retail renders it unprofitable - it is in the wrong business.......

Do you seriously suggest that the takeaway food shops in good locations (a significant point) do NOT earn their maximum turnover on weekends? Or that clubs do NOT take in most of their weekly turnover on weekends? When else?

Name It!

(talk about the blind)....
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
8:20am
Emps, I remember a much more prosperous economy and happier society when the shops DID NOT open on weekends. I think a reality check is needed. I agree paying penalty rates makes life hard for struggling small businesses, but if people have to work on weekends they should be rewarded properly for doing so. And if spending power falls, the economy flags. Monetary circulation is what drives growth - not taking from the have-nots to give more to the wealthier.

I understand the pain of paying penalty rates better than most because I operated a small business that opened on weekends. I solved the penalty rate problem by working the weekend shifts myself and hiring helpers to give me a day off during the week. There are always solutions for business operators. Workers have far fewer options.
Rae
4th Jul 2017
1:31pm
We might be wrong Rainey. Looks like spending is up at retail and cafes.
Old Geezer
4th Jul 2017
3:54pm
That's the biggest problem with retirement. You never get a day off.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:23pm
A gentleman and worker retires in order to do the things he has not managed while earning his daily bread.

I work harder now than when I was paid to do so.... and the hard work I put into saving this nation from itself is a love job on top of that....

Perhaps some of our second highest paid in the world politicians could follow that template.......
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
11:34pm
TREBOR, Pollies love their job, screwing all the oldies, so give them some credit!!!
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:37pm
Do political androids dream of electronic polls? Or are they just blade runners sweating on the next poll?

Someone here once said that they enjoyed my presence since it was a trip around the world.... I have not yet begun to lay out parallels from all that I know...
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
11:45pm
TREBOR, get off to Lybya and give us a first hand report of all the poor, poor souls there being escorted by Governments and NGO's to Italy. They all seem to be desperate with all the latest Iphones/pads. Maybe there are parallels with Australia. My heart is bleeding - NOT.
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
11:45pm
TREBOR, get off to Lybya and give us a first hand report of all the poor, poor souls there being escorted by Governments and NGO's to Italy. They all seem to be desperate with all the latest Iphones/pads. Maybe there are parallels with Australia. My heart is bleeding - NOT.
Janran
5th Jul 2017
3:07pm
Emps, you are wrong about penalty rates. As a business owner, I understand my employees are people with family commitments. If they are not going to be paid penalty rates for weekend work, they are going to choose to be with their families on Sunday, and maybe even go out for lunch with their families. I can understand their reasoning perfectly.

So I challenge other business owners to continue to pay their workers as if penalty rates are still in place. Your valued workers will thank you for it and you will literally earn their loyalty to you.

It seems some people still believe the "trickle-down" lie, pushed by the big end of town and I include our own Prime Minister in that category. The truth is, as Rainey said above, the poorest workers stimulate the economy with every extra cent they earn, AND THEY PAY TAX! Whereas the rich just get another negatively geared property which gives them CGT subsidies and tax breaks, or invest it on the stock market where the $$$ is leaked into the global pot, without taxes being paid at all. "Trickle-out", more like it.

Australian workers and pensioners deserve so much more than this BS.
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
3:50pm
No longer are weekends relevant so people should be paid the same no matter when they work.
Janran
5th Jul 2017
4:31pm
With bugger-all respect, that's a stupid opinion, Old Geezer. Either that, or you have no family and you're only thinking of yourself.

Do students go to Uni and children go to school on the weekends?
Do we not get a Public Holiday on Christmas Day, even though the day falls during the week?
Why isn't organised sport played during the day time on a week day? It's because most people work Monday to Friday, 9-5pm. How would they be driven to their sporting venues if their parents are all at work? Many kids can't play sport at all because they have (crappy) weekend jobs, but they do it because of the penalty rates.

In a normal society, the reason why there are penalty rates is because people need to be compensated for missing out on their social and family lives.

Can you imagine being a nurse and having to work Christmas Day WITHOUT SOME COMPENSATION for missing the biggest family event of the year? They miss out now, but at least they are remunerated for their loss of quality of life.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:00am
Tell that to the football teams, OG, when they are playing at 3AM Tuesday morning..... with no crowds....

Get on the team, mistah...
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
8:29am
With so many highly educated performing so badly, it seems qualifications are no longer relevant either, OG. So perhaps we should pay everyone the same regardless of their claimed qualifications and ability?
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
9:10am
And if weekends and holidays are irrelevant, then we shouldn't be paying politicians and senior bureaucrats huge compensation for being away from their families. Let's cut their incomes in half in recognition of the now apparently irrelevant nature of social and family time, shall we?
Old Geezer
10th Jul 2017
2:02pm
Yes weekends and public holidays are irrelevant in this day and age and no compensation is necessary to work on these days. Normal families are so few these days that any social and family time is non existent anyway.
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
4:10am
Then politicians don't need compensation for loss of family time so we should immediately cut their salaries to 25% of the current rate - or less.
Triss
11th Jul 2017
1:04pm
Definitely less, Rainey, then we could listen to all the reasons why they should not have their money stopped and the penalty rate workers could then use the same reasoning back to them.
Onemore
3rd Jul 2017
10:46am
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.. The government does not give a damn about everyday Australians, they just don't care. In the complex I live in there are pensioners turning the lights off and living in the dark because they cannot afford the power bills.
Meanwhile the politicians just give themselves a pay rise.
Needy not Greedy
3rd Jul 2017
11:18am
It won't do retirees much good turning lights or heating off in Western Australia as the bunch of arseholes we have in government here has just increased the electricity SERVICE charge a minimum of $169 so that no one is able to escape paying regardless of how much electricity they use, their explanation is that they do not want the people that installed solar to avoid an increase, so much for all the government bullshit about installing solar and caring for the environment and lowering emissions etc etc, what a load of flog that has turned out to be, it was all great until the greedy mongrels started to blame each other for overspending and needed more revenue.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:22am
Correct Onemore.
Turning the lights off is a short term fix. Many Australians have done this so the bastards simply keep increasing their prices to bring it back to the same thing. We have the highest electricity prices in the world but don't expect this government to ever regulate this industry. They won't rock this boat.
jackie
3rd Jul 2017
11:47am
Australians will keep getting screwed by our corrupt governments and system if we all continue to remain complacent
in2sunset
3rd Jul 2017
1:04pm
Agree, my service charge has increased 267% in 7 years. The next time I read about a politician talking about lowering electricity prices....instead, look at the gouging service charge.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
1:53pm
Haha. Arthur Sinodinos has a full page ad in the local paper here warning about the danger of higher electricity prices if we elect Labor. This from the guy that wanted to steal our water. Still I guess a lot of old folk out there will believe it. If it is in writing in a paper it must be true.
Knight Templar
3rd Jul 2017
3:57pm
You're right Needy not Greedy. I understand that Urban Utilities in South East Queensland are seeking to increase water service and consumption charges.

During the drought that affected the Eastern seaboard a few years ago, major water restrictions were imposed. Any breach was subject to severe penalties.

Much to the chagrin of Urban Utilities, it appears that residents and business owners have learned to live with lower levels of water usage. Urban Utilities forward budget estimates anticipated an increase in water consumption now that the dams in South East Queensland are almost full and restrictions have been removed. It did not happen.

As a consequence, it has been reported that Urban Utilities are now seeking the Labor government's approval to increase water charges to improve their bottom line. They are also losing tens of millions of dollars annually maintaining a large desalination plant that has never been operational.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
4:10pm
Rae: Remember the Abbott campaign lie "you have high electricity prices because of the Carbon Tax"? They even kept on after the election. Now Sinodinos is using the same lie.
Some people must be brain dead to do anything other than break out in uproarious laughter.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
4:29pm
Yes MICK. I'm in NSW and have high prices because Baird spent $16 billion to get a $10 billion sale over the line.

We also had 5 days of no electricity after the last bad storm. My daughter was out for two weeks. No renewables here causing the problem. Just a storm.

It was kind of nice really. The kids all started talking and playing together as the mobile coverage was down as well and we all caught up over hot soup in the pub that had a generator.

We are subsidising cheap prices for energy in China. Paying for Chinese businesses to provide jobs for their people. Obviously some governments care more about their country than ours does.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
4:33pm
Indeed Not Greedy - when you are in the hands of the robber barons, as this nation has been for decades now, they only ever consider 'their' bottom line - not yours - in the full expectation that if many people find it hard to pay their ever-increasing bills, the government will step in and fund charities to give assistance.

Far better to have left utilities totally in government hands on behalf of the people and their nation.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
4:36pm
.. and even what's worse - their 'private purchase' of public utilities is guaranteed by government, so that if the government decides it is not working or if those 'privatised' companies go broke - WE will have to pay them out.....

The governments that set these 'privatisation' 'ventures' in place did that from the outset to guarantee their mates of an income one way or the other.

So much for the benefits and efficiencies of 'private enterprise'.
musicveg
4th Jul 2017
5:50pm
Considering that 95% of oil and gas corporations don't pay Australia any tax, who are they really working for?
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
7:50pm
As somebody said - they are all global economy adherents, who somehow firmly believe despite the descending avalanche of pain, unemployment, escalating prices, descending standard of living, and so forth - that this is the ONLY way this country can keep going.

I beg to differ - I say we can play the global economy - by OUR rules.. and not the rules of those who are gaining most out of it.
inextratime
3rd Jul 2017
11:11am
The problem with the current political set up is that there are basically two choices. Vote Liberal and watch the wealthy get supported, vote Labor and watch the unions run riot. Get rid of compulsory voting and let the pollies work for their votes instead of just sharing them between themselves and taking turns to rule.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:23am
I think you are terribly wrong with your comment about unions. They did not run rampant last time Labor was in and they are a shadow of their past size because members have left over the years. How else do you think the hospitality industry was cannibalised.
AutumnOz
3rd Jul 2017
12:09pm
There may only be two major parties but there are many more Independents and minor parties fielding candidates in federal elections.
Although few of the Independents and other candidates may be voted in but if all voters put the Libs and Labor last and second last on the voting paper the message will get through to both the major parties.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
1:59pm
I've been a card carrying unionist since 1970 and am glad. The only pay rise I ever got was after protracted negotiations and a strike or two.

On one occasion a bully of a boss accused me unfairly and it was only a senior management friend and the Union lawyers who saved me.

Good luck to those without that support as I think it is a lot of their fault we are in this mess. As Hawkings said recently Greed and Aggression is inbuilt in human nature and I suspect a lot of the top dogs exhibit these traits more than most.

If we want fairness we will have to fight for it.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
4:12pm
Only ever been in a union because of a cannibalistic employer. I don't need union support other than for protection, their main purpose.
Troubadour
3rd Jul 2017
11:16am
Whichever Political side is in power be it Liberal, Labour or other - they will always look after themselves (ie. this latest pay rise for pollies). This latest is just disgraceful when they have taken from so many power income, it is not as if they are poorly paid by a long shot!! If we can and ARE EXPECTED to survive on our pensions, and most of us do just manage - then they can easily live a more than adequate life on less than they are getting now.
Troubadour
3rd Jul 2017
11:17am
OOPs - my entry should read 'poorer income'not power
Farside
3rd Jul 2017
2:16pm
a wee bit jealous? Just because people can live on lower incomes does not mean they should. The pollies are paid well because that is what we as a society have determined to do. Don't like it then advocate for a change and persuade enough others to your view to make it happen.
DrPolymath
3rd Jul 2017
3:08pm
It's "Labor", Troubadour, not "Labour". The latter is the British political party.
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:19pm
We as a society did NOT determine to pay our politicians handsomely - THEY chose that for themselves using their power to do so.

Nobody asked us - we were just told the poor darlings didn't earn as much as a big corporation CEO and deserved more...

They are paying the new 'ceo' of Australia Post $1.3m - it costs $2.5M or so per annum to run a politician on average.
Farside
3rd Jul 2017
9:42pm
Trebor, the pollies did not choose the level of remuneration; it is what it is. If you truly believed it to be excessive then a righteous strategy for an intending candidate would be to forego a percentage or amount of the remuneration and donate it. Of course putting the cheapest person in to do the job might deliver a sub-optimum performance. Should all leadership roles in public organisations be up for the vote?
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:12am
Of course not - their appointed mates who equally benefit from the same decision make the decision on politician pay rates.

If 'I' truly believed it to be excessive etc? HOW do 'I' change it?
If THAT candidate thought that to be the case.. perhaps so...

Putting the current lot in the job is clearly producing a sup-optimum performance...... which is what this entire discussion is all about (hello)...

Name your 'public organisations'.... then we'll talk.. stop stalking around the bushes over that issue and trying to set semantic traps.....
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
3:13am
Farside, in my experience as an employer, the very WORST employees were those with a high opinion of themselves and their worth. And that's certainly true of pollies. Those who go in with modest income expectations because they WANT TO DO THE JOB will always deliver far better results. Lower the pay dramatically and we'd have much better politicians than the greedy, inept, self-opinionated, self-interested bunch of incompetents.
Rae
4th Jul 2017
7:54am
I agree Rainey. We had better politicians when they were in it for their beliefs and not for the money or cushy job after wards.
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
8:38am
I argued with my grandmother when she said politicians shouldn't be paid, saying that would prevent any but the rich taking on the job. Well, now I agree with her. At least if they weren't paid at all we'd have people going into it because they aspire to serve the nation rather than purely to obscenely inflate their already over-inflated bank accounts.
Old Geezer
4th Jul 2017
2:09pm
I for one would not be a pollie for the amount they are paid.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
4:39pm
We all hope you would not, OG - but your position is irrelvant to the issue - paying more has only provided fatter monkeys with more peanut excrement, so if the position is reduced to one of true service rather than large pay... we the people have nothing to lose.... and possibly a great deal to gain through having genuinely dedicated people doing the job rather than worn- out party hacks on both 'sides' purveying their worn-out party lines, which have little to nothing to do with their job of running this nation on behalf of its people, but everything to do with their personal desires and interests as a group.
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:26am
Thank goodness for that, OG! You are precisely the kind of person we DO NOT WANT in politics - and your statement validates mine. You evidence EXACTLY how paying too generously is resulting in greedy, self-serving politicians who have neither empathy nor respect for the majority. Pay increases threaten us with more people like you who will further stuff up the nation with their arrogance, contempt for responsible struggling workers, and unfair favouring of the wealthy class.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:16am
About time a journalist worth his salt told it like it is.
I have been calling this for what it is for some time: CLASS WARFARE. Blind Freddy would have seen this coming.
We all need to recognise the signs:

1. substantial improvements in economy but all kept by business. With high inflation working Australians have seen the ir costs and buying power erode significantly over the past 4 years.
2. large increases in remuneration for the rich.
3. tax cuts for the rich which is totally unjustified and unfair to the extreme.
4. offshore tax shelters becoming the norm for wealthy citizens to launder their money and avoid the taxes the rest of us have to pay.

Yeah, Class Warfare. Let's not kid ourselves with any explanations. There are none for the obvious attacks on working Australians just trying to pay their bills.
pedro the swift
3rd Jul 2017
11:19am
We need ALL Australians to get involved in the political system instead of just being led around by the likes of Murdochs news media and others. Start by sending wakeup letters, emails etc to your local members.
When they realise that average Aussies are ready to tell them what they want then they may take notice. Otherwise its a case of taking it to the streets,or a revolution as they had in France or Russia,and we know how that turned out!
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:25am
Yes. And ignore the media which has become the propaganda mouthpiece of the coalition. Especially during an election campaign.
Ahjay
3rd Jul 2017
11:30am
Why do you think they took the guns off us?
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
1:12pm
Buy one from an Islamic dealer. Two were caught the other night. Any type of gun you want.
The only guns being handed in are pea shooters....rusted up old 22s and the like which have not fired a shot in decades. The amnesty is nothing more than a diversion to take scrutiny off tax cuts for the rich and Class Warfare.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:13am
Used to be the $100 Saturday Night Special in the Mekong Club....
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
1:19am
The politicians know full well that most Australians take little or no interest in what their Government is doing. Complacency is rife and the pollies know it. Writing to your local MP or direct to the Government is commendable ( I have do so on many occasions, but rarely receive a reply). We must keep stoking the fires to get things moving in the right direction. Hopefully the masses will wake from their stupor, before it is too late for us all.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:03am
Oh - never knock a .22..... in the right place and time it can be a killer.
dstark
3rd Jul 2017
11:23am
Look at who commissioned this 'opinion poll' - the ACTU. The poll results depend on the questions asked and who was asked. If we are not prepared to reward risk takers - i.e. employers who provide the jobs - but instead want to have more equal shares of a never increasing size pie, then we will end up like Greece, where laziness is rewarded.
I prefer to have a government that is trying to reverse Labor's wastefulness, and return Australia to a country that rewards those who create work for those who can't.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:29am
You never speak up when government controlled agencies run propaganda. Why? Are you alleging the poll is incorrect or biased?
You go on to talk a whole pile of nonsense. The Abbott and Turnbull governments have more than doubled our debt, removed the debt ceiling so that they could borrow on forever and done so with NO GFC during their terms.
Wastefulness? The NBN which YOU will use? Public education so that average children have a chance in life? $50 billion in tax cuts for those who are already very well off or rich?

You sound like a rich person defending your patch dstark. The truth is something you clearly have no appetite for. Just like the government you vote for.
jackyd
3rd Jul 2017
1:48pm
Amazing how there is no blame directed towards Labor that started this economic decline.Somehow it's all Murdoch's fault considering the Left dominates the media in this land. Socialists economics for vote grabbing rather than keeping the fiscal pie in one piece is a joint
responsibility that has been abandoned by both these major parties. Abbott tried to address the issue but was hounded down from all sides so we can only reap what we all sow.
Dim
3rd Jul 2017
3:46pm
Don't expect anyone or very few at least to agree with your comments, unfortuanately most contributors constantly quote left wing bias usually sourced from the guardian, the independent and other sources linked to the left wing like the huffington post, and anyone that disagrees with their point of view must be rich and have no empathy with the less well off. Just to clarify my situation and my beliefs, I was a fully paid up member of the AMWU and other unions for almost 50 years, I fully support the union movement and what they have achieved, I just can't abide the extreme left of the union movement, we have had good men come through to become politians and prime ministers eg. Bob Hawk, but the current crop led by Bill Shorten will destroy this country, are the Libs any better? I doubt it but they do seem to have a plan, Labors plan to spend us out of trouble will have the opposite effect. Lastly as a pensioner I don't seem to be any worse off after the 1st of July maybe I wasn't rich enough in fact I got a small increase in my pension.
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
8:27am
Libs have a plan for sure - to return us to a feudal society where the born rich getter ever richer and the rest are slaves to the privileged. I have never liked Labor and I detest Shorten, but I'd rather their policies any day than those of these greedy, self-serving LNP mongrels. I don't believe Shorten will destroy the nation, and I don't believe they want to ''spend us out of trouble'', but we need monetary circulation, and that can only happen by taxing the wealthy more and increasing the spending power of battlers.

Seems I'll be much worse off after 1 July and I suspect EVERYONE will, because power costs are soaring everywhere. 20% increase where I live, and although solar helps reduce consumption, we are still slugged with massive rises in connection costs.
Old Geezer
4th Jul 2017
2:06pm
Rainey power costs are so insignificant I have to wonder why you are whinging about them.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:04am
Ahhh - so that explains why you are always in the dark, OG - you don't USE power....... (ROFL emoticon implied).... in older usage.. ta-boom - tisssssh!
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:30am
Insignificant for the well-to-do, perhaps, OG. Crippling for those struggling on low incomes. Thankfully, I am comfortably off, but that doesn't change the fact that increased power costs will leave me - and everyone else - with less to spend on other things.
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:48am
Besides, OG, anyone with a brain knows rising power costs drive up the cost of everything else - particularly essentials. The only thing that doesn't rise in parallel is the incomes of those who are struggling to make ends meet. Power cost increases are not even counted in the CPI for the purpose of assessing pension increases.
B5YCK
3rd Jul 2017
11:27am
We are self funded retirees as during our working life it was some sort of "shame" attached to live on a government handout in your retirement. We saved, did not go on expensive holidays and paid our taxes. The rest went into our savings which we invested and became our nest egg. What a tragic mistake. We are reasonably commfortable but still having to pay tax to the government on investment incomewhich in our opinion is double dipping. In hindsight we should as many in similar circumstance have done blow it all away or cashed in and put all of it buried in the back yard and gone on a pension. The government should not only look after the pensioners but also after the self funded retiree who like us do it harder because of the government's greed.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
11:31am
You are describing life for many of us who sacrificed so much to prepare for our retirements. Now double crossed by the rich man's government. One born every minute I guess. The moral of the story is never trust governments. Any of them.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
2:15pm
Betrayal is exactly what it was and deserving of nothing but contempt.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:05am
.. and a fair hanging after a fair trial.....
AutumnOz
3rd Jul 2017
11:39am
The current government needs to get its act together and take note of the majority of Australians who are doing it tough - they are the ones whose vote matters not the few at the top of the income scale who do not have the numbers to make a major difference at the polls.

I was reading the news online a few minutes ago and came across an article about Malcolm Turnbull saying he was going to be Prime Minister for many, many years to come. I do not like his chances of even making a second term elected into office let alone for any longer.
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
3:34am
Turnbull evidenced that he is delusional when he claimed to have grown up ''disadvantaged'' because he was the child of a single parent. Gee! The child of a millionaire who attended the most expensive schools and university in the world and inherited millions THINKS THAT'S DISADVANTAGE. How could you expect him to be realistic about anything else - least of all his own unpopular status and future?
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:29pm
Fat Joe swept the floor at the family shop - he forgot to mention that his grandmother was a lifelong property investor in North Shore properties.....

Michaelia Cash was a back-packer at one time.... I've seen 'backpackers' who can afford something like a grand a week to rent a campervan while sojourning around the world with no job.... someone said - 'she was so disadvantaged she had to handle USED $100 bills!' (the horror!!)....

Tony Abbott got the private school education - annual fees cost as much as a low paid worker earns in a year before tax..

Bill Shorten is no better.....

Need I go on?

Time to turf the bloody lot and start again...
Bletch
3rd Jul 2017
11:43am
Please tell me just how do ordinary Australians show their disdain to the cost hikes from electricity, gas, petrol, food costs, interest rates and penalty rates removal?
Lucky country eh? I think this is further from the truth. Okay I can accept an increase in electricity and gas but 20%. You have got to be joking, we are not getting any pay rises!
MP Will Hodgsman did not pass on this full rate to Tasmanians and I congratulate him. How can pensioners afford these hikes ? Back to the dim dark ages where we wrap ourselves in a blanket and leave lights off. And this is modern society ?
How can Australians tell the government that we are fed up? I could not afford the electricity hikes so I put on cheaper gas. Now gas goes up as well so I put on solar panels, the cost to the grid has all been eliminated now so where do we go now? They will get more money out of us one way or another? Do we strike in Australia for one day to show our protest by not going to work etc? The rich would not do this would they? I myself will not vote formerly again as a protest and will write over my voting paper Hands off pensioners, hands off electricity and gas !!!!!
AutumnOz
3rd Jul 2017
12:29pm
Bletch, we can't afford the price hikes either. Unfortunately I have no answers as to how to cope with the expenses.

We are both wearing two pair of track pants and a couple of jumpers just to keep warm. We use as little electricity as possible and as there is no public transport out here we both have to pay for third party insurance, mine was due a few weeks ago and it was a shock because it had gone up over $200 in one year, it had to be paid but took a chunk of savings to do so.

Please do not vote informally it is a waste of a vote which could make a huge difference in your electorate and change the outcome of the election. Instead just vote for any candidate who doesn't belong to the major parties and put the major party candidates on the bottom of your list.

Remember you decide your own preferences so use that power to show your disgust with the government. The various Independents and minor parties usually say they will give their preferences to ??? but what they really mean is they will print their preference on their How to Vote card which is all they can do.
KSS
3rd Jul 2017
12:37pm
Interest rates at an all time low. Petrol prices at the lowest for over a year.

The 20% hike in gas and electricity cost (painful for ALL) are in no small part due to the Greens and Labor policies on renewable energy whilst at the same time selling off the resources to other countries with far higher pollution than Australia will ever have. Still never mind the lights go off in SA; at least they have no coal fired power stations!

And for the record I have no heating or cooling systems in my home and have been "wrapped in a blanket and leaving lights off" for years!
Wstaton
3rd Jul 2017
12:59pm
Well KSS,

Low petrol prices have not come about because of this government.

This government has done nothing to fix any problems except make it worse. They have hit the less well off and guess what It will still make it worse.

Low Interest rates have by far been stripped because of the monstrous hikes in property values. Whats the point of a 2% interest rate when you are paying double for a property.

Remember wage increases are at a all time low. again not offsetting property values.

Ah! but profits are at a all time high Well if this is so why aren't these businesses invest more? Isn't this what it's all about greater profits enabling these business to invest more. It's not happening.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
4:33pm
The local Coles Servo has has diesel at $136.9 for two years now. Never changes. Damn if I know why. I don't buy mine there. I drive about 15 minutes up the road to pay from $109.9 to $119.9 at the Metro.
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
3:54pm
I wouldn't drive for 15 minutes to pay $109.9 a litre for diesel either.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:07am
You work out your cheapest venues, OG, and drive there when you can do something else at the same time.. I'm fortunate in that I drive past 4-5 really cheap spots on the way to the ex's daugheter's place, where we take her kids swimming one day a week.

You just need to organise your activities....
dstark
3rd Jul 2017
11:56am
The idea that a majority of Australians are doing it tough is nonsense. How tough depends on what we want. Some seem to think that having reached retirement, life should be easy. But look at the facts:
The aged pension was introduced when life expectancy for males was 67, and retirement age was 65. Thus the workforce had to support very few not working.
Male life expectancy is now at least 80, and increasing by 3 months every year due to medical science and better nutrition. Thus a proportionately smaller workforce has to support a great number of more retirees. The burden has shifted onto the young to support the oldies, like the oldies never had to.
Time for the oldies (I am 72) accepted that life is never going to get better for them, unless they want to destroy their grandchildren's lives.
AutumnOz
3rd Jul 2017
12:37pm
I suspect you are living on a full age pension.
Have a thought for the self funded retirees who are currently living on approximately half of that amount because of the low interest rates. Many of them do not want to be involved with Centrelink because of all the stuff ups that organisation causes people.
What makes you think the oldies are trying to destroy their grandchildren's lives? Most of us will have died out before the grandchildren start earning a living.
jackie
3rd Jul 2017
1:03pm
dstark...you forget that most of us kept our grandparents when we were young too.
Wstaton
3rd Jul 2017
1:18pm
dead right AutumnOz,

I am existing on much less than the age pension. The reason I manage is one thing which is one of the things this government is killing. I own my home outright.

If I didn't I would have to end up trying the age pension. But I am a independent sod and don't want to subject myself to horrible government scrutiny to all aspects of my life.

I don't decry those on a pension and I would never vote to end government pensions.Whatever a person has done through their lives it seems to be forgotten that the majority have contributed to the economy and should be looked after because the nature of their work or circumstances have prevented them securing a nestegg.

It would seem that some countries without the enormous natural resources that we have are able to provide pensions as a right (even millionaires) Yet we can't.

I think that the super system we have is an abortion. It seems to be created to create profits for others (not the superanuants but the companies who run the super systems)

The system should have always been run by the government. Stuff this private enterprise can run things more efficiently. (yes we see that with our energy sell off).

I despair.
Old Geezer
3rd Jul 2017
5:15pm
Why are you as self funded retirees living on less than the pension? Makes no sense to me at all. Use your capital to make up the difference as it's no good to you when you are dead. Isn't that why you saved it?
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
8:55pm
Well the youngies had better get cracking then - follow Joe's advice and get a good job.... (yardle, yardle, yardle).... follow Pauline's theology and open a fish and chip shop on every corner in Ipswich, build their own business.... (yardle, yardle, yardle).... listen to Big Mal with his 'interneeships'.....listen to Morrison with his chops at the lowest paid and big handouts (welfare) for corporations....harken to the 'Productivity Fair Work Commission' when it tells us the economy will boom if we just cut the incomes of the lowest paid in the land...

What's wrong with you all?

(tongue in cheek).....
Rae
4th Jul 2017
8:04am
Old Geezer those people may not have savings to spend. If they are defined benefit pensioners they had to hand over the lump sum.

Because they didn't get the 9% guarantee or tax concessions that income was discounted but this government ended that.

Some probably would get a part pension and card if they could be bothered to jump through Centrelink hoops.

Being independent for a lifetime many choose not to.

People believed the propaganda about the defined benefit super. It was very expensive to buy, didn't provide tax benefits and has left many worse off than either government pensioners or self funded retirees.

Nothing they can do and the deemed sum is about twice what the lump sum would have been at retirement.
Rae
4th Jul 2017
8:09am
Yes TREBOR it will be interesting to see if the increases for some outlay the deductions for others.

Constantly pulling funds out of the economy will contract it but some increases have been made to government welfare and minimum wage earners.

We'll see. It looks bad so far for retail but is still good for cafes and clubs judging by the numbers of pensioners still able to eat out.

Just hope they don't start whining when the electricity bill arrives or the fridge breaks down.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:12am
Whatever happened to the 'safety net' for those 'sfr's? Surely anyone living on less than the pension can get a top-up via part-pension?

Something else wrong with the mix, it seems.... and should be addressed by either some strong independents, a new party or that strong lobby group outlined above.
Rae
4th Jul 2017
1:34pm
It has to be the asset test they fail. Besides retail looks to be doing just dandy judging by todays figures.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
4:41pm
Yes - the assets test... has to be.
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
1:31pm
Asset test is more than generous and people need to understand they need to spend their capital not just the income it generates in retirement. Capital is no good to you once you are 6 feet under. However those getting hold of it are going to have one great time spending it at your expense of going without.
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
1:33pm
Maybe not as those Age Care sharks will take a great chunk of it first.
niemakawa
5th Jul 2017
1:40pm
OG Any capital that I have belongs to me and only me. Once I kick the bucket it will all go to my family as that has always been my intention. I have no interest or compunction to spend it all or even worse let the Government take it by stealth and taxes( which I have already paid mind you) to give to people I do not care about, to whom I have no affiliation or desire to know. Taxes are paid for this purpose, far too much in my opinion. My family will get it one way or another and I will still get my entitlement and moreso my right to a aged pension.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:10am
NO, OG - people do NOT need to spend their capital to live in retirement - they've paid via taxation for 50+ years to get a pension, and it is an Earned Right.

If someone has accumulated a few goodies that earn them no income to enjoy in their last years on this planet - good for them - NOT for the government in its blatant greed and self-interest.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:12am
The thinking (if it could be called that) of your kind, OG, dictates that ONLY the wealthy have the Right to give their offspring an inheritance... and unless the possession of assets is extreme and unbalanced, there is zero need for government to even consider them.

I think you need to get out more and learn a lot more about the way things really work out there.
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
10:03am
OG, a retiree facing maybe another 35 years of zero income, potentially high inflation and falling investment returns, and very uncertain economic conditions WOULD BE A THOROUGH IDIOT TO SPEND THEIR CAPITAL NOW. And only a thorough IDIOT would suggest they should do so. Shut the hell up, old fool. You have no idea what you are on about and your bad advice makes you a public danger. God help any poor ill-advised soul who thought you made sense and heeded your advice. Will you take responsibility for their future poverty, inability to meet high looming health costs, and inability to fund decent age care? No, I thought not!
Dim
3rd Jul 2017
12:03pm
The latest survey, done by the ACTU returns exactly the result you would expect from the union body, which immediately raising concerns as to how the survey was run and the questions that were asked. There is a world wide push towards left wing socialist governments, some would say that's a good thing and that its about time we looked after those people that are less well off than others and anyone who disagrees is heartless, when I was young I was as idealistic as all of my young friends and believed that the rich should be sharing their wealth with the rest of us, I mean why should that guy be driving around in a $100,000 car when I can only afford an old bomb, they should be paying for my healthcare,my education,the police and the armed forces, I will contribute my share later when I am as wealthy as the guy's at the top today, sounds good and sounds fair,unfortuanately life isn't always fair, I started work in the 60's the only overseas excursion I could look forward to was an all expenses paid holiday to Vietnam, for most of my working life I paid high taxes especially on any overtime I worked, I also paid high interest rates, we didn't get any maternity leave no baby bonus, no first home buyer assistance, and yet we managed. There is that much money going out to a lot of the improvements that have been made since the 60's and I think that's great and while we can afford it it should continue. Pensioners are the biggest losers and it would seem to me that everyone except the pensioners are getting a much better deal, maybe it's time to look at who put in and who is taking out.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
2:28pm
Yes Dim very true. A lot of us never got much at all from taxpayers. We were the tax payers. Not even tax concessions for saving.

That should be taken into account.

There never has been a truly socialist society ever anywhere since we started farming. The Scandinavians come close with equality through universal health, childcare and aged care and education.

This dual system, we have since Howard, of half public and half private just isn't fair at all.
Blondie
3rd Jul 2017
12:13pm
One of the comments Mick has made, is absolutely spot on! I cannot understand how anyone who is either a pensioner, student, family, earning less than 80K a year can even consider voting for the money grubbing coalition.....EVER! It is they, who have ramped up Australia's debt, given tax cuts to the wealthy, and they DO NOT CARE the pain they are causing the average earning family/ students, etc! If it hadn't been for my union, the NTEU in the 90's, when I was being monstered by a feral Dean, I would have lost my career, well before I was due to retire. The university had to pay this aberration out, as he was destroying the department! The SBS programme, ' The Super Rich and Us', said it all: the top 5% of the world's extremely wealthy, have been conspiring since the 70's to rescind the wealth from the poor and shrinking middles classes, for themselves! Class warfare? You bet it is.....they get away with it, because of TERMINAL APATHY of the workers they always exploit, except now, it is far more apparent!
GrandmaKathleen22
3rd Jul 2017
12:16pm
Well, at the moment, my money is on Labor. They stood their ground with the Gonski and they are the only ones who seem to have a heart as well. The Greens are too left and have supported the LNP recently trying to curry favour. The Pauline Hanson mob are a disgrace. The PM would not be too bad if he could stand up better to the far right in his government, Abbott is destructive and an embarrassment like Trump because he cannot speak well. The environment is not being forefronted enough. We need to start making this a priority. Solar on all new houses and encouragement for people to go green as much as possible, it is a world issue as well and some of the third world countries are making a better effort than we are. Again, Trump and Pauline Hanson and Abbott are all a disgrace on this important issue. At least the Greens shine on this issue. Yeah, my vote at present is with Labor. Vote for issues not parties or individuals.
KSS
3rd Jul 2017
12:25pm
Easy to 'have a heart' when you have no intention of ever paying for the handouts you bestow!
jackyd
3rd Jul 2017
2:09pm
Grandma, you have been watching the ABC again haven't you!
Far too much misinformation to sully such a fine heart.
Rae
3rd Jul 2017
2:55pm
Gonski has stripped almost $14 million away from the schools here in a high population growth area. Punishment for voting Labor last election I suspect.
Wstaton
3rd Jul 2017
3:00pm
Sigh, I guess the liberals never give out misinformation.
GrandmaKathleen22
3rd Jul 2017
3:30pm
I know how to research effectively. I do my own research. I do not rely on anyone or anything. You have to be flexible enough not to align with any political party or personal view or family view or practice of voting. Look at the facts. Understand that everything you read may not be founded in fact or evidence. Research the researchers and the biases. At this point in time, Labor is the best choice out of what we have.
Another time it was others but right at this moment in time it is definitely Labor. Others are causing damage to Australia. The likes of Pauline Hanson who has not grown over 20 years is detrimental in many ways. LNP doing deals with those prepared to deal is really bad. If they are prepared to negotiate and sell their soul they are doing themselves damage. The need to have morals and decency.
To create a massive divide between rich and poor is extremely detrimental to the country.
gilstamp
3rd Jul 2017
3:34pm
Good on you, Kathleen. Don't take any notice of these gainsayers. A mean spirit does not encourage positive action. We have to keep the common good in mind and oppose the oligarchy that is happening.
Sen.Cit.84
3rd Jul 2017
3:57pm
Sorry, Grandma, I can only agree with jackyd comment above .
Old Man
3rd Jul 2017
4:53pm
Gonski shortfall is a con. Labor wanted to spend $40M in the final year of the plan but it was neither legislated nor funded. Some Catholic schools are bitching about losing funding but they are using the mythical unfunded Labor figure for comparison. Some Catholic schools have applauded the latest legislation whilst others claim parents will need to stump up tens of thousands a year to keep their school open. The truth of the Catholic system is that the funds are given to Catholic Education which disburses the funds as they see fit. Nothing to do with government.
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
8:58pm
"Far too much misinformation to sully such a fine heart. "

That'll do, Pig... that'll do!
ex PS
4th Jul 2017
10:55am
Keep up the good work GranmaK, don't let the Right Wingnuts try to baffle you with insipid propaganda rhetoric.
You can tell the shonkies by their reliance on telling everyone what would have happened if this was the case or that was the case. They all seem to be experts after the case but can't seem to ever predict the immediate future.
Always good to hear original thoughts rather than recycled clap trap.
KSS
3rd Jul 2017
12:24pm
I am getting heartily sick of this constant 'bleating' about 2% tax cut for the rich. It is no such thing. The levy was introduced as a temporary measure on taxable income above $180k. It was to run from 1 July 2014 until the end of tax year 2016-2017. Note the top marginal rate is 45%! The timeframe is OVER!

All that has happened is that this extra levy has run its course and so comes to an end, thereby reverting those affected back to their 'usual' tax rate. For three years they have been paying over the odds and now it has ended.

Belly-aching about it as if this was an unforeseen act of largess to the 'wealthy' is disingenuous in the extreme. By all means, make a case for instituting a new levy or even raising the top marginal tax rate if you wish. But to look on the end of a TEMPORARY levy as something to which those affected are not entitled to expect is downright perverse.

And before you all start, I don't even earn 1/3rd of the salary of those affected so the levy did not apply to me (or indeed anyone I know).
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
1:16pm
It's a LOT LOT more than 2% KSS, as you well know.
There's the superannuation levy. Gone. There's the intention of pushing the corporate tax rate down to 25%...the BCA is talking about 15%. There's the offshore tax shelters for the very rich.
We are talking about a 'system' rather than a one off. Oh yes....we have a 'Budget Emergency' don't we?????
GrandmaKathleen22
3rd Jul 2017
1:36pm
My sister's son in law was hit with this tax. It amounted to $6000 and they said it was their annual holiday but a few months after saying that the whole family went to Paris. Yes, it was a temporary tax, but these people are not poor and are not homeless or going without anything not even a very expensive holiday.
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
8:35am
Who cares about the technicalities. The bottom line is that we need more tax revenue and if it comes from the battlers, we'll have more poverty and less money circulation, meaning less economic growth and more problems. If it comes from the wealthy, it means less wealthy hoarded off-shore and less work for the accountants who advise on how to dodge paying your way to the taxman! Which is better for society?
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
3:58pm
What a lot of rubbish! Rainey most of the tax is already paid by the wealthy and little if any paid by the battlers. Top 20% of income earners pay more than 80% of the tax. That is hardly fair. Most families earning $60,000 a year or less pay less than the benefits they receive.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:17am
The wealthy pay more tax because they can afford to - they still have massively more discretionary income and tax concessions already.. why shouldn't they contribute a proportion to the society that benefits them so well?

Tax Harry Fudger the Chocolate King $2Bn out of $5Bn and he still got $3Bn to play with .. tax Jo Bloggs $2Bn out of $45k, and she is in debt forever.....

Get your hand off it and get a grip on reality.
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:58am
OG, you have no idea do you? It is irrelevant what portion of total tax revenue is paid by the wealthy. What matters is that there is enough tax revenue to maintain a healthy society and that the burden is distributed in a manner that promotes social health. That REQUIRES progressive taxation that compels those who benefit most from society to pay the most to maintain its health. That was recognized by the founding fathers, who invented progressive taxation specifically in recognition that it was essential for society to prosper. Greed and stupidity has taken over now, and we have a mob of half-witted self-serving morons saying it's unfair to tax billionaires and we should take more from people on lower incomes. How idiotic!

As I said above, we need economic growth to reduce the problems of violence, crime, mental illness, disability, physical illness, addiction, etc. The ONLY way to stimulate economic growth is to tax the rich and put more money into the hands of those who will spend more. We need circulation. Indulging greedy well-to-do BLOCKS circulation, because they simply hoard the extra in tax havens.
HDRider
3rd Jul 2017
12:34pm
With a PM that stages his money in the Cayman islands showing that he has no faith in Australia, and then chucking a major tantrum saying if he doesn't win the election he will quit politics, is it any wonder we are in a bloody mess?
This man merely wanted PM on his resume and stabbed someone in the back to do it. This is the evil generation of politicians. May thru all go to Hell sooner rather than later!
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
1:17pm
The rich are not holding their money in offshore tax shelters for the fun of it. They are not choir boys but rather are avoiding our tax system....the tax system the rest of us are required to use.
Old Man
3rd Jul 2017
4:56pm
I agree in part HDRider. I don't believe that Turnbull really wanted the job of PM, I believe that his wife wanted him to get the job and now he is there he has achieved her goal without knowing what to do.
Old Man
3rd Jul 2017
5:59pm
And, I might add, Turnbull's comment about leaving should he lose his job is either aimed at Abbott to try and shut him up or it's blackmail. Should he get rolled ala Rudd/Gillard/Rudd and spits the dummy, a by-election could easily cost the Coalition his seat.
Not a Bludger
3rd Jul 2017
12:40pm
Where oh where is reality and commonsense - what twerp would try to define an economy as fair or unfair.

The economy is what it is - inanimate.

Just get a job (or volunteer) get on with it, stop whinging and, magically, you moaners will find that the glass Is actually half full (or more), not half empty.
jackie
3rd Jul 2017
1:06pm
Not a Bludger....You sound like a politician.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
1:19pm
There are very few jobs as most of them have been sent to India, New Zealand and the Philippines.
Easy to talk about the glass half full when you have plenty. I recall one Wayne Swan did the same with his projections based on an iron ore price of $180 per tonne. We all know where that ended.
DrPolymath
3rd Jul 2017
3:12pm
"Not a Bludger" - maybe not (and neither am I). But you should change your moniker to "No Compassion".
musicveg
3rd Jul 2017
10:59pm
So if everyone gets a job including all pensioners, those straight out of school, those on disability then everything will be hunky dory? I find it hard to believe that there are enough jobs, does anyone know the statistics?
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:16am
Not exactly - around 800,000 fully unemployed, times about two slightly employed occasionally, and around a million disabilities....

Out of a workforce of 12 million, that adds up around 3.4 million - or somewhere close to 30%.

On the other hand, there are less than 125,000 jobs available, many of which are part-time or Sean Key ones..... (you go out door to door and flog my stuff/idea/etc on a retainer)
musicveg
4th Jul 2017
2:10pm
So when all the 125,000 jobs are filled will they still want everyone off newstart? How is that going to happen? What happened to jobs and growth? Why are people always blaming those unemployed when clearly there are not enough jobs to go around? We need a government who lifts people out of poverty not further down into the gutter.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
4:43pm
Well - those not included in the mythical 125,000 will just have to go to medical experiments and soylent green....
jonty
3rd Jul 2017
12:56pm
Somehow a lot of older Australians think that the Lib./Nat. Party Coalition automatically have better values and are better money managers, and the conservative media keeps telling us that they are.
Words, words, words...just look at their actions and the mantra that somehow, sometime, the trickle-down effect will benefit us all.
It's all nonsense. When they get into government all they do is transfer public money to the Big Business sector through privatization, and try and slash and burn anything else that helps ordinary people live with a bit of dignity. That is the things like Medicare and Pensions that have been fought for long and hard by the Labor Party and others with a like minded social conscience.

The main things to remember are that the Liberals are the Big Business party whose only aim is to give as much as they can by any means necessary, to their Shareholders. The only qualification is greed. Oh and through the media which they own; continually 'blame the victim' and those least able to defend themselves, so as to blame them for a national debt which has spiraled out of control on this government's watch.
Secondly the National Party which only cares about the farming community, which is ok as far as it goes, but to be able to run a country like Australia with all its complexities which is nowadays mostly urbanized....I don't think so.

To run this country you need a government that considers everyone's predicament, not one that just considers the rich who 'rape and pillage' as did the Vikings of old.
This Conservative Coalition is not fit to govern as they are incapable of imagining walking in an ordinary persons shoes.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
1:20pm
They're the ones who believe the propaganda campaigns run during just about every election. Simple minded folk. Sad. Even after the past 5 years the same folk believe the spiel.
jackyd
3rd Jul 2017
2:19pm
Didn't you get the drift of Christopher Pine's recorded diatribe declaring the left now run the coalition.
Please leave out Conservative when now describing the Coalition.
gilstamp
3rd Jul 2017
3:39pm
jackyd, you must have a very distorted view of left and right in politics.
gilstamp
3rd Jul 2017
3:39pm
jackyd, you must have a very distorted view of left and right in politics.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:16am
The current lot couldn't run Pauline's fish and chip shop.... no wonder she holds the high ground despite her severe failings of thought and policy....
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
2:18pm
Give Pauline a chance to implement her policies before you say they have failed. She is a plain speaking politician, no gloves off, and most importantly cares about Australia as a Nation.

Always complaining about the Government at the time, be that Libs or Labor, is not helping. These 2 parties along with the Greens are Globalist through and through and their allegiance lies elsewhere. They will not change their outlook. Get that into your head and do the right thing and not vote for any of them.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
7:56pm
Voting consistently with the LNP and being blown about by the latest strongly phrased idea that is put to her is not the sign of a good politician.

Pauline - from Day One in Canberra - had a golden opportunity to make the following state, when invited for a chat with Mal:-

"You and I are equally elected representatives of the people - any position you hold above that is given to you by your party, not the people. Since we are equals in elected position, you are welcome to visit my office for a chat at any time - but let us be clear - you hold NO superior position to myself, apart from within your Party."

Newly elected politicians have no need to go cap in hand and kiss the ring of the party appointed prime minister or anyone else... they are all elected equally.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
7:58pm
Anyone else see the clear similarity with a feudal society? All new thanes and minor lords must go to the King and pledge their allegiance...... at his pleasure.....

Hello???? Any thinkers out there.. or am I alone?
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:46am
I've been saying for some time that we are moving toward a feudal society, and that the changes the government claims are intended to improve the budget bottom line (most of which we all know will do the opposite) are really changes to effect social re-engineering designed to restore feudal conditions.

In the US today it is formally recognized that it costs less for an employer to employ someone than it used to cost to own a slave. What does that say about society in what should still be the richest country on earth?
Julian
3rd Jul 2017
1:01pm
Either way, we are screwed. If you don't like the current and poor excuse for a government, what's the alternative?

The last labor stint was a disaster...and the next (currently in opposition) , with a seemlingly incompetent bunch of bumbling buffoons doesn't exactly exude confidence, ideas or any sort of sensible plan to fix anything.

Maybe its time to consider the upcoming minors...such as former lib Bernardi. At least he had the gonads to stand up for party values rather than than stand by and watch the right swing left, purely for Turnbull's political life, which is waning.

Either way, let's hope the next election is conducted with some intelligence.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
1:24pm
I have to disagree with you about Labor's stint. You are repeating what this bad bad government routinely puts out.
Labor helped keep the lights on during the GFC. Funny how people prefer the propaganda rather than the facts.
And the debt.....that was coming down. Check the figures for yourself. The coalition government is the one which ran up debt in the absence of any need (GFC) and continues to blame Labor for this. Perhaps they will claim the tax cuts for the rich are Labor's fault as well.
I would have thought that half a TRILLION dollars might be enough but apparently no amount is. Welcome to the mentally challenged.
GrandmaKathleen22
3rd Jul 2017
1:38pm
I have confidence in them. They are united, a nice team working well together. They are my choice at this time and I vote for whichever mob will do the right thing such as health, education, the environment and the vulnerable in our society! I research well.
jackyd
3rd Jul 2017
2:31pm
Julian, with you all the way.
As for any suggestion Rudd kept the lights on during the GFC is absurd. 170 billion dollar mining infrastructure boom, high immigration intake low interest rates is what kept Australia going. Certainly not clickers, pink bats and one off freebies.
MICK
3rd Jul 2017
3:59pm
I can't get over the simplistic BS you always hear from the right as they try to defend the indefensible.

Schools halls? Not all were bad as you make out but never let the facts get in the way of propaganda.

Pink batts? What a total beat up. The reason a couple of young apprentices dies was because of bosses who should never have been allowed on building sites. In case you have not noticed pink batts drive down energy needs and the money kept Australians working. Clearly you think throwing people out of work and bring the economy to a standstill was the way to go. The norm from coalition governments wanting to turn workers into slaves dependent on a few crumbs!

Mining boom? Please explain what Peter Costello did with mining boom money. Pay girls to go and get pregnant for a payment of $5000 and then put them on the lifetime social security bandwagon? Your k ind now blame Labor for the mess but what else is new.

By all means vote Liberal jackyd. It says something about you.
Old Man
3rd Jul 2017
5:02pm
You know what MICK, jackyd, GrandmaKathleen22 et al, I don't care about who made the mess or who made it bigger. The truth is that a mess has been made and somebody has to clean it up. We are wasting energy with a useless blame game when we should all be trying to work out a solution. See my post above about the 40%/40%/20% theory and let's all work on that.
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
3:29am
I agree about blame, Old Man. But the problem is that the current government is exacerbating the problems and refuses to even consider the logical solutions.

We need to improve the spending power of the poorest if we want economic growth, not load the coffers of those who hoard their wealth off-shore. Increasing the incomes of battlers means more spending to create more jobs, higher business profits, higher tax revenue - in an ever-increasing cycle. This government is doing the exact opposite, and therefore killing off economic growth.

It has been repeated over and over - and is just plain common sense - that if you give huge tax benefits to the rich to put money into super but effectively give 0 concession or actually punish the poor for saving in super, the effect will be the opposite of what the government CLAIMS to be striving for. Giving higher tax concessions to higher income earners is STUPID. But what does this government do? Ignore common sense AND the advice of experts and attack the poorest further, while doing nothing to resolve a problem that is very easily solved and that the majority agree should be addressed.

Forget about what Labor or past LNP governments did or didn't do. Let's focus on THIS mob of idiots and the destruction they are causing. The problem is that they are too focused on allocating blame (unfairly!) to be bothered FIXING THE PROBLEMS.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
4:45pm
Yeee-ussshh, Rainey - but each rich person is worth at least ten thousand peasants.... so the wishes of the blunt majority are inconsequent and irrelevant to the argument .. surely you know that by now in this classless society.....
Scottishlass
3rd Jul 2017
1:22pm
Yes I'm tired of being hit. I've always voted Liberal. And don't like labour. But I'm fed up with suffering from their bad decisions. I am worried at what labour calls wealthy though. As they seem to hit me either way. Am I middle class? I don't feel it. I'm struggling more and more. Hit the big earners. Wealthy. Not low and middle class. We have no more to give.
GrandmaKathleen22
3rd Jul 2017
1:39pm
Labor not labour as it is not the U.K.!
Sen.Cit.84
3rd Jul 2017
4:10pm
Your correct Granny, Australian Labor Party left 'U' out
niemakawa
3rd Jul 2017
7:40pm
Labour or Labor both hard.
Scottishlass
3rd Jul 2017
1:22pm
Yes I'm tired of being hit. I've always voted Liberal. And don't like labour. But I'm fed up with suffering from their bad decisions. I am worried at what labour calls wealthy though. As they seem to hit me either way. Am I middle class? I don't feel it. I'm struggling more and more. Hit the big earners. Wealthy. Not low and middle class. We have no more to give.
DrPolymath
3rd Jul 2017
3:17pm
Always voted Liberal? Then you deserve whatever they dish out.
GrandmaKathleen22
3rd Jul 2017
8:36pm
LABOR
MD
3rd Jul 2017
1:23pm
Please define - "the average Australian". Is it determined; by dollars in the bank, home value, number of cars (or make/model), investments, the suburb lived in, toys, eg, caravans & etc & etc: or conversely is it determined by the degree of an individual's reliance on the public purse, the number of pills 'popped' daily, visits to doctors, number of gripes and complaints or by age demographic ?
Lawdy, if it weren't for dstark, KSS and Not a Bludger in bringing some small degree of balance to this listless lamentation I'd seriously worry that nothing less than mass suicide, akin to that of lemmings will be the outcome. A 'final solution' no less. Well at least the upside to that would be that everyone else then gets on with living within their means and trying their respective best to make the most of it. Beware, airborne swine !
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:18am
A fine rant - now move on into reality...... it'll help.....
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
3:20am
Who isn't ''getting on with living within their means and trying their respective best to make the most of it'', MD?

Commenting and lobbying for improvement is a vital part of ''... trying their respective best''. We seek a better nation for our children and grandchildren and security for ourselves in old age. That's ''trying our respective best''. It's what we SHOULD be doing to help drive improvement in our society. It doesn't prevent or obstruct living within ones means and trying to make the most of it. It simply increases the chances that more folk will BE ABLE TO in the future.

Silence, approval or apathy ensures things will worsen. Those who do not speak out or who seek to condone wrong are responsible for social and economic deterioration. Do you wish to be a part of the group that perpetrates further harm?
Scottishlass
3rd Jul 2017
1:27pm
Ploliticians should be ashamed of themselves taking a payrise. Immoral , insulting and dishonest.
I think big changes are coming just like in America and UK. Next election.
Problem is Labour seems to hit the poor also and loook after themselves and their pals.
They should refuse the payrise, then I might look at them.
Farside
3rd Jul 2017
1:37pm
It must be disheartening for the ACTU while "71.5 per cent of the 2032 voters surveyed feel that the three major changes that came into effect on 1 July ‘benefit the wealthy over ordinary workers’", less than half of same respondents are likely to change their vote come the elections regardless of political persuasion.
GrandmaKathleen22
3rd Jul 2017
1:40pm
Well then people need to start to vote policies not parties!
niemakawa
3rd Jul 2017
8:44pm
Therin lies the problem. You can't blame the politicians for the stupidity of the people.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:19am
That's why they are called sheeple, Farsie.... they don't have the mind operating at election time....
ex PS
4th Jul 2017
11:01am
The problem is that people don't take into account changed circumstances when they vote. The best party for a working person may not be the best vote for that person once they retire, please don't vote out of habit, if you do you will most likely suffer for it.
arbee
3rd Jul 2017
2:47pm
The first question that should be asked was what exactly were the questions asked in the poll. It was commissioned by the ACTU so it is not hard to guess which way the questions were slanted. I have had numerous phone calls in the last 6 months for different polls and the results are influenced by the way the questions are structured by whoever has commissioned the poll
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:19am
Have to agree technically - but I sincerely doubt it would change the realities that are displayed.....
ex PS
4th Jul 2017
11:07am
Every poll taken has a result in mind before it is released, the questions are molded to obtain that result and even the socioeconomic areas are scrutinized to ensure the people partaking in the pol are sympathetic to a "positive" outcome. At best they are a good starting point for a conversation, at worst they deceive people into altering a viewpoint.
Fair Dinkum
3rd Jul 2017
2:54pm
I don't understand why people voted this labor government in in the A C T. They have crippled the low income people , pensioners and the people trying to get into there own home. They have conned us to believe that they are helping those who want to get into a home But the high increases in rates and many other taxes rego and the service fees ect that were not mentioned in there pre budget speeches are rising much more than the inflation rate or CPI. these are the things that are creating poverty for families plus there agreeing to large increases in electricity Water and gas. While all this is taken place they are accepting there pay increase at the expense of the poor.
Why do we need 27 ( i believe ) politicians to run a small place like Canberra with 400 thousand people. why are we Spending somewhere around 1 billion dollars to satisfy the Rat bury and his tram that the majority of Canberrans will not be able to use and that will probable become a white elephant in a few years. would have been better putting this money into the hospital system so we don't have to wait 12 months or longer to see a doctor in the outpatient clinic.
Appears to me this is the liberal government under the disguise of labor the sooner we can get rid of Barr and his cohorts the better. Bring in some one that is for the people and not themselves may be not the best choice but one nation or the conservative party could not do a worse job than labor Barr and and the Greens
gilstamp
3rd Jul 2017
3:45pm
When we moved from Canberra to Queensland, we had to pay double for rates and water. ACT is just catching up.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:21am
Wait one - does the ACT mini-government handle all the rates etc? Or are there local councils that do that?
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
1:27am
Liberals have morphed into Labor, there is vitually no distinction between the two They are both Globalist parties so their goals are virtually the same, a OWG.
ex PS
4th Jul 2017
11:10am
I think that both so called major parties have moved towards each others political agendas, Coles or Woolworths, pay your money and make your choice.
DrPolymath
3rd Jul 2017
3:06pm
"The Medicare levy increase of 0.5 per cent, effective from 1 July 2019, would not be required if the Government had kept the two per cent temporary budget repair levy and did not give the two per cent marginal income tax cut to high-income earners."

Typical scumbag Li(e)berals. Well, the majority voted for these bastards, and it's said we get the government we deserve...
thommo
3rd Jul 2017
3:16pm
This govt will get its comeuppance at the next election, something which has been long overdue.
Old Geezer
3rd Jul 2017
5:19pm
By who?
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
2:15am
Yes there may be a change in Government but I doubt there will be any noticeable change in policy. Out of the frying pan into the fire as the saying goes.
ex PS
4th Jul 2017
11:12am
By the people who are paying their wages, that's who. I am not for any particular party, but I am against those dishonest, unfair sycophants to Industry Moguls.
Old Man
3rd Jul 2017
4:36pm
Just a couple of facts that haven't been aired. The Temporary Levy was only passed by the Senate because labor imposed a sunset clause to ensure the levy was temporary. They put the date of 30/6/17 there and the government has stuck to the approval. Whilst it's all well and good to snipe at millionaires, the levy was against those who earned more than $180,000pa and I am not aware of too many millionaires who earn that sort of money. On the subject of politicians' pay packets, lifting this levy also gives them relief from the 2% as all of them now earn more than $180,000pa. As usual, Leon has been careful to only release enough information to suit his argument.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:22am
Hmmm - not sure if 'release of information' was required when everyone knows that......
trebor
3rd Jul 2017
5:26pm
i'm not happy with any of the parties involved ( labour, liberals, or the greens ) so where do I go from there ?????
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:23am
Et moi, my small lettered non-capital friend....
niemakawa
3rd Jul 2017
6:24pm
"Life wasn't meant to be easy" Now who said that!!!
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:23am
Malcolm Fraser.. but how would he know?
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
1:53am
He doesn't want to get caught with his pants down!!!
Rainey
4th Jul 2017
8:13am
Except it WAS easy until stupid power-crazed bureaucrats and politicians and lawyers stuffed it all up and deliberately made it hard!
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:19am
Good point, Rainey...
Old Geezer
4th Jul 2017
3:43pm
Life hard you have to be joking. We are living in the best time in history today.
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
3:45pm
OG you must walk around wearing blinkers. Don't talk garbage.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
4:48pm
It was the best of times.. it was the worst of times.... a Tale of Two Cities separated by a common language.... and the absolute inability and unwillingess of one city to even begin to perceive the plight of the other.... but instead to choose to plunder and pillage it....

A house divided against itself cannot stand....
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
3:48pm
Everywhere I look people are living very well indeed. Never have there been such variety of goods to buy at such cheap prices.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:21am
Only because they have to.... bought a cheap set of drill bits once, they last about five seconds....

They're getting by, OG - not living well....
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:42am
Take off the rose coloured glasses, OG. They are distorting your view of the world.
Old Geezer
6th Jul 2017
11:17am
Nothing wrong with my glasses but I think others need a new prescription for theirs.
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
12:08pm
If it's not your glasses at fault, you must be blind - either physically or psychologically, or both. You certainly don't see the world as it is OG.
TREBOR
3rd Jul 2017
7:03pm
And so it goes on - Big Plan is for 10,000 'Interneeships' - meaning exploitation of those who are currently unemployed and on benefits and who will have no choice in the matter, with lower pay for the same work and zero guarantee of a job.

No change on any other front except you can expect a steady decline in living standard for the majority while real unemployment goes up, and economic divisions within this nation grow and grow - hopefully to breaking point.
musicveg
3rd Jul 2017
11:30pm
After reading all the comments I cannot see anyone has answered the question 'How do the 1 July changes effect you?' If we all have to tighten our purse then spending will slow down and the effect on the economy will be negative I would suspect.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
1:26am
No man is an island,
Entire of itself .......

Anyone who cannot see that trends build an inevitable tsunami needs an tsunami early warning system installed.......

Send not to know for whom the cyber bell tolls
As the tsunami builds....
It tolls for thee......

(with apologies to Gerard Manley Hopkins).
Rae
4th Jul 2017
8:41am
Yes. They don't effect me although I object to welfare and wage increases while my incomes keep falling. I sacked the lawnmower man a while back. Am cutting spending and altering investments to get out of the sharemarket. The bond market is calling a world recession and it is usually right.

I've increased savings and am getting ready for increased electricity and perhaps stagflation.

Food costs are rising and will get dearer with the electricity increases. I'm certainly not wasting money on coffees and cakes and eating out. Or buying anything I really don't need.
Scottishlass
4th Jul 2017
1:50am
Yes most people I know will have to tighten their purse strings. We are poorer now with the July 2017 changes. Budgeting is on everyone's minds so we can survive. The economy will be effected. They are certainly not trying to stimulate the economy. And that's a worry.
I remember them asking us to spend. To stimulate the economy. And giving lump sums to low income earners for them to spend. Now they are taking, and we are not spending.
It's a worry for businesses and the economy will surely suffer.
niemakawa
4th Jul 2017
1:56am
All will be revealed eventually, when the kitty is totally empty. We need a Government who takes a Nationalistic stance, Globalism has failed Australia and its people.
Rae
4th Jul 2017
1:38pm
Apparently we have nothing to worry about. Spending is up.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:33pm
Depends on where that spending is going and why....
Ductape
4th Jul 2017
10:09am
Do I think this Government is falling out of touch with the majority? No I don't....they've been out of touch for years!
Liverpool Anne
4th Jul 2017
10:22am
After watching Poldark on ABC last Sunday where one of the characters became a Magistrate, he now has powers of basically life and death over the people. And is using it. Reminded me of our Pollies, nothing has changed, they have the power, and they use it, to do as they please, as one said a number of years ago, "promise them everything, and when you are elected do what you want. Needless to say I didn't vote for him
Old Geezer
4th Jul 2017
2:04pm
Be thankful you live today not back in the time of Poldark. Things are just so much better today for everyone.
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:39am
Not for long the way things are going!
Old Geezer
6th Jul 2017
10:42am
We are a long way from not being able to afford food to prevent scurvy.

If you really want to know how bad things can get take yourself off to places in the world like Cuba and part of Africa where people actually starve to death. That is not happening here and if it is then it is of people's own choices.
AutumnOz
6th Jul 2017
11:56am
You are wrong OG, our population is already 6 million over the sustainable level for Australia, water is short in rural areas, and if the food from overseas stops coming we'll all feel the pinch.

There are already thousands of our Australian people being fed by soup kitchens every day, for many that is their only meal.

Wake up to reality and stop spreading lies about how good life is for all people in this country.
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
4:26am
OG, the fact that you can point to someone worse off does not justify inequity or deterioration of lifestyle in our own country. Decent Australians want our society to offer improved lifestyles to ALL Australians and are concerned about the deterioration we are seeing in our society. We care about what happens elsewhere. We would like to see improvements in quality of life for all people everywhere. But pointing to poorer nations or even poorer groups in our own nation to try to justify or excuse the deterioration here is merely an indication of arrogance and lack of decency.

We CAN do better. We can reform our education systems to teach people how to generate income, budget, and save. We can reform our wage structure and working conditions to make work more rewarding. We can teach people to be more innovative and creative. We can reform our society to drive a greater focus on family and community. We can educate society that contributing as much as you can to social health, via taxes, is an honour and that dodging obligations is shameful and should be punished harshly - not applauded.

We can only do any of these things if we care about the health of society and respect our fellow man enough to appreciate that those who we see as failing are victims of a society that has failed them. They are NOT making excuses. They are trying to explain how society has let them down and why they feel helpless. They are asking for a hand up - not the suppressive hand out they are currently receiving, given with contemptuous dismissal and cruel judgement.

But to fix anything, we need to unite. Whether we are well off or poor - whether we have succeeded through good luck or hard work. We need to stop judging and justifying and start working toward common understanding and empathy. The fact that so many here are unhappy shouts loudly that something is seriously wrong. It won't be fixed by blaming or condemning. It won't be fixed by competing, chest-beating or gloating. It will only be fixed when everyone decides to listen, care, and seek a solution that is a win for all.

It's nice that you are so well off and happy, OG. So am I. It's commendable that some of us got to be well off and happy by hard work and responsible living. But we were lucky to be able to learn how to do that. We were lucky to have opportunity. We owe it to society to refrain from gloating and judging - to listen to those who haven't got it so good and figure out ways to genuinely help them help themselves - and to lobby for greater fairness and better social health.
Bonny
8th Jul 2017
8:16am
The majority of people putting too much energy into whinging and very little into doing something about their circumstances. Sadly we have a society that rewards this with our over generous welfare and laws. Easiest way for a woman to make money is shack up with a lovely wealthy man and milk him for all he's got. This is so unhealthy for an economy. No wonder people have to hide assets to protect themselves. If people continue to fleece others instead for thier own personal gain no wonder our society is sufferring and people are not happy. The buck starts with infividual to make society a better place for all not our government.
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
8:59am
I'll say it again. The problem is a welfare system that is designed to keep the disadvantaged down and a privileged class who applaud that strategy because they desire superiority and to enslave the poor.

Yes, society rewards indolence and irresponsible lifestyles, and it harshly punishes endeavour. But that's precisely the stupid unproductive approach that you, Bonny, support with your rantings about the changed asset test. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! Read your own statement. ''No wonder people have to hide assets to protect themselves.'' Doesn't that give you a hint that changing the assets test was blatantly idiotic? It MAKES more people hide assets.

The buck starts with the individual - to COMPEL the government to make policy that improves society rather than destroying it, and that's precisely why people complain. That and voting is the ONLY power they have in this corrupt society.

Tightening welfare won't help. It will only create more poverty and social problems. We need to be MORE generous to the genuinely disadvantaged. But we also need to give the strivers a hand up, by NOT stripping them of everything they work for and punishing their every effort to rise above their current status. If you keep bashing people down for earning and saving, nobody will. Loosen the purse strings - recognizing that giving people spending power boosts the economy. Stop punishing those who strive. Let people benefit fairly for effort and more people will try. Then implement education programs to help and inspire. Stop judging and blaming the victims of social failure. Stop applauding tax cheats and manipulators and instead applaud and honour those who pay tax at the top rates. Start focusing on social health rather than the budget bottom line and boosting the coffers of the wealthy.

Yes, it IS our government's responsibility. But we can all help, if only the self-serving judgmental would shut up and stop beating up on everyone who is struggling to improve both their circumstances AND the society they live in.

I repeat, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. By beating up on people who have tried to improve their circumstances and have been moderately successful, the government (and folk like you) are ensuring fewer people will make the effort and more will put their hands out for pensions. It's IDIOTIC. But sadly all the informed populace can do is whinge. The fools in government are just too arrogant.
Triss
11th Jul 2017
3:15pm
Yes and no, Bonny. The real problem is that constant tax cuts for the wealthy is the modern welfare for the wealthy.
Tax cuts and other benefits are going straight to the people who need it least.
If government decides we can afford billions in tax cuts then it would be better to spread it wider instead of it being grabbed by the top end of town.
The huge amount of tax cuts, cuts in penalty rates, and cuts to pensions will just transfer said huge amounts to the wealthy...MPs and bureaucrats have already creamed off a hefty salary rise and we're still waiting for the rest of the fat cats to scream for rises in salary and entitlements.
GrumpyOldMan
4th Jul 2017
10:49am
Well this one stirred up the broth didn't it? I'm just so disappointed that when the careers advisors visited the schools when I was in high school they didn't fully explain the immense benefits of pursuing politics as a vocation. Just think. We could have been the ones making the decisions. We would have a job that even if we were sacked we would be paid for the rest of our lives at a level commensurate with with the current sitting members. Free travel Then if we got sick of just sitting around we could take up a new job and our pension wouldn't be affected. And all that honest back breaking work that you would be forced to carry out while you were employed. The hardest part would be ensuring that every benefit you were entitled to would forever be protected. I've heard a few pollies saying that they are there only to serve their constituents. So is that how you feel about you representative? People on here are asking what can the low paid and pensioners do about the current situation? Just ask your candidates what they intend to do that will benefit you and vote accordingly. Forget the major parties. It only takes a few minutes on-line to see which are the most prosperous countries for all residents in the world and OZ isn't one of them. Free education even at tertiary levels, health systems that don't demand you have private insurance, retirees who don't have to scratch just for basics. Our pollies know who they are. They also know what it takes to achieve this. Will they follow these leaders? If not, why not. As a Tassie reident, Jacqui Lambie has our vote. Why? Her opinions on pensioner rates and treatment. And don't get me started on electricity, fuel prices, etc. Time for some serious thinking people.
Pedro
4th Jul 2017
12:36pm
I agree 100% with all comments regarding this present Gov' s selfish attitude to lower paid workers and pensioners. Unfortunately it not good enough to simply complain on paper; we need to voice our opinions en masse to local members and demand a meaniful reply. However I think for this government its way too late. I just hope the people that voted this lot in will be looking at an alternative next time around. This government has been a failure to most, except their greedy, hypocritical work mates.


Peter
Old Geezer
4th Jul 2017
2:02pm
I disagree as I think no matter how much people including those on welfare it will never be enough. Government is not near as selfish as people themselves.
Rainey
5th Jul 2017
5:27am
Couldn't agree more, Pedro. We have a selfish, self-serving, greedy, arrogant and USELESS ruling and wealthy class whose goal is to enslave those born to disadvantage and ensure nobody can rise above the station they were born to. Nothing is ever enough for the wealthy. They whine about paying tax and dodge it at every turn. They engage in rip-offs, corruption, dishonesty and exploitation at every opportunity. And then they point the finger at the disadvantaged and try to blame them for all the troubles of the world. Sick mongrels, all of them! (OG included!)
Rainey
5th Jul 2017
5:29am
Who is it cutting the incomes of battlers everywhere while giving themselves and their rich cronies big pay rises and tax cuts, OG? Says it all. Proves you are full of it!
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
3:46pm
No one is cutting the incomes of the battlers as they have little if any income.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:22am
... so a $30 loss is a disaster for them...

Get your hand off it and get a grip on reality instead....
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:38am
Really, OG? Then that makes the greed of the snout-in-the-trough pigs giving themselves loads more all the more vile and disgusting!

Yes, as Trebor says, Get your hand off it and get a grip on reality instead....
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
10:16am
Of course it's clearly apparent, OG, that your objective is to ensure the battlers - and even those who have succeeded in rising above battler status and accumulating a decent savings nest egg - have neither income nor capital, and therefore are left to beg or starve. Please do us all a favour and take your cruel, selfish, nasty comments somewhere else. Most commenting here are respectful and have human decency. You are thoroughly out-classed and out of step.
Old Geezer
6th Jul 2017
10:39am
Rainey I have no problem with battlers but I do have issues with those who do whatever they can to get something they don't need. Battlers have little or nothing so government gives to them not takes form them. If you have a decent nest egg you are not a battler but able to look after yourself without putting out your hand for others less fortunate than yourself to pay your way in life. These people only beg because they want more and more no matter what they have. I have an extended family full of these people and they only contact me when they want something. Obviously you think it is Ok for these people to behave like this but I simply do not. I'm not the one who is outclassed or out of step here at all. These people are the ones who are selfish, cruel and get very nasty like children when they don't get what they want.
AutumnOz
6th Jul 2017
12:06pm
OG, unless you know the full circumstances of people, especially your own extended family, you cannot make a judgment about them putting their hand out for help when they do not need help.

Please don't judge people by a skewed perspective, most are honest and hard working and try to do the right thing, the others are to be pitied because they do not have the skills to keep themselves without getting into debt.

We are either born with that skill or without it, unfortunately it isn't something anyone without the skill can learn through experience - it doesn't work that way they just get deeper and deeper into the mire of debt because they can't work out what to do.
Perhaps that is why your extended family turns to you for help as they know you have the skill to help them.
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
12:14pm
OG, judgemental people are a scourge on the earth. You know nothing about the people you judge and condemn. You operate on WRONG ASSUMPTIONS and are too ignorant and self-opinionated to listen and learn. If you stopped being so nasty, you might discover that everything is not the black and white you perceive. If your extended family are what you claim, then you should stop assuming that everyone is like the scumbags you are related to. Most of us are far better than you and your relations. And stop making stupid assumptions about what I think. You have absolutely no idea, and you are obviously far too arrogant and self-opinionated to bother listening or reading to find out. Get your snout out of the trough and pay attention to the world; You might actually learn something.
Old Geezer
6th Jul 2017
2:56pm
Ha ha what a lot of rubbish and excuses! I know exactly what goes on in the real world. I see right through all those excuses and judge people for what they are not what they want me to believe. There is simply no excuse for getting into debt.
Rainey
7th Jul 2017
11:41am
Showing your supreme ignorance, OG. Who said anything about getting into debt? Not me! You can't even respond to the comments made. You are so wrapped up in your artificial world and your stupid judgements that you can't see past your scumbag relatives, and your own affluence. You just ASS-U-ME that everyone is like the scum you associate with.
Bonny
8th Jul 2017
8:07am
Agree debt is the biggest problem of many people. Keep out of personal debt and you will live a good life without all those unnecessary things people buy using debt.
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
9:08am
You and OG really do have a serious comprehension problem, don't you Bonny? Who is talking about personal debt? Avoiding debt if you can is common sense. It DOES NOT guarantee a good life, and it's not always possible. Some debt is, in any case, a good thing. Most of us wouldn't own homes in retirement if we didn't borrow to buy them. And I wouldn't have a healthy, well-educated child working for a professional wage and paying taxes if I hadn't incurred huge debt to pay for medical treatment. Paying that back was hard, but I don't regret it for an instant and I'd go into debt again in a heartbeat to achieve that outcome.

But this conversation isn't about persona debt. It's about government debt and unfair economic policy. Please can you at least try to stay on track? I understand you are a troll and desperate to block conversation that points to the failings of the idiot politicians you are paid to defend, but your ridiculous contradictory rantings are really tiring - and your motive is very apparent to nearly all. You really are wasting your time here.
Ginaus
4th Jul 2017
1:37pm
get real... we did not vote for these idiots to give themselves pay rises and tax cuts. Squeezing every cent out of the working Aussies... and not giving any assistance back, when required.... disgusting
Old Geezer
4th Jul 2017
2:10pm
I think they are unpaid for the job they do and the sort of people attracted to Parliament.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:20pm
That's 'underpaid', OG, and you are still wrong.

Here's a chart for you - try reading it...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11650588/Leaders-of-the-fee-world-which-country-has-the-highest-paid-MPs.html

Australia ranks 2nd in the 'free world' for paying its parasites in parliament ..... after Italy - now that gives me pause....
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:34pm
You can multiply that salary figure by about 12.5 times to incorporate their perks......... it costs around $2.5m a year for each politician.....
Rainey
5th Jul 2017
5:23am
You would have to be totally deluded and thoroughly ignorant to think our pollies were underpaid - much less that pay attracts good people. It's the opposite. The generous rewards attract the greedy, self-opinionated, self-interested incompetents who could never make that sort of money on their own account.

The way to attract better politicians is to make the job totally voluntary - no pay or benefits. Sure, that would exclude all but the already well-to-do, but at least it would mean they go into it to SERVE THE NATION rather than to line their coffers with unearned gold.
Kaz
5th Jul 2017
8:48am
They say if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys - that doesn't seem to be true here!
Old Geezer
5th Jul 2017
11:02am
Yes Rainey Pollies are underpaid. I for one wouldn't take on the job for what they get paid as my time is fair more valuable than that.
TREBOR
6th Jul 2017
2:25am
We all heartily applaud your decision not to engage in political appointment on behalf of the people..... your refusal to stand marks you as a true gem of Australian politics and democracy and as a real benefit to the people of this nation.....

I give you.. Old Geezer! Give him a round of applause....
Rainey
6th Jul 2017
9:34am
A good reason to reduce pollies' pay, OG - to keep arrogant, contemptuous and self-serving people like you FIRMLY OUT! We DO NOT want people like you, and your comment is proof positive that my statement is valid. Reducing or eliminating pay would attract more of the kind of people we need running the country - people with sincere intent to SERVE and respect for the majority.
Old Geezer
10th Jul 2017
1:59pm
Gee Rainey I was thinking about a pollies job not for the money but to bring our over generous welfare system under control.
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
6:45am
God help us if nasty people like you start making policy based on totally wrong ASS-U-MEs about the disadvantaged! Our welfare system certainly need bringing under control, but only because it's over-generous to the wrong people and far too mean in the areas where it should be offering support. The first thing needed is the very thing you oppose - restructure to preserve incentive and reward and stop it being a disincentive to hard work and responsible living.

You will not fix this nation by bashing either (or both) the needy and those who have worked hard to achieve modest asset levels, but not sufficient to be self-supporting through retirement. The rich have to pay their way for a change. That is the ONLY solution.

Pensions and unemployment benefits need to increase. Assets tests should be abolished, so that people have an incentive to save. Income tests might be tightened a little, as they are very generous. Politicians, senior bureaucrats, company senior executives and directors, and most doctors and lawyers need to have their incomes slashed. We need to make health and legal services affordable for all.

The major need is for education and fair opportunity relative to ability. We need an end to the reliance on paper qualifications and letters after names and hard-to-obtain licenses, and to give people with talent access to opportunities to use it. We need to encourage innovation and creativity. We need to reward responsible living and genuine endeavour.

Bashing the victims of social failure won't fix anything. But of course the privileged would never want to really fix the problem - only to persecute the victims of their greed and selfishness.
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
6:45am
God help us if nasty people like you start making policy based on totally wrong ASS-U-MEs about the disadvantaged! Our welfare system certainly need bringing under control, but only because it's over-generous to the wrong people and far too mean in the areas where it should be offering support. The first thing needed is the very thing you oppose - restructure to preserve incentive and reward and stop it being a disincentive to hard work and responsible living.

You will not fix this nation by bashing either (or both) the needy and those who have worked hard to achieve modest asset levels, but not sufficient to be self-supporting through retirement. The rich have to pay their way for a change. That is the ONLY solution.

Pensions and unemployment benefits need to increase. Assets tests should be abolished, so that people have an incentive to save. Income tests might be tightened a little, as they are very generous. Politicians, senior bureaucrats, company senior executives and directors, and most doctors and lawyers need to have their incomes slashed. We need to make health and legal services affordable for all.

The major need is for education and fair opportunity relative to ability. We need an end to the reliance on paper qualifications and letters after names and hard-to-obtain licenses, and to give people with talent access to opportunities to use it. We need to encourage innovation and creativity. We need to reward responsible living and genuine endeavour.

Bashing the victims of social failure won't fix anything. But of course the privileged would never want to really fix the problem - only to persecute the victims of their greed and selfishness.
Jtee
4th Jul 2017
8:15pm
How about some fairness? Instead of a percentage of salary as an increase, it should be a standard amount, e.g. $10, $20, $30, etc pw. The percentage increase unfairly benefits those on higher incomes. 2% to a politician means thousands $ pa. 2% to an average worker or pensioner amounts to a very much smaller increase and I know who would have the greater benefit. Every small amount means a lot when you have limited income.
TREBOR
4th Jul 2017
11:21pm
Good idea.......
Kaz
5th Jul 2017
8:46am
Great idea!
Kaz
5th Jul 2017
8:44am
The greens support the coalition regularly and it's hard to see any consistency. At least you know where Pauline's support is going - even though it is ill informed. This govt is for the top half and although we're meant to be an egalitarian society, we don't put it into practice at a policy level. I am happy to pay extra if it means helping those more vulnerable. Billionaires can have a comfy life and never spend all their money so there's no need to help them save tax. If they don't like where the govt spends it, they can protest the govt to give it to causes that empower societies, not themselves. "It's time" for another Whitlam (without GG interference!)
TREBOR
5th Jul 2017
4:42pm
Indeed - people always forget in amongst all the rhetoric and propaganda that 'Robin Hood Taxes' only come about because of the Sheriffs of Nottingham...
JAID
7th Jul 2017
2:55pm
Penalty rates are a bandaid attempting to make an unfit system workable.

The challenge is an increasing one; it is to have all who can work, work (in the face of changing technologies, changing workplaces and changing job availability) and at the same time to have all enjoy the product the nation enables.

Wealth is largely in the eyes of the beholder, contentment, happiness and fulfillment to ones capability are better measures. Better measures for both those who complain of poor treatment and those who mete it.
JAID
9th Jul 2017
2:39pm
If the nation had the above AND flexible workplaces, flexible relations and flexible customs the penalty rate bandaid would not have the necessary character it may have become for some. It is essentially an unfair limitation on freedom.

Certainly in any marketplace dearth of supply will have some paid more for the same job at different times but to have this coordinated and mandated through the collaboration of government and vested interests (in this case the unions) acts against what can be expected of a truly free society.

That said, it is clear enough that some rely upon this income. That is what needs be addressed (by both individuals and government) rather than continuation of a damaging mandate. And it is a damaging mandate as penalty rates actually enforce work for some at times they do not appreciate and at rates which may not even compensate, enforce payment rates which are not sustainable by business, reduce the work accessible, reduce the growth in responsibility and negotiating competence in all involved undermine normal work rates and limit choice.

Penalty rates grew from a mindset that government should have control over the lives of the individuals who own it. They grew as a tool by which doctrinaire political bandits could exert control.

Pay appropriately across the board and negotiate special rates where that is necessary to attract labour.
Radish
7th Jul 2017
4:33pm
Can someone tell me what is the criteria to be called "wealthy" in Australia today.
Is it someone earning over $180K which Bill Shorten says??

I believe it is only a small percentage of people. We need to get things in perspective.

Most people I believe are middle class...not wealthy at all.
Bonny
8th Jul 2017
8:04am
According to ATO high wealth individuals are those who control $30 million or more. That excludes the big majority in this country.
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
8:40am
Sounds like the ATO is way out of touch. Anyone with a few million or more is wealthy. Anyone with a salary of $200K or above SHOULD be wealthy - unless they are wasteful.

Australians earning just $80K a year are better off than 50% of the population. If you are in the top 20% of income-earners, you are wealthy. If you have enough assets to generate income to be in the wealthiest half of the population without actively working, you are wealthy.

Yes, let's get things in perspective. Wealth is entirely relative. If you are better off than 70% of the population, you are wealthy by any sensible definition.
JAID
8th Jul 2017
11:34am
Your figures seem about right to me Rainey. (Not that I have any particular distaste for wealth or what it can help achieve.)

It amuses me though that we don't regard an $80k per year income as a high one just because nearly every ordinary teacher from day one (not including their extra holidays and benefits) and most local, state and federal public servants start at around that. Apart from particular professions (eg. dentistry and medicine) and the finance/insurance/media industries it is still a lot of money in the outside world (ie. outside the (over-the-barrel) government inspired and co-ordinated trough)
ArtStone
7th Jul 2017
5:06pm
Look we all have to face some tough facts here! Firstly, don't rely on the Labor Party to come to your rescue they are the Libs only under a different name! Remember what Shorten and the backroom boys did to Kevin when he wanted a superprofit mining tax? It only showed who really is running this country and it ain't us the ordinary guy! Secondly, what can you expect when rich people run the Media and are in Politics? Trump may be an arse but he was/is telling the truth when he says the Media lies! You can't trust them to inform correctly fully or even partly! They deliberately omit, censure, and plain out lie when it suits. So what is the answer? PEOPLE POWER!! We can get the right results if we ALL unite and are on the same page with respect to Government Policy that is unfair, discriminatory and or false, if we refuse to accept it by en mass writing, protesting, agitating and doing whatever else it takes and we keep this up, then they have to listen and follow our policies whether they like it or not. I suspect they won't but tough its long overdue for them to start representing everybody not just the rich. Its about time they managed the economy properly so that there are no unemployed, no homeless, no underpaid, no disadvantaged Pensioners, no inadequate health care. This can be done it means though the rich will have to give up a bit which will be a nice change from them taking more and more from more and more of the poor!!!! One of the Independents a while back started calling those in control as Psychopaths, she stopped using that term not shortly after, I presume she was threatened because it hit the target too well. I think she and others should start to use that term again and apply it to anyone who thinks its OK to cause misery and suffering and yes in some circumstances death (suicide) to an increasing number of people by policies that cause unemployment, that cause GFC's, that cause inadequate funding to health and to the Pensioners. Anybody in agreement with those types of draconian policies does not have the well being of the majority at heart they are by definition Sociopaths for those who truly don't understand or by neglect or inaction are responsible and Psychopaths for those who do know exactly what they are doing and by purposeful wanton action cause harm to those less well off! So a difficult decision we all have to stand up to them, we all have to do something or we are by inaction one of them and we get whatever these bastards decide to throw at us!
musicveg
7th Jul 2017
8:20pm
Join GetUP and Market Forces, Check out Bernie Sanders in the USA and Jeremy Corbyn UK, people have to stop being so complacent, we need major changes to the way the country and world is run.
Bonny
8th Jul 2017
8:19am
I am very happy with July 1st changes and would like to see more tighting of welfare in future budgets especially the OAP. It's still way too generous for those with assets.
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
8:32am
Sure Bonny. Let's destroy the country completely and then see how you and your arrogant greedy rich mates fare! How stupid are those who want to deprive the hard-working of all benefits of their efforts and remove incentive for others to strive? Intelligent folk understand that ultimately the rich will hurt worst. This kind of ill-advised, self-serving policy results in more crime, more illness, more poverty, more abuse, more addiction, and ultimately often civil war. And guess who comes out of that worst off?
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
8:34am
A smart government would recognize that pensions for all deliver incentive for people to strive and allow the passing on of wealth to future generations.

The assets test is STUPID. It punishes those who work hard and save and rewards those who don't. It destroys all incentive and instead begs for more people to spend up big on luxury overseas cruises and expensive homes and put their hands out for pensions. It's DUMB DUMB DUMB!
Bonny
8th Jul 2017
2:21pm
Country is being destroyed by a welfare system that is way too generous.
musicveg
8th Jul 2017
7:29pm
I disagree with you Bonny, the country is being ruined by our politicians who are the second highest paid politicians in the world! Not too mention the tax breaks the multi national companies get and the 95% of gas, coal and mining industries not paying any tax.
You are not up to date with welfare at all, only what you hear on the media, it is hard to even find a rental which does not take half of your welfare income. If you want more crime, less spending and more homeless people then you will get this if welfare is not increased. There are only 125,000 jobs available and more than 800,000 thousand unemployed. What kind of society do you want Bonny? Rainey understands what makes a better society, get in the real world not the one you view with a closed mind and heart.
Bonny
8th Jul 2017
7:54pm
Most of those 800,000 do not want to work so there are plenty of jobs for thosevwho want them. Housing is a problem because everyone wants a four bedroom 2 bathroom house and are not prepared to share with others. Years ago 2 or 3 families lived in such a house but not any more. That is not a better society at all but one b where greed has taken over.
Rainey
10th Jul 2017
8:45am
How the hell would you know what those 800,000 people want and why, Bonny? What an arrogant, presumptuous statement! Clearly the excuse the privileged SCUM use to justify an unfair economy and bad social and economic policies.

Give those 800,000 a reasonable opportunity to work at a safe, reasonably satisfying job with decent pay and I will bet you 95%+++ would jump at it. But with only 125,000 jobs available, and a massive mismatch of qualifications, what hope do they have?

Years ago, the government operated a scheme called the New Enterprise Incentive Scheme (NEIS). It was designed to help unemployed people start businesses. But if you had been unsatisfactorily employed part time, or had taken casual work whenever it was available, you were disqualified. Only those who sat on their butts for years doing absolutely nothing and making no effort qualified. That's the problem in our society. It's NOT welfare - which is grossly inadequate and cruelly managed so that it's destroying social harmony. It's STUPID policies that punish incentive, provide no encouragement, and deny people both education and opportunity.

I know folk who didn't want to work. Why? Because they were highly intelligent, incredibly skilled, innovative, and energetic. They were also suffering bad backs and broken rotators from past exertion. And because they were denied education and refused any kind of skills training, they were expected to dig ditches or lump heavy loads 38 hours a week for a net pay (after the costs of getting to work and protective clothing and union dues) of less than unemployment benefits. I wouldn't work either in that environment. Several cheated the system, claiming benefits and working, while getting a business off the ground that eventually did very well and supported their family plus employed others. A harsher system would have prevented them achieving that.

Goodness, I know a man who was diagnosed with severe PTSD and major other psychological problems due to severe abuse and deprivation in an institution in childhood. Smart man, but no education and no skills training opportunity. Worked at low-paid, physically strenuous jobs for 40 years. When he suffered back and shoulder injury at 64, a Centrelink employee - aged 26, uni educated and dripping diamonds - declared he could be ''phased back into the workforce over 3 years with counselling, physiotherapy and compulsory voluntary work 3 days a week''. When he protested, she declared him ''lazy'' and ''not wanting to work''. Maybe her name was Bonny? Sounds like she shared your disgustingly stupid and arrogant attitude, Bonny!

The bottom line is most of the 800,000 DO want to work. They just want a fair go. But a society that increasingly demands fancy bits of paper before you can get an interview and slaps people down for taking casual work while struggling to find satisfactory employment is making it harder and harder for the less advantaged, and selfish nasty people like Bonny and OG judging and condemning is destroying the fighting spirit of those who battle on despite the challenges.

On the housing issue, I'll agree - but blame the government and its advisers, and the media, for the lies being told to young folk and the greed of the building industry. It's time to tell the truth - that it's no harder today than at most times in history (probably easier!) but expectations are too high - and not just expectations of housing size and quality, but of lifestyle generally.
Old Geezer
10th Jul 2017
11:43am
Economic statistics tell us that a healthy economy will have 4% unemployed as these people don't want to work. Many of those 800,000 fall into this category. Those you talk about don't but want the taxpayer to support them anyway.
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
4:42am
What a stupid response, OG! We have way more than 4% unemployed. Actually, we are closer to 25% unemployment if you correctly count underemployment. And who the hell do you think you are to ASSUME that the unemployed don't want to work? You are the most arrogant and nasty person I've ever encountered. I could point to hundreds I know personally who desperately want to work but cannot find jobs.

My partner and I struggled for several years taking any casual job we could find, desperate for a permanent job. Ultimately, we started a business and we HAD TO cheat on unemployment to survive long enough to get it off the ground. But pigs assumed we didn't want to work also, because it eased their conscience to lie to themselves about the social problems THEIR greed created.

Things are far worse now than they were back then. Unemployment has skyrocketed. Factories have closed. Farms have become unviable. You are WRONG OG, and you are making things worse by your WRONG attitude.

I know a handful of people want the taxpayer to support them - and I also know that most of them would happily go to work if society hadn't dealt them heavy blows that made them feel helpless, or if society offered them reasonable incentive instead of punishment for striving. The majority WANT to work. They just want a fair go.

We once had only 4% unemployed. Nobody will convince me that changed because 20% suddenly randomly decided - for no reason at all - that they would rather be on welfare. That's the premise you ask us to accept, OG, and it's IDIOTIC! The jobs disappeared. The incentives were removed. The victims of economic collapse lost hope. When the stinking privileged who want to excuse their own greed and selfishness by blaming the victims of economic failure recognize that fact, we might have a hope of solving the problem. But we have to first acknowledge that the 800,000++++ WANT TO WORK, and start focusing on ways to create opportunity, instead of blaming and punishing them for what the RICH ARE DOING WRONG.
Triss
11th Jul 2017
3:44pm
Bonny, "Years ago 2 or 3 families lived in such a house but not any more." They were called slums, Bonny, that's not something anyone with any human dignity wants to go back to.
According to government data there are 190,000 job vacancies so there are not plenty of jobs for those that want them.
Rainey
8th Jul 2017
9:26am
What I'm most tired of is the arrogant, self-serving judgmental minority who would rather waste their time defending the indefensible and blaming the victims of unfair policy than focusing on solutions.

People aren't perfect. Everyone has the capacity to improve their circumstances to some extent, but when you have a government that is constantly bashing those who strive and making life harder, and a welfare system that destroys all incentive with ill-advised means tests that punish anyone who has a go, and a greedy self-serving upper class who constantly demand a bigger and bigger share of national wealth, blaming the victims of economic deterioration will only make the problem worse.

Why can't we all work together for improvement? It isn't going to improve anything to deny those who worked and saved the benefit of their savings in retirement, and the right to pass on a little to their children and grandchildren. It's only going to make a poorer and more unfair nation. It isn't going to help anything to demand that lower paid workers live on less and forfeit their weekends and holidays for no reward. It isn't going to help anything to make the sick, infirm, or intellectually disadvantaged suffer greater hardship.

What WILL help is to recognize that monetary circulation drives economic growth, and contributing to repay the national debt is something the rich can do without suffering even a minimal reduction in lifestyle - SO THEY SHOULD! Ultimately, the rich will benefit most from fixing both society and the economy, and they should pay fairly for the benefits they reap and will continue to reap in larger proportions.

The battlers in our society WILL work harder when there is more incentive, greater reward, and better education and support. Bludging and cheating WILL reduce when incentives and rewards for effort are INCREASED. The big stick never worked. Reward always achieves more than punishment. Tightening welfare is NOT the solution. Our society is affluent enough to guarantee EVERY Australian a good standard of living, and to ensure that those who strive enjoy a generous reward for their endeavours. While we continue to blame the victims of failure, we will ensure that failure continues.
Bonny
8th Jul 2017
2:20pm
Wonderful Rainey in that what you say does only one thing and that is why should I do anything in life society takes care of me anyway?

Why should people like me fund their own life and that of others who do nothing as they think the country owes them a living? I'm over it myself and the only way to fit it us force people to get off their posteriors and actually fo something. You are right the current systems fails because it is way too generous. If you have money you should spend it before any welfare can be accessed. If you want the OAP then it dhould be repaid from your estate so the only people who benefit are the genuine battlers who have nothing.

Yes we are way to generous already and that needs to change for a better society.
musicveg
8th Jul 2017
7:37pm
Those who are getting up off their posteriors and trying to make a go of things are getting knocked back and down all the time, there are not enough jobs, we need more real jobs and more support for housing, health and education. The only thing that is too generous is the politicians wages being the second highest in the world. Opportunities are fewer and further for battlers so how can you expect them to improve their lives. Just because of a few bludger's does not mean that all on welfare are.
Frank
9th Jul 2017
8:03am
Rainey and musicveg, you both paint a very dismal outlook. Rainey I guess you would be happier if nobody had an opportunity to become rich in this country. I would disagree on your point about a stronger welfare system creating incentive. I've never heard anything so ridiculous. Our welfare system is the most generous in the world and facilitates a socially unacceptable imbalance of negativity, such as displayed above.
I would be very surprised if a poll, commissioned by the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU), did not find fuel for class warfare.

I personally don't care who is getting wealthy, as long as someone is.
Sorry, but your argument has more holes than a crumpet.
Rainey
10th Jul 2017
9:01am
You are both wrong, Bonny and Frank. Society is NOT too generous. It's not generous enough, but the generosity is misplaced. People do NOT want to do nothing. They want a chance to strive and succeed, and fair reward for doing so.

I have no problem with anyone getting rich honestly and deservingly. My problem is that those who strive but only make it to moderately comfortable - usually due to a bad start in life - are knocked down.

No, people should NOT have to use their savings before getting a pension. Nor should they have to repay pensions from their estate. Because the RICH get more in handouts than the poor, and pay none of it back. Their massive unfair tax concessions cost the nation far more than pensions do, and on top of that they profit from exploiting the less well off - paying them far less than their labour is worth and refusing to pay their fair share to use national resources.

I want EVERYONE to have a chance to become as rich as they can get, and to enjoy their wealth in old age, and to pass it on to their offspring - for whose benefit they work so hard and live frugally. I am heartily sick of this BS claiming that the rich should keep their gains, the poor (whether due to hardship or laziness or overspending) should get handouts, and those who slog for years to save a modest sum should be punished and have to hand it all back. No wonder people give up or cheat! It's a wonder we have as many workers as we do.

Give the battlers opportunity, incentive and reward. Restore an environment of a ''fair go for all''.

Yes, a stronger welfare system DOES make for a healthier society, and gives people more security and therefore incentive to have a go. People could start businesses, invent, turn to art and creative writing if only that safety net were stronger and they could feel confident of adequate support if their efforts fail. A stronger welfare system would enable people to go back to school or take classes to learn better skills. Less restrictions in the workplace and less STUPID demands for worthless bits of paper that declare some half-wit sat in a classroom for 4 years and passed a multiple choice exam would enable people with innate ability and talent and quick learning ability to achieve their potential.

The ONLY people who think like Bonny, OG and Frank are the arrogant privileged who want to keep everyone else down and justify their own privileged status. And sorry, it's YOUR argument that is flawed, Frank. And if you ever bothered to pay attention to the genuinely disadvantaged in this world and LISTEN to their story, you would be forced to sing a different tune - because your judgmental attitude IS THE PROBLEM.

Yes, there IS fuel for class warfare in this country. But guess what? Class warfare is being waged - by the privileged against the defenceless disadvantaged. And sadly the stinking greedy privileged are winning hands down. Why do you think the government strives so hard to prevent the disadvantaged accessing ways to revolt?
Old Geezer
10th Jul 2017
11:39am
People in Australia have never had it so good as they do today. Our young kids get welfare and that's all they seem to strive for now. Yes there are jobs available as on a recent trip I saw lots of backpackers filling in jobs our kids should be doing. Our welfare system is stopping people achieving in life. Why work when you can get welfare instead? One can only imagine how bad it will get if welfare is increased and strengthened.

People need to realise that they should provide for themselves instead of relying so heavily on welfare. Wold those who the OAP is nice to have but don't need it take it if they had to pay it back from their estate? In a lot of cases I doubt it especially if it has interest added like HECS debts. About time those HECS debts were paid back from estates as well to stop people going to uni just because they want something to do with their time. I know of quite a few seniors who do this knowing that they will never have to pay for it. Meanwhile our young kids get it taken out as soon as they make a decent wage. The sooner that these loop holes are fixed the better.
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
4:29am
You are contradicting yourself, OG. If kids are on welfare and that's all they strive for, then we don't have it good at all. We are in a big mess. If people don't want to work, then the system is wrong.

People don't provide for themselves because the system PUNISHES them for doing so. You work hard and save and you are told ''you have to live on your savings'' while your neighbour, who blew all they had on world cruises is told ''here, we'll give you handouts and discounts on everything''. Then idiots wonder why people don't want to work hard!

Sure, cripple people with HECS debts and pensions repaid out of estates, and there will be millions more saying 'what the f....? Why should I bother?'' If you keep giving it all to the rich, the battlers will see no reason to work. And if you take away the welfare, the poor will finally rise up.

You really are dumb not to see thee consequences of bad policy, OG. We need REWARD FOR EFFORT. We need INCENTIVE. We need sufficient equity to ensure ALL people enjoy reasonable opportunity to prosper.

The nation is not poor. The money is wrongly concentrated in the hands of the stinking rich who won't pay taxes and who are never content.

Yes, there are many loopholes that should be fixed, but the fundamental objective has to be to create greater equity and opportunity and to ensure those who work are rewarded and incentives are maintained, and EVERYONE pays their fair share toward maintaining a healthy society - IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BENEFITS THEY ENJOY, AND THUS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR CAPACITY TO PAY.
Triss
11th Jul 2017
3:54pm
Bonny, not a bad idea that people should pay back out of their estate. As we live in a democracy that means everyone. Did you go to school? Did you pay for all those years? Did you have babies? Did you pay for all the care pre babies? See what I mean.
But death duties/inheritance tax are still a good idea. Bring death duties back for estates of over $1.5 million dollars, no loopholes for the rich everyone pays. We'll soon be out of debt. Brilliant solution, Bonny.
Rainey
12th Jul 2017
12:41pm
I agree, Triss. Bonny, let's also look at how many years less advantaged people worked and paid taxes while the more privileged enjoyed advanced education. By your theory, the rich should enjoy a largely taxpayer-funded education and then a high income and massive tax concessions and give NOTHING back, while the poor should battle for 50 years on low incomes and repay the miserable pittance they are granted for a few years when they are finally too old to work. What a disgustingly selfish attitude!
Rainey
12th Jul 2017
1:08pm
BTW. Bonny, you obviously can't read and comprehend at all well. I have never suggested anyone should fund themselves and others as well. What I propose is a system that ALLOWS AND SUPPORTS most people to become self-supporting. The current system is designed to supress. It is meant to keep folk down. By handing out a pittance, and punishing anyone who strives to escape the welfare trap, it ensures that we better-off folk DO have to support ourselves and others as well, on a continuing basis. And it does so to preserve a master/slave relationship that they rich choose to maintain.

If you don't want to have to fund others as well as yourself, then endorse a proposal to empower the less advantaged so that a maximum number of them become at least substantially self-supporting. Stop endorsing the big stick approach that cripples people and keeps them dependant.

What I suggested was improved education and support and implementation of a welfare system that incentivizes and rewards, instead of one that punishes and discourages.

If you stopped your nasty assumptions that the less advantaged don't want to work and recognized that the majority are just desperate for a reasonable opportunity and a little help to take advantage of it, you might understand that what I propose will greatly reduce the need for folk like you to fund the lifestyles of others.

Only an arrogant, nasty, self-serving ignoramus assumes that people choose to live on welfare because they are lazy. They choose to live on welfare because they are desperate and without hope. They see no viable alternative. And if they succeed in finding a little casual work or a temporary position, they suffer such hideous pain that they reject the next opportunity. They are seeing people who worked hard and lived frugally deprived in old age, while those who cruised the world and partied are supported by the taxpayer. They see folk who pay for health insurance hit with high ''gap'' costs for medical care while those without insurance pay nothing and get superior care. In old age, those who have nothing are cared for free and those who worked and saved are deprived of their assets and charged exorbitant fees.

Goodness, even the Family Provisions Act punishes a named beneficiary for having worked and saved and hands out to the greedy, jealous sibling who bludged and cheated all their life!

If we stopped blaming the victims of this stupid system and trying to devise penalties and ways to ''force them off their posterior'' and instead looked at the flawed system that has driven these people into helplessness and hopelessness, we might find ways to fix the problem. But while people like you, Bonny, continue to gloat about your status and support a cruel system of suppression and compulsion, nothing will get better.

The answer lies in education, support, incentives and reward. The welfare system needs to be more generous - not less - but differently focused so that a majority of current dependants are assisted to move out of the welfare system and into independence and self-respect.

And that's spoken by someone who has been there and done that, and worked extensively with others who have been there - some of whom are still struggling on welfare and probably always will, despite a burning desire to work and be able to hold their heads up in their community. I was bashed down by the system over and over again. I finally had to cheat to beat the cruelty. I paid my dues, and I'm not proud of being dishonest. But had I not been, I would still be poor and dependant and who knows where my kids would be today? All I wanted was to be ALLOWED to work my way out of poverty, but the cruel system didn't permit that - unless I lied about my activities and earnings.

I don't like funding others either, Bonny - though I'm happy to contribute to supporting the genuinely disabled, sick, and poor aged. The thing is, though, that people like you are to blame for the fact that taxpayers have to prop up no-hopers. What we have to do to fix things is give them hope.
musicveg
12th Jul 2017
1:18pm
I agree with you Rainey. If you are a refugee you can get up to $20,000 loan with mentoring and support to start your own business, apparently the NEIS scheme is now defunct, don't know whether there is any other program that supports Australians to start their own business if you are on a low income.
*Loloften*
10th Jul 2017
7:06am
The senior group in Aus is 1 in 6 of the population, that's huge. It's time all Pollies, no matter which "Party" (such a well chosen description, party on Pollies) as all appear to have their snouts in the trough. Instead of the now very privileged @ the expense of the far less privileged, Pollies should give more $$$s to the poor/seniors as they will then be able to spend more. They may not be capable of buying Investment properties but may spend on healthier food (less medicare/hospital costs) & just be healthier by not stressing abt how they can pay their next Council Rates/Elec, Gas & Water bills/home & car insurances & most importantly for the Govn'mt, actually be able to afford Private Hospital/Health Insurance so not such a burden on our increasingly overloaded Public Hospitals. It's simple....can't understand how these so-called intelligent Pollies can't see it.
Old Geezer
10th Jul 2017
11:29am
Seniors actually spend very little on consumables because they have everything they need. They only buy when something can't be fixed. They also only buy food in season and stock up when it is on special.

Most feel that they are entitled to free hospital treatment so will wait rather than pay for expensive hospital insurance. I know one lady who needed a knee replacement and bought a new car and gopher instead so she could wait the five years for free surgery. She then managed to increase her weigh to double what it was and was then deemed too fat for surgery. Some people make such dumb choices to prove a point.

I see any extra as going on a better cabin in a cruise ship or more to spend on holidays overseas. That is of little help to our economy.

Yes they will have more to spend but I very much doubt our economy will benefit from it.
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
4:20am
Only the rich seniors already have all they need, OG. If you had any idea at all about reality you would recognize that the vast majority of seniors NEED MORE TO SPEND, and those who don't want to finally enjoy some of the luxuries they deprived themselves of trying to save for old age (apparently unwisely, so that a stinking government could take away all the benefit they worked so hard hoping to enjoy!)

No, a better cabin on a cruise ship won't help our economy. What WILL help is being ALLOWED to preserve your savings for future needs instead of being punished for saving and incentivized to spend it all on a costly cruise because having it merely reduces your income,

The economy would benefit enormously from increased aged pensions and from a sensible assets test (or total abolition) that allowed people to benefit from their endeavours. In particular, abolishing the harsh penalties for saving for old age would encourage the younger generation to strive and that would ensure greater national prosperity in the future.
AutumnOz
11th Jul 2017
9:06am
OG, had your lady friend paid for the replacement knee prosthesis she could have had the surgery done under Medicare within 90 days.
You always make very extravagant statements without ever checking facts or perhaps knowing the facts but bending them for your own convenience of use.
And why do you always assume pensioners and/or welfare recipients are off on a cruise or holiday overseas? In the real world most cannot afford to travel further than the local grocery shop.
AutumnOz
11th Jul 2017
9:09am
Rainey, don't try talking with OG it won't make any difference as he/she is incapable of understand life in normal society
BTW your posts make a lot of sense which is probably why OG and Bonny argue with you :-)
AutumnOz
11th Jul 2017
9:18am
Loloften, no-one can understand why the majority of pollies can't see the obvious, those who can are usually pushed out of the way of those who can't. That doesn't help our country at all.
Triss
12th Jul 2017
1:47pm
For heavens sake, OG, that's going a bit OTT even for you. Generalisations don't help. All seniors obviously don't have everything they want as many seniors, who would prefer to own their own house, are in rental properties. Many seniors haven't sufficient disposable income to be able to buy medical insurance or good quality food needed for good health. The woman needing knee surgery could illustrate that as poor quality food can cause weight gain. Not dumb just lacking the necessary finance.
And, as for luxury cruises, maybe you watch too many TV ads.
SheppartonMIss
10th Jul 2017
12:34pm
This government, like many others across the world has lost sight of what the voters want and expect to be delivered by the very people voters PAY to do this - members of parliament.
Not only are there no jobs for the young, the wealthy continue to get wealthier but the way in which older people are treated in Australia is absolutely appalling.

Voters OS have already demonstrated they will not continue to accept decisions that impact unfairly on the general population (not the super rich) and Aus voters will do likewise come the next election. While Senator Hanson may not appeal to everyone, her objectives in sticking up for the little person will see her popularity grow. Similarly with Nick Xehphon, Darren Hinch and other pollies who still have a sense of right and wrong. Unfortunately these people can't really change things - they have no policies - but the CAN stop the government in power from continuing to introduce policies that hurt people in their daily lives.

We really need an 'old people's' party - representative in parliament because the ones that are there couldn't give a rats. Don't get me started on this!
Anyone who wants to start such a party has my vote, plus anything I can provide to help the cause in terms of time and effort - no money, the governments seen to that!
SheppartonMiss
Old Geezer
10th Jul 2017
1:48pm
Goodness me what do people want as we live in the best time now of all of history? OK I get it no matter what people get it will never be enough. What a greedy people we have become! No wonder society is such a mess.

Older people today in Australia are treated much better than at any other time in history but no that's not enough for them at all.

Remember money will not buy happiness and in fact the richer you get the unhappier most people become. NO wonder they say money is the root of all evil!
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
4:15am
What we want, OG, is continuing improvement in social conditions and security for the future. Yes, it's true people are greedy. A woman earning $2000 a minute is whinging about paying tax. A man who is worth billions is threatening to take his business to another country if he is asked to pay tax, and claiming the fact that his employees pay tax should exempt him. Politicians are telling retirees they have too much money, then giving themselves an extra $7000 a year plus a tax cut. The rich are screaming for MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE and dodging tax at every turn, and then demanding pensioners live on less. You are shouting that raising taxes would make the unconscionable greedy rich pay more to accountants to ensure they escape their obligations, and claiming that's a reason to impose more hurt on the less well off and indulge the greed of the rich.

What a sick society! Only a very sick human being could possibly speak as you do - excusing this kind of selfishness and insisting the victims of economic demise are the problem.
Triss
12th Jul 2017
1:26pm
No, OG, the saying is "love of money is the root of all evil".
Rainey
11th Jul 2017
8:52am
Anyone who agrees with OG that we should cut welfare and keep attacking the middle and upper working class, or that we should keep cutting taxes for the rich, should carefully consider the consequences of these policies for the United States. They have been doing exactly that for a couple of decades. They have very poor welfare, unaffordable health care, unaffordable education, and the middle and upper working classes have been suffering declining incomes - including loss of penalty rates. The result?

US has just been reclassified a ''second world'' economy and it's been confirmed that the working class is now worse off than the slaves were before the Civil War. It officially costs less to hire a minimum wage employee (relative to profits) than it did to own a slave before slavery ended.

That's what is coming in Australia if we allow inequality and indulgence of the greedy rich to continue. We must stand up to the government NOW and demand a reversal of their cruel and destructive policies and moves to greater fairness and equity across all of society.
AutumnOz
11th Jul 2017
9:12am
Most of us have known that for some time Rainey and it is unfortunate that our political leaders cannot see further than their own greed and start to rectify the situation.
Australia is heading straight for Third World status bypassing second world.
musicveg
11th Jul 2017
2:43pm
I support your comments Rainey, thank you for your words, I feel the same way but cannot always articulate them. I am always shocked to watch documentary's about the USA and see what is really going on. So many homeless people living on the streets with no hope in the world. Families with a low income worker having to live in hotel units because they cannot afford rent. Many only able to get low casual employment. I just got a load of wood delivered and the driver told me his boss wanted to make him a casual worker just to save a few bucks, he had to fight for permanent full time at the risk of losing his job. We need more permanent real jobs not insecure casual jobs. The government is introducing incentives to business to employ young workers for 12 weeks, what is the point, will not help them feel worthy once the 12 weeks ends. There will still be no job at the end.
ArtStone
11th Jul 2017
2:39pm
Look for any of you out there that think the unemployed are lazy and don't want to work or that welfare is overgenerous I like to point out two things. Firstly try it out for yourself you arrogant people in work, resign and try living off the lousy hand out they give! Unless you have experienced it and when I say that I don't mean for a couple of days or weeks or even months try it for several months or years and then YOU WILL know that it is bloody tough out there! (Oh and I don't include handouts from family and friends to help you through). Secondly didn't you read my first comment the MEDIA LIE, POLITICIANS LIE so anything derogatory they say about lazy social welfare recipients you can toss into the garbage! I know what it is to be long term unemployed and hear are the FACTS: 99% of those out of work want to work (so stop tarnishing the vast majority); once you are over 40 (especially if a male) Employers don't want to know you for various reasons and for every job advertised in most cases there are well over 100 applicants for it. I was sitting next to this guy and overheard him saying he was "only"applying for Labourer jobs and was told at any one time there would be at least 150 applicants for it. That's why there's an unemployment rate because there are more people out of work than there are jobs for them. Oh and by the way there is NO acceptable unemployment rate for a so called healthy economy! One single person out of work (who wants it) is unacceptable and if you have difficulty relating to that concept, think of it this way, that one person is YOU!!
musicveg
11th Jul 2017
2:51pm
Exactly, many pay more than half of their welfare on rent, many 2/3rds on rent, mind you that rent money is going straight to someone who owns more than one property. I don't understand how people can complain about those on welfare when all that money is going back into the system, and mostly to supermarkets,electricity and landlords, they cannot afford anything else. More welfare money would mean more going into the system and the rich can benefit. Then maybe more jobs will become available when they can then afford more workers to expand.
I would like to challenge those who put down welfare recipients try and live off the money they get with having to pay rent as well.
ex PS
12th Jul 2017
2:46pm
A simple test would be to cut all welfare and see how many companies go under, people with no money can't spend any money, result retailers go broke.
Also watch as people desperate to ensure themselves and their families survive start undercutting the job market.
These government drones who are constantly spewing their mantra of blaming the disadvantaged for all of Australia's problems need to take a step back and start thinking for themselves.
musicveg
12th Jul 2017
4:09pm
Also if you cut off welfare crime will skyrocket, people are already stealing from supermarkets to subsidize their welfare benefits. Those with more money will get attacked more too. Let's not encourage a bigger gap with the haves and have not's, rather we need to close the gap so everyone can live a better life. Let's create more Australian jobs rather than for those overseas jobs and then they want to come here and buy Australian property and live here as they are already doing and pushing the prices up so everyday Australians cannot afford to buy in their own country. With most of those multinational companies avoiding tax by shifting their money into tax havens the money is not staying in Australia.
ArtStone
18th Jul 2017
3:53pm
I just heard something very interesting the other day. Charities for many years now have been wondering why $billions thrown at third world countries is not reducing poverty and improving lives. The simple answer is because the money is going to the wrong "end of town"! Money given to Governments of these countries is wasted on bureaucracy, corruption and massively expensive infrastructure which most of the poor have no access to or don't need anyway. The solution now is to give the money instead directly to the poor and letting them decide on how and where to spend it. The findings so far are very positive because the poor spend money in the local economy, stimulating it, expanding small businesses which in turn employ more people, who then have money to spend and round and round it goes growing the system and improving everyone's lives. This solution has been suspected by many for a long time to be the way to go but big business and colluding corrupt Politicians and the Media have manipulated matters to their favour which of course disadvantages the poor. Turnbull and his ilk believe giving $billions to the "big end of town" is the solution to stimulating Australia's economy and reducing unemployment. He is either deluding himself or (and I prefer to believe this) as a very intelligent man he knows darn well the only ones to benefit will be those who already have money. This "trickle down" economics that will benefit the poor is a falsehood perpetrated by the lying Media and Politicians. It has been tried so many times in so many countries (typically the West) and has never worked in the medium to long term which is what is needed. Short term fixes (band-aid measures) should be consigned to the rubbish heap along with anyone proposing them! Write to your local Independent and insist they lobby Canberra to stop giving to the rich and start giving to the poor!!!
musicveg
18th Jul 2017
5:08pm
Yes I saw that on TV too, was really great to see people get out of poverty with very little money. Media is full of lies. Interesting as well is watching the Putin Interviews recently on TV that shows Putin in a completely different light to the one media portrays. People are now not living in poverty as in the communist area, and living in multicultural society with many religions, they have 50% Muslim but have never had any problems.
Don't forget there are organization already fighting the imbalance of our economy, check out Market Forces and GetUP.


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