Cashless welfare card to roll out to a third region

The PM has declared the Government’s cashless welfare card trial a “success”.

Cashless welfare card to roll out to a third region

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has declared the Federal Government’s cashless welfare card trials a “success” and “an exercise in compassion and in love”.

A third trial is already planned for another region in Western Australia.  

A reduction in alcohol consumption, illegal drug use and gambling are just some of the reasons behind the Federal Government advocating the cashless welfare card.

"Almost half of all drinkers are drinking less, almost half of all gamblers are gambling less and the same with the drug users," said Human Services Minister Alan Tudge.

A 300-page report released last Friday revealed that the card had considerable positive effects on both the Ceduna and Kununurra communities. As a result, a third trial site has already been chosen in Western Australia's Goldfields region.

However, the report showed that one third of participants felt that their lives had worsened with the welfare card system and only 17 per cent of participants felt their children’s lives had improved.

WA Council of Social Services Chief Louise Giolitto said the trials of the cards had shown mixed results and the cards carried negative connotations.

"What you are finding is that people who have addictions, alcohol addictions, they'll sell the cards that maybe are worth $200 for $100 and they are leaving themselves with a lot less cash," said Ms Giolitto.

The Federal Government said that trials of the welfare card would be region by region instead of an entire country roll-out.

What do you think of the welfare card? Should it be rolled out faster nationwide or is the Federal Government taking the right course of action in slowly rolling out the welfare card?

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    COMMENTS

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    Charlie
    5th Sep 2017
    11:05am
    Obviously for people who have trouble managing their money but should be a choice for anyone else like age pensioners who are on welfare permanently. Otherwise it becomes an invasion of privacy
    Retired Knowall
    5th Sep 2017
    12:05pm
    How is it an Invasion of Privacy?
    jackie
    5th Sep 2017
    12:18pm
    This is just another step closer to getting rid of social security by this government. The Dole has not gone up since 1996 because it is meant to be used to look for work. The Cashless Welfare Card is not a success because crime has risen because of it. Australia needs a Cashless Welfare Card for our politicians.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    12:32pm
    Agree Jackie.
    Rosret
    5th Sep 2017
    1:29pm
    Jackie has the crime rate increased? I did wonder if it would be a resulting effect.
    However, I am not opposed to the welfare bill managed payout. The women and children of these areas are glad of the restrictions. They want food, clothes and a place to live.
    Without alcohol and drugs ruling their lives they may have a future.
    Charlie
    5th Sep 2017
    3:51pm
    Its an invasion of privacy Mr Knowall because there will be a record of everything you spend your money on. The same as any credit card except the government will have the record.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:56pm
    Charlie they already know what you spend your money on so what will change? My bank gives me a breakdown every month on what I spend money on. If you have a rewards card haven't you noticed that they emails are very selective in what they want you to buy?
    GeorgeM
    5th Sep 2017
    11:42pm
    This program and this article are about cashless welfare cards for job-seekers who should be looking for jobs but may not be due to drug or alcohol dependency. Totally irrelevant for Age Pensioners.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    7:55am
    Plenty of folk have suggested it should be extended to ALL welfare recipients, George, and given the huge profit it yields to LNP politicians and their mates and the massive donations to the LNP that result from its extended use, you can be sure the government will try damned hard to make the card universal for all pensioners.
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    9:40am
    Just one more reason why the OAP, should never be referred to as welfare.
    If it applies to one true welfare recipient, it should apply to all, my main original concern was that it just wouldn't work, it appears I was wrong so now I say yes utilize it, but apply it to all people who receive welfare.
    That does not apply to Pensioners as they are receiving welfare, they are getting nothing that they have not earned.
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    11:09am
    PS OAPs have not earned their welfare at all as it has nothing to do with how much you earned or how much tax you paid. It is nothing more than welfare given to those who have failed to provide themselves with a means of support.
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:41am
    OG, if you studied history, you would know you are completely WRONG WRONG WRONG. The OAP was intended to be paid to all and was paid for by a special tax levy. If not stolen, the accumulated funds contributed SPECIFICALLY TO FUND THE OAP AND FOR NOTHING ELSE, would enable payment of $500 weekly to EVERY RETIREE in Australia today. The OAP was specifically declared a RIGHT and NEVER TO BE REGARDED AS WELFARE. Sadly, greedy corrupt politicians just couldn't resist the temptation to steal.
    Old Geezer
    8th Sep 2017
    4:10pm
    Rainey that was just that history and have nothing to do with what Is happening now. If you really want a history lesson each person over retirement age would have got mere pennies fro that old tax levy as there are simply too many of them living too long now. OAP is not a right but welfare and nothing more.
    Anonymous
    9th Sep 2017
    1:19am
    Wrong again, OG. If the fund hadn't been abused by corrupt politicians, there would be enough to pay EVERY RETIREE TODAY $500 a week. OAP is NOT welfare. It was declared an ENTITLEMENT and to remain an universal entitlement forever, as this was acknowledged to be the only DECENT way for a society to function. What is happening now is WRONG on every level. It reflects disgusting contempt for the contribution our aged made to society, and gross indecency by greedy, selfish people who have no morals or integrity.
    Chummy
    5th Sep 2017
    11:30am
    You can't control people's lives.There are many people out there that have social issues(drugs alcohol smoking ect).Education is possibly one answer but there are still people out there that do not have the fortitude to keep their bad habits under control.
    I honestly don't know the answer and I certainly don't propose that I do.
    I think if this card becomes spread across all pension classes then I think it's akin to communism.
    Again I don't have an answer and I'm happy to read the opinion of others.
    What do other readers think?
    Rosret
    5th Sep 2017
    1:38pm
    It is not communism.
    No one wants to take away people's freedom. However, we don't want women beaten and children wandering the streets at night. - and that is happening!
    Families want to get their lives back and they want to feel safe. It isn't their money - its the taxpayers and it is needed to be used wisely, not to exacerbate a social welfare nightmare.
    Would you give your kids $300 if you knew they were just going to blow it on drugs and alcohol? - every week. I suggest you wouldn't. You would pay for their education, their clothes and give them food and a place to sleep. That is all the government is doing on a larger scale.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:57pm
    Freedom comes with responsibility but unfortunately those on welfare have no responsibility.
    GeorgeM
    5th Sep 2017
    11:44pm
    Chummy, as noted above in my earlier post this program is "Totally irrelevant for Age Pensioners.", so don't worry about it.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    8:01am
    Again, George, that's a naïve statement. Don't be too sure. The profit motive is powerful.

    Rosret, you are sadly misinformed if you think the card will stop women being beaten and children wandering the streets at night. All the card is doing is ripping money out of the welfare system to line LNP coffers instead. Of course we wouldn't give kids $300 to blow on alcohol or drugs, but you can't stop an addict except by education and support. Punishment and restrictions makes them worse - every time! No money to buy a ''fix''? They will beat the wife and kids out of frustration, or sell the card and leave the family starving. Only a gullible fool believes you can stop them by taking cash away.

    OG, your comment is vile and disgusting! MOST people on welfare are responsible. It's a minority that are not. People fall on hard times for all kinds of reasons. There are far more irresponsible people NOT on welfare - and many of them are ripping off the nation far worse than any welfare recipient ever could, with obscene salaries for doing stuff-all and stealing benefits or engaging in corruption - like the LNP and the company behind the cashless welfare card.
    GeorgeM
    6th Sep 2017
    10:26pm
    Rainey, no my statement is not naive, just a statement of fact. I know there are plenty of right-wing extremists, including trolls on this site, trying to confuse the purpose of this card and also trying to attack pensioners by arbitrarily expanding on the coverage of this card whereas the Govt explicitly excluded pensioners. Of course, the Labor-types would also use scare campaigns to confuse people to oppose the Liberal Govt. Hence my attempt was simply to keep the record straight for those who may not be across the detail, and avoid unnecessary angst for some from all the misinformation being dished out.
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:43am
    George, given the profits the LNP and Indue owners are making from the card, I am sure the LNP WILL extend It as far as they can. And if you believe their ''explicit exclusion of pensioners'' you have a very short memory. Remember ''no changes to pensions''? How long did that last?
    mIKER
    5th Sep 2017
    11:47am
    Charities, such as St Vincent de Paul, Victoria have supplied cashless cards to needy persons for many years. The cards are exchanged in the major supermarkets for food, with alcohol and smokes specifically excluded from purchase. There are occasions where the cards are sold for cash, usually below there face value, however, the practice is not common and most recipients enjoy the full benefits of the cards which have proven to be a real help to those in need.
    The cash cards are paid for by donations from perhaps more affluent people however, the donors have some rights to expect that their gifts are used appropriately and any limitations on usage are fair and reasonable.
    To my mind the same principles apply to the Government cards. Tax payers fund welfare in the belief that recipients use it to support their well-being, not fund a lifestyle of drinking, gambling etc. Nothing wrong with these activities if done in moderation, but why should the taxpayer pay for the entertainment of others?
    I would make the use of cash cards universal, for all welfare recipients, who will get some cash anyway, so that tax payers are not investing in alcoholism, substance abuse or rampant gambling at the expense of feeding and clothing recipients and their children.
    Retired Knowall
    5th Sep 2017
    12:07pm
    Well said mIKER.
    David
    5th Sep 2017
    12:48pm
    I agree with you miKER that the cash card should be applied to all welfare recipients.
    I don't like the idea that my taxes from my hard-earned income is being used to fund a lifestyle of smoking, drinking, gambling and drug use.
    Welfare benefits are primarily there to fund the 3 most basic needs: food, clothing and shelter.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:42pm
    The cashless card will put less demand on those charities so they can help people a lot more.
    Rae
    6th Sep 2017
    7:54am
    I agree OG but I do have concerns about the costs involved in managing the card and the profits going to the LNP and a few mates. I'm paying taxes for all this and wonder if the $4000 management cost of each card is good value.

    As an investor I'd buy shares in it if I could though as it seems like a recipe to print government money to me. Plus the kickbacks from businesses included in the approved stores must be nice to have.

    A not for profit management of the cards would have allowed far less corruption.
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    11:04am
    Rae as an investment I would not touch it simply because the cost per person will be very little when all those on welfare including OAPs have been given the card.

    Funny thing is that $4000 management fee keeps changing too.
    David
    6th Sep 2017
    12:15pm
    Good point Old Geezer about the cashless welfare card putting less demand on charities.
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:47am
    Oh David, surely you don't believe that rubbish? What do you think needy people do when the family alcoholic or gambler sells the card for peanuts, or the money runs out fast because they can't use the card at cheaper local venues but have to travel or pay higher prices to shop where it's accepted. There have been vast numbers of complaints of people having to drive long distances to find stores that will accept it, and having to pay premium price for goods because discount stores won't accept it. Charity stores are even rejecting it - barring people from buying cheap second-hand clothes and furniture.
    Old Geezer
    7th Sep 2017
    3:25pm
    Rainey even charities will accept the card as they will lose too much by not accepting it. Only places that wont accept it are grog shops if more than a certain amount is spent on grog.

    How can you sell you card? Centrelink will soon wise up if you "lose" too many cards. More likely you will have to buy stuff and resell it for cash. Not much money in that.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    12:32am
    Obviously you don't live in the real world, OG. If you did, you would know that addicts ALWAYS find a way around stupid misguided restrictions. Did you not study the Prohibition? You really are dumb to think bashing people when they are down does any good. There are ways to help addicts as well as other irresponsible folk, but it is NOT by imposing more hardship.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    11:49am
    There is no compassion or love here. It's treating all welfare recipients as drug users and alcoholics which just isn't true. It's a callus attempt by the government to shame and marginalise welfare recipients. Another liberal policy the people of Australia should be ashamed of.
    Bid
    5th Sep 2017
    11:54am
    Totally agree Tib. Wonder who did the survey to say it's working, don't believe these results. Too soon to know.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    12:11pm
    Bid whatever data is collected will be used to support the policy and anyone who complains will be considered an angry drug user. The liberals won't be happy until we have a system like the US that only supports the wealthy.
    KSS
    5th Sep 2017
    1:15pm
    Bid, Orima Research did the evaluation (www.orima.com) and you can read the entire report here:

    https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/08_2017/cashless_debit_card_trial_evaluation_-_final_evaluation_report.pdf
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    2:38pm
    Thanks KSS I had a quick look but I didn't find anything particularly incourageing in the report. I m also not sure any advantages achieved in aboriginal communities can be applied to the rest of the nation.
    KSS
    7th Sep 2017
    7:32am
    Why Tib? Are Aboriginal people somehow different to the rest of the population? If you think so, in what way?
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    5:28am
    Inhabitants of certain Aboriginal communities ARE different to the rest of the population, KSS. Aboriginals traditionally don't place any value on money or material possessions and don't understand the capitalist model. They tend to give money and things away freely and many think it's okay to just take what you want. This is not a fault. It's just that in the traditional native society, money and things have no meaning or value, and many Aboriginals have not acquired an understanding of the way the white man values money and possessions. Also, Aboriginals tend to have a greater propensity to have problems with alcohol. Again, that's not a criticism or discriminatory comment. It's just a fact of their makeup and history.
    Personally, I think their appreciation of earth and nature and their tradition of sharing and caring makes them superior to the white man. But it also presents a challenge when governments want to force them to adapt to the white man's way of life and live according to our rules.
    Florgan
    5th Sep 2017
    12:09pm
    I agree with you mIKER except for the age pensioners.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    12:31pm
    Florian the government won't be happy until all welfare recipients are buying their groceries with what amounts to a shame card. What makes you think disability and age pensions will be exempt.

    Many people are happy if this happens to someone else but not them. When you line up for your shame card don't forget your drug test.
    Rosret
    5th Sep 2017
    1:44pm
    The age pension is different to social welfare as a pensioner has supposedly contributed in the form of taxes throughout their life to a cache the government has set aside and invested wisely. (hahaha)
    Nevertheless, an option for some elderly would be very helpful as they are easily conned by phone call sprucking charities, and irrational spending when dementia starts to set in.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    3:08pm
    Rosret I doubt many pensioners would agree with you when they find they can never buy a bottle of wine ever again.

    By the way you can see from many people writing for the right on this site they see the old age pension as welfare not an entitlement which is the view of the present government so good luck with that.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    5:49pm
    Looks like the current government has got something right then.
    Rosret
    5th Sep 2017
    9:21pm
    Tib - pensioners can't afford a bottle of wine.
    This move isn't intended for pensioners though - its a about abuse of social welfare money.
    GeorgeM
    5th Sep 2017
    11:46pm
    Florgan, as noted above in my earlier post this program is "Totally irrelevant for Age Pensioners.", so don't worry about it, and ignore the right-wing trolls on this forum some of whom may be paid by Liberal party to propagate their views.
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    9:44am
    It will not apply to pensioners as they are not welfare recipients. If this government tries to turn Pensioners into welfare recipients they should be voted out by them at the next election. What will they come up with next, make Self Funded Retirees welfare recipients so that they can control our money?
    They are already attempting to do so by trying to restrict the way we can draw and use our Super Entitlements.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    10:04am
    ''No changes to pensions'', ex PS. Don't ever trust this mob of lying, cheating, corrupt power-mongers. At $4000 per person per annum, they'll extend the scheme as far as they possibly can.
    Jim
    5th Sep 2017
    12:50pm
    For many years now money has been thrown at the aboriginal problem, very few of the solutions have had long term success, I suspect this is another solution that won't work long term. Without making excuses for people that are on long term benifits, there must be a better way, what that is I don't know, but education and some meaning in life has to be the starting point, there needs to be greater input from responsible indigenous leaders, not from some of the bleeding heart greenies and some of the left and right wing agitators.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    9:59am
    You are so right, Dim. Aboriginals have a different view of the world and material things. No amount of white man interference trying to police their lifestyle will ever work. It's cruel and inhuman. And this corrupt government is using this cruelty to make immoral profit. It's sick!

    The solution has to come from the Aboriginal leaders, but sadly many of them also milk the system for their own benefit, and activists drive demands for more and more huge handouts that only exacerbate problems.

    The cruellest thing the white man has ever done is offer monetary handouts to Aboriginals. It keeps them down. But a welfare card is worse. It's still a monetary handout, but in a form that deprives the recipient of their self-respect and their freedom to strive to manage their life better and benefit from doing so.

    But the LNP supporters will continue to applaud this disgusting rort that is milking the economy to line the pockets of LNP politicians and their mates and to keep donations to the LNP flowing.
    Not a Bludger
    5th Sep 2017
    12:57pm
    Well done the government.


    And as for all you grizzlers and naysayers, if I needed welfare assistance what matter if it is free cash in hand or a cashless credit card - it is the access to help that matters.

    But then, I am not a druggie, alcoholic or bleeding heart demanding free cash (my & your taxes being wasted) for nothing and entirely without responsibility.

    And to read that these people are on selling their cashless card for some cash just illustrates that that this system is no where near secure enough - tighten it up government.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    8:42am
    So you are content for the LNP to rip more than $3.2 billion out of the welfare, education and health budgets to give to Indue, run by their mates, in return for donations to the LNP? You are happy for $4000 per annum per recipient to be paid to Indue instead of going to reduce government debt or improve services? You approve of corruption, Not a Bludger?
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    11:10am
    What a lot of rubbish Rainey!
    Anonymous
    9th Sep 2017
    8:11am
    You are rubbish, OG. Can't make a sensible comment. Just sweeping generalizations, contradictions, and nastiness. Unlike you, I quoted FACTS.
    KSS
    5th Sep 2017
    1:04pm
    Seems like the 'do-gooders' here want to keep people in alcoholic stupors, feeding poker machines then going home to beat up the wife and kids.

    Unless you are a nosy-parker, how do you know that the card the person in front of you at the checkout is using is a 'welfare card' and not a debit or credit card just like you? There is NO shame in using these cards at all except from people like those who keep telling them they should be ashamed!

    Yes there will be people who abuse the system and sell their cards for drink or drugs. They were using their welfare for those things before the card. But you simply can't ignore that by all measures the effect of these welfare cards on individuals, families and the trial communities has been has been positive.

    The full report is here for those who would like to see it for themselves:
    https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/08_2017/cashless_debit_card_trial_evaluation_-_final_evaluation_report.pdf

    Let's not forget the most basic point here. NO ONE has had a reduction of benefits. They get the same amount of money they would have got before the introduction of the cards. And they can still have up to 50% in cash (subject to the approval of the community advisory board).
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    3:43pm
    I'm sure many good people who are unfortunate enough to be on welfare would object to you describing them as being in a drunken stupor feeding poker machines.
    Your unpleasant personality and prejudice is showing. I remember when Australia was a much nicer place and people had more compassion for those doing it tough. Now we have this.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    4:08pm
    Tib's definition of nicer place is where bludgers can rob the taxpayer blind

    Tell us what exactly you see wrong with the card scheme Tib's
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    5:21pm
    Raphael read my other posts.
    KSS
    6th Sep 2017
    7:10am
    Tib you are completely wrong about me. The evidence from the trial communities show a decrease in alcohol consumption, arrests for drunken behaviour (the dry out tanks), a serious drop in poker machine receipts and drops in domestic violence all up around the 50% mark. And School attendance was up and hospital visits as a result of violence down! The results even exceeded those expected by that devised the card system. The 7% who said their children were worse off related almost in total to people saying they couldn't give the kids money!

    And you want to keep things as they were BEFORE the welfare card!
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    7:38am
    The INDUE cashless welfare card is designed in such a way that if you happen to be hospitalised for a while and don't spend your welfare $, the interest gain on your money is legally owned by INDUE.....just another way the Libs and private banking can literally use the poorest people in the country to make a bit for themselves on the side.

    So NO, you ''holier than though'' who want to punish people who fall on hard times - the claim that people are no worse off is WRONG. Savers lose interest on their savings and put money in the pockets of greedy LNP politicians - who donate some of that profit to the LNP to keep them in power and extend the reach of this card so their buddies make MORE PROFIT.
    Rae
    6th Sep 2017
    8:06am
    Yes Rainey INDUE is my objection point as well. This was a great idea but should have been run not for profit by a government agency in hand with a community committee. I hope some of the huge profits will find their way into charities and community services but seriously doubt it.
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    9:49am
    Give a person a fish and take on the responsibility for feeding them for the rest of their lives, or teach them how to fish. Which is better, how will people learn how to manage money if it is taken out of there control? Not a bleeding heart response but a practical one.
    This is not about helping people it is about trying to shame the few that abuse the system into falling into line. It will not work as these people have no shame.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    3:14pm
    Rainey- if you are hospitalised and dont spend the cash, then the government has housed and fed you for that period. Be thankful for the extra cash you have in your account. Treat yourself with the savings.

    As for regular "saver" on OAP - what are you complaining about? That the pension is too generous ?

    Give it back to the taxpayer then
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    3:16pm
    ex PS - how will people learn to manage money - what a laugh
    If they havent learnt by the time they retire, then its too late. Better have it managed for them

    Its not about shame - its about helping those people , their families and the taxpayer
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    8:20pm
    You totally missed the point Raphael, we are talking about welfare recipients, not Pensioners. Are you saying that this government is going to take away the right for Pensioners to manage their own money. If so it is just another reason for them to vote this incompetent mob out.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    5:55am
    Raphael, people are on pensions and welfare because of disadvantage, illness, disability, accident, trauma, natural disaster, and a shortage of jobs. Only a very small minority are on pensions or welfare because they are irresponsible. It is cruel and vile and disgusting to suggest that all who receive pensions and welfare are incapable of managing money. The vast majority manage it very well indeed - otherwise they couldn't survive on the pittance they receive. They DO NOT need anyone to manage it for them. They need respect and fair support. As for retirees, many never had the opportunity to acquire healthy retirement savings. Many struggled on low wages, or with health issues or disabled children, or spent heavily educating kids. Only the worst SCUM in the world speak as you do of the decent, hard-working folk who battle through life on low wages and have to retire on a pension.

    Yes, ex PS, VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT, before they totally destroy our society with their greed and cruelty.
    Old Geezer
    8th Sep 2017
    4:18pm
    Rainey most people are irresponsible with money as evidenced by the growth in credit card debt in this country. There is no way credit cards would have been profitable if people were responsible and knew how to handle money. Gambling is another thing that shows how irresponsible people are. Many people are broke at the end of the week and hanging out for their next pay pack just like most of those on welfare are. Many people are one pay pack away form bankruptcy as evidenced by the default rate on home loans when a recession hits.

    So it doesn't matter who is in power as it has nothing to do with government at all.
    Anonymous
    9th Sep 2017
    1:36am
    ''Most people'' is not the same as 'people on welfare', OG. There are far more irresponsible people on high salaries or having inherited or gifted wealth than there are struggling on miserable pensions. And if you are on a pension, you are likely to be forced to be responsible because you are unlikely to have enough to be able to afford to waste anything. And people on welfare are unlikely to have ready access to much credit. If they have credit cards at all, they will have very low credit limits to protect against default.

    I know a lot of pensioners and ALL of them are responsible money managers. I also know a lot of well-to-do people and NOT ONE OF THEM is responsible with money.
    RooWalk
    5th Sep 2017
    1:42pm
    Why not force these card on the government, maybe that way they will stop spending beyond their means and bankrupting Australia.
    Rosret
    5th Sep 2017
    1:49pm
    So how would that work? You can have a new Princes Highway between Wollongong and Eden. The Defence force can have new submarines and a few fighters....
    Isn't this how it works now? Even the treasurer never actually sees any real dollars and cents.
    PS Its not going to be government spending that causes our demise - its going to be energy prices grinding the business sector to a crushing halt.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:03pm
    Pollies already use a card that can be audited at any time.
    GeorgeM
    5th Sep 2017
    11:52pm
    RooWalk, indeed they need to review all Politician's remuneration and remove all items which are not available for the general public, e.g. their over-generous Pensions and other perks, and also implement drug & alcohol testing to ensure they are only paid if they remain clean. That will have the major advantage by only having sober people running this country making important decisions which affect everyone.
    Rosret
    6th Sep 2017
    7:21am
    Would you like to be drug and alcohol tested during your career George?
    Would you have not found it an infringement of civil liberty?
    I remember starting at a new place of work and for the first time in my working career we had to sign on and off. It made me feel horrible inside, like a pawn in the system. - they didn't trust us as a work force.
    The next place I went to - same job - no sign in. Somehow we all got there - on time - on duty - and performing loyally as part of the team not a minion.
    Trust your workers and they will return the favour. Mistrust and they will find ways to beat the system and cause an us and them mentality.
    Hating Parliamentarians serves no one. Let them work for you. Be a lobbyist and challenge both parties to meet your needs.
    Rae
    6th Sep 2017
    8:13am
    Rosret I worked on a huge campus where everyone had to be accounted for at all times in case of lockdown or evacuation. You had to sign in and out overtime you entered or exited the site for security and safety.

    Same applied when I worked for the Australian Army. We were always signed in and out and held regular roll calls for security.

    I never felt like a pawn in the system but knew if it went pear shaped and my name wasn't naked off a search for me would occur.

    And anyone can be drug or alcohol tested just driving on the roads.
    Rae
    6th Sep 2017
    8:13am
    ' marked off' haha
    GeorgeM
    6th Sep 2017
    10:44pm
    Rosret, yes, if you are using taxpayer's money and supposed to deliver important outcomes for the people, you have a responsibility to be absolutely clean and not affected by intoxicants. I see no problem in testing all people in such roles especially politicians who are making such rules for others. Politicians, especially in the last 30 years, have badly let down this country while significantly improving their own income & perks, and not satisfied even with that we have also had too many examples of rorters to list here. So action is needed to ensure we the people get quality MPs - maybe a recall by petition mechanism is needed, also a Federal ICAC, otherwise your suggestion is a waste of time & useless as they simply ignore the people after getting elected.

    5th Sep 2017
    1:56pm
    Fantastic
    Well done MT
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    3:20pm
    Well done MT keep up the good work we'll get you sacked yet.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    3:44pm
    And your problem with this excellent initiative is what exactky, Tib ?
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:54pm
    Don't for one minute think that Labor won't support it as well.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    4:03pm
    Don't worry guys we know Mal is not getting another term anyway. I think they should give Tony another go might as well go out with a bang. If he's not too pissed to vote?
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    4:04pm
    I suspect Tib's is one of these rorters who withdraws his OAP in cash and sticks it in his safe
    Spends down his assets so he can keep getting full pension
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    4:08pm
    Sounds like you have just found some of that 33 billion missing in $100 notes Raphael.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    5:17pm
    Ha ha actually I have way too much money for the OAP but I'm not bitter about like you guys. But nice try.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    5:48pm
    So you agree its a good mechanism to stop the rorters

    finally Tib sees some sense
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    6:32pm
    I said nothing of the sort. You're not making sense again. Oh dear you're a bit of a worry.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    6:37pm
    So you support rorting of the dole and OAP

    Got it Tibs

    You are a worry - very un-Australian
    Rae
    6th Sep 2017
    8:16am
    And what is your opinion Raphael on the $4000 cost of the card management costing taxpayers and going to a select few and the LNP party.

    At least if the ALP get in they may end that sort depending on the contracts signed. An ICAC investigation in the future perhaps?
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    11:01am
    That $4000 cost is nothing but a beat up form those on social media. Funny thing is that it changes so often too.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    3:18pm
    Rae - the $4,000 or whatever rubbery figure you say will be more than offset by reduction in fraud, savings in other welfare expenses like health and social services and a better home environment for families
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    6:06am
    What rubbish, Raphael. There are no savings from this disgusting scheme. People will find ways around it just as they always have found ways around misguided and cruel government restrictions. It won't reduce fraud. It will just compound the social problems resulting from persecution and shaming of the disadvantaged. Crime will increase. Domestic violence will increase as a result of frustration. Living costs for welfare recipients will increase as a result of reduced freedom to manage their own affairs and choose freely where to shop. Anyone who thinks there will be improvements is naïve and gullible and has no idea what life is like in the real world. You are typical of the privileged, who just don't get the realities for those who haven't had your opportunities.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:01pm
    Great news now it should be rolled out to all those on welfare including OAPs. If you see it as some sort of shame card then you are right. It is welfare given to you because you failed to provide for yourself in old age.

    It might just make people think that just maybe a job is a better idea than welfare and fix the welfare mentality of this once great country.
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    3:17pm
    If you are on the OAP you are very likely not able to work. But thankyou for your complete lack of compassion , very Liberal of you.
    All those nasty poor people ruining your view from your Sydney mansion, now you want to make them pay. I understand.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    3:20pm
    Agree its a great idea for OAP as well

    Anyone who calls it a shame card is delusional.

    OAP is no different to the dole
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    3:49pm
    I see Raphael and old Geezer won't have to use the card. So no problem. Nothing makes someone from the right happier than oppressing the poor. I'm sure it makes you all warm inside guys.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:53pm
    I would have no problem myself in using the card if I was given one.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    4:01pm
    i would happily take the card if I was eligible

    I can see a lot of businesses offering discounts to attract cardholders to spend the OAP money with them
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    5:29pm
    Ok I get it you don't get the OAP but not wanting people less fortunate than yourselves to get it is mean spirited, I think we can do better than that in this country , I don't believe we should follow the US , I believe Australia is better than that.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    5:37pm
    I don't as proven by the irresponsibility of those on welfare shows. People on welfare are like children and need looking after as they can't seem to do it themselves.
    52-KID
    5th Sep 2017
    7:32pm
    I don't like to speak badly of people - you know the saying "don't say anything if you can't say something nice"? But you, Old Geezer, are a very nasty old man. I am on the OAP after coming off a Disability Pension, and I am very offended by your attitude.

    I have worked all my life since I was 15 up until about my mid fifties when I just couldn't work any more. Getting a Disability Pension is not any easy affair, but I did get it, and so means I deserved it. Now I am officially "old", I have transferred to the OAP.

    But I am NOT like a child who needs looking after. Of course a job is better than getting welfare, but there are those among the pension recipients who can genuinely not work and who need this Pension. I don't now what your profession was/is, but not all of us have had the opportunity to earn the money you must have to be able to support ourselves in style.

    Try living off the pension for a month, and then tell me again that it's too generous. It's barely enough to get by on, certainly not generous.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    7:52pm
    Im sorry you were on diability and unable to work 52-KID

    The card is a good system that will prevent abuse and rorting. This means more money available for the majority of honest Australians on and off welfare

    The system is in the best interest of all honest pensioners and taxpayers
    52-KID
    5th Sep 2017
    8:16pm
    I don't disagree with you Raphael, I have heard good reports about the card. It wouldn't worry me, would be just like getting a pre-loaded debit card each fortnight - can't see a problem with that. Not sure how the "cash" works, if it actually goes into your bank account like now that would be just fine. Mmm, thinking about it more, it maybe wouldn't suit everyone - I pay for all my bills with internet banking, and use my debit card for incidentals, like food and maybe one treat each pay, like chiro or physio.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    9:51pm
    Disagree with me but the fact is that anyone who goes on welfare hasn't been able to provide for themselves and as such needs help in responsible spending of their welfare.

    I have no problem living off less than the OAP and have been doing so now for decades so I do see it as too generous especially given all the concessions as well. Many people in Australia today live on less than the OAP without the concessions. I only buy what I need and can't see the point of living in style at all. Even today after being retired for nearly 3 decades I still earn more than I spend as I don't believe in spending money just because I earn it. Anyone can do it as it's just a matter of no matter how much you earn you just spend less than you earn and the power of compounding interest etc does the rest.

    I pay for all most everything with a credit card and reap the rewards with a free return flight for an extra holiday every year plus other benefits. Credit cards are like fire a good slave but poor master.

    As I have said I would have no problem using a cash card at all. I also see anyone that opposes using it as having something to hide other than their pride.
    GeorgeM
    5th Sep 2017
    11:55pm
    Absolute crap from OG - all the comments on this topic - in fact he is off topic as this program has nothing to do with Age Pensioners.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    8:38am
    Raphael, you are wrong about the card meaning more money for those on welfare. It will rip billions out of the welfare budget to pay the extortionate cost of the card to the corrupt LNP politicians who are lining the pockets of their buddies and taking donations from Indue. $4000 per annum per cardholder will go to Indue, PLUS all the interest from any portion of the card that is unused by any holder. In total, we could see more than $3.2 billion ripped out of the welfare budget if the use of the card is extended as the LNP plan.

    The system is DEFINITELY NOT in the interests of honest taxpayers.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    8:47am
    OG, on the one hand you boast about travelling and shouting your kids trips, and on the other you claim to live off less than the OAP. One or the other is a lie. But then, you contradict yourself constantly, as well as making vile and disgustingly nasty and cruel comments about anyone who falls on hard times.

    As for branding anyone who can't provide for themselves ''irresponsible'' - that's disgusting and grossly untrue. Is my grandson ''irresponsible'' because he was born with a serious disability? Is my niece ''irresponsible'' because she has Downs Syndrome? Is the man down the street ''irresponsible'' because his wife died of cancer and left him with four small children to support?

    You really need a reality check and to learn some respect and human decency, OG. Your comments make you appear to be a really horrible person.
    52-KID
    6th Sep 2017
    9:48am
    Yes, Old Geezer, we will have to agree to disagree.
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    11:37am
    Sounds to me Rainey like they all need support and what better way to help them than giving them a cashless card.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    3:19pm
    $3.2billion ripped off ???

    Are you mad Rainey. Its ok dont answer that
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    8:34pm
    Correct Rainey I do live on less than the OAP but I do occasionally take some of my capital and spend it on travelling and treating the family. Isn't that why we all saved for retirement so we can spend it?
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    5:46am
    So you DO NOT live on less than the OAP. Tell someone who has no assets and whose only income is the pension to use their capital for the things the pension doesn't stretch to!!! You are not being truthful, OG. If you have capital and you draw on it, however infrequently, you are NOT living on the OAP and you should stop lying to justify your cruel and nasty remarks about those who are.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    6:00am
    No, Raphael, I'm not mad. But clearly you can't do math. There are more than 625,000 on unemployment benefits in Australia currently. Multiply that by $4000 per person and that's an annual cost of $2.5 billion right there, NOT counting all those to whom the card has already been issues or will be issued soon who are on other types of welfare, nor others on welfare who will be caught in the net. If just another 175,000 use the card, that's $3.2 billion.
    Allie
    5th Sep 2017
    3:05pm
    $10,000 to operate this card.
    Who is getting it?
    "Indue"..the company that LNP gets money from...(Money laundering??)

    This is about a divided nation..a divided people...Being poor, being needy means strangers judge you and deem you 'unable to manage your money'.
    This is disgusting.
    We are all suppose to be equal in Australia.

    This 'roll out' is for the rich mates of Conservatives to get richer off the poor.

    Immoral, revolting, shameful, divisive, cruel and proved to be a failure in NZ and other nations who 'gave it a go'.

    Enough!
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:19pm
    What a lot of rubbish!

    I see you have been reading and believing social media.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    3:21pm
    The pilot schemes were a resounding success.

    Enough of your greenie / bludger propoganda
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:40pm
    Even if it does now cost $10,000 per card then when it gets rolled out to all those on welfare including the OAP it will be mere cents per person.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    3:43pm
    OG - also I expect the payment will be in a matter of months as it will also help prevent fraud
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:46pm
    Raphael it will also increase GST and income tax as tit's use will force more people to disclose more of their income and not pocket the GST.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    3:58pm
    meant payback will be in a matter of month

    yes - no more under the table ash payments
    win win for taxpayer
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    4:01pm
    Many wealthy tradesmen use these under the table transactions and target those on welfare to do so.
    Rae
    6th Sep 2017
    8:37am
    Why does the LNP always set these things up to allow price gouging and corruption? Just once an idea like this could be set up without the money for my mates mentality spoiling it.

    A not for profit management and some extra money into these target communities for services etc would have been nice.
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    9:54am
    Schemes like these have to be administered and that costs money, we have to hope that what we are saving in costs to the community and cash for the government out ways the cost of the scheme. If not it then just becomes another vote catching scam.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    5:40am
    ex PS, you would have to be very naïve to think the scheme could save any money - let alone outweigh the extortionate cost the LNP has wrongly agreed to pay for it. It is a vote catching scam, and corruption at its worst! How can it possibly save money? Addicts will find ways around the restrictions it imposes. The black market will find ways to exploit the system. Responsible folk will struggle with the wrongful restrictions on their capacity to budget and save for periodic large bills, and will battle with the higher costs of living resulting from restrictions on where you can shop. Vendors will either charge for using the card or raise prices to cover their costs of accepting it. Crime will likely INCREASE and domestic violence will increase because of frustration resulting from not being able to obtain alcohol etc when it's wanted.

    There is no way the administration cost comes to $4000 per person. If it did, credit and debit cards would not be viable. This is just an LNP ripoff, and the only ''love'' involved is the LNP's love of profits and donations. This scheme shames and persecutes, and will result in more social problems than ever before. The irresponsible need support and education, not systems that take away all need, capacity and incentive to work to improve their lives. Charities were doing a great job of helping those who struggle to manage their lifestyle and budget - but they were doing it the RIGHT way, with coupons, vouchers and goods combined with education and support programs.

    5th Sep 2017
    3:54pm
    When people receive welfare it is expected that such welfare will go to feed and clothe the recipients and their families. When welfare is abused and the funds are used for illegal drugs and excessive use of alcohol, some interference by government is warranted. To make welfare 75% food and clothing and 25% cash may not be too big an imposition for those who treat the welfare system as it should be treated and still allows freedom of choice with spending to a lesser degree. Those who have abused the welfare system are the people who have caused this to happen, not the government, and it's the families of those who abuse the system who the government is trying to protect. It has been made abundantly clear that age pensions will not be included in the cashless welfare scheme.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    3:59pm
    Age pensioners should also get the welfare card as there just as many of them that are just as bad as the rest on welfare.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    4:14pm
    I disagree with your premise that an age pension is welfare Old Geezer. They have reached an age where they are no longer required to work if they choose not to and are given a pension. The majority of age pensioners have been contributors to the tax system for around 50 years and those taxes have been used, in part, to support those who have reached retirement age earlier. A pension is an entitlement, subject to eligibility, not welfare and those who receive a pension should be allowed to spend it as they choose.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    4:20pm
    No old age pension is welfare as it is like all other welfare and is given to those who have no other means of support. It has nothing to do with how much or how little you contributed to the tax system, if you even worked or not etc. It is determined like all other welfare on whether you need help to support yourself. That my friend is nothing but welfare.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    5:01pm
    You're damned by your own words Old Geezer, "old age pension" it's not old age welfare. There are some who are quite well off and receive a part age pension which gives them another means of support.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    5:32pm
    Old age pension is not a real pension at all as there is nothing at all backing it like real pension. I'd call it a senior's welfare payment myself and that would fix it so everyone knew exactly what it really was. Yes some people should not be on the OAP and that will be fixed in time as they tighten up the eligibility in the future. The change in the assets test was a good first step but I see more to come as it is still way too generous.
    GeorgeM
    6th Sep 2017
    12:02am
    Agree, Old Man, with your comments. Age Pension is NOT welfare and is paid for. The usual load of crap from the right-wing troll OG. This article is not about Age Pensions at all and there is no logic or plan to include it in such a program. OG's attempt to divert the topic into Age Pensions is dishonest and essentially a case of Sour Grapes for him. In fact, OG will have to pay more in future taxes to ensure OAPs are paid more as currently the rates are low.
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    10:11am
    So Old Geezer, who is a well known accolade of the coalition has spelled it out for us.
    The government wants to make receivers of the OAP Entitlement, welfare recipients so that they can control how you spend YOUR money. So if you wish to preserve your dignity and your control over your own lives you must vote these underachievers out. Not only will that stop them but it will serve as a warning to other governments who want to take control of your lives.
    What a prospect, no booze, no tobacco, no luxuries and no pride, your pension is there to allow you to exist, you have no right to the pursuit of happiness. You may not live much longer, but it will certainly feel like you are ( In misery). But never mind you can probably get a job somewhere for the minimum wage, at least that will provide the governments backers with cheap labor.
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    11:07am
    No PS it will just that you wont be able to spend the lot on booze, smokes or drugs. This is a good thing not a bad thing as people will have to spend it on what they should be spending it on and will be much healthier which will also help our health budget as well.
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    8:28pm
    Yes O.G, and here's me thinking that a democracy is about free choice maybe you would prefer us all to be governed by a Stalinist government so that they have total control. Communism is all about controlling people for their own good.
    One good thing about this proposal, it will rid us of an incompetent, out of date government. What retiree in their right mind would vote for a government that thinks they have a right to control them just because they are of a certain age?
    It will start with people on the O.A.P Entitlement and work its way towards S.F.R's. If you keep them where they are you have only yourselves to blame.
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:52am
    ''It has been made abundantly clear that age pensions will not be included in the cashless welfare scheme.''

    Really, Old Man? And it was made abundantly clear before the last election that there would be ''no changes to pensions''. How long did that last? Can't trust the lying LNP for an instant. You'd have to be a complete fool to believe their promises.
    Old Geezer
    7th Sep 2017
    5:11pm
    PS self funded retirees are no different than the rest of taxpayers in the country so it will be very difficult to target them without affecting all taxpayers. The only ones they can target are the ones with most of their money in super. As I have only about 10% of my wealth in super it will have a minimal affect on me.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    10:02am
    And as usual, the selfish OG cares only about his own welfare, and to hell with the nation and the rest of society. In fact, he delights in seeing others suffer.
    enjaypee
    5th Sep 2017
    4:21pm
    What about people like myself who religiously put aside a designated amount of my OAP into a separate account which over a period of 12 months covers all my bills - I run a spreadsheet on my PC and need to put $310 each fortnight into this account, then pay all my bills via BPay. Then there are other unexpected bills (like my plumber or car servicing) which need to be paid. If I'm left with only 20% of my pension I would be unable to put aside my "bills" money.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    4:26pm
    enjay - you put this aside by not spending the full amount on your card.
    there should be a mechanism to "save'' the excess for use on a rainy day, but again only for essentials - not for a cruise or a drunken party
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    5:35pm
    Agree just leave it on your card instead. I don't use multiple bank accounts for my budgeting as that is just too much extra work for very little if any gain.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    7:53am
    Yep, just leave excess on your card and line the pockets of the owners of Indue, instead of getting a little interest for yourself. Since Indue gets $4000 per year per person on the card PLUS the interest, billions that could be spend on health, education and welfare will be spent instead to enrich some LNP policitians' buddies and line the LNP coffers with donation money. And some of you favour that kind of corruption and deprivation of the nation??? No wonder the national debt keeps climbing!
    Rae
    6th Sep 2017
    8:46am
    Yes Rainey that is the big problem with this and it didn't have to be done this way at all. A good idea once again corrupted by the greed factor.
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    10:17am
    "Just leave it on your card", anyone who would make such a suggestion knows nothing about finance and managing money. If you leave money in a Debit Card Account, you are actually losing money you are not even making the pitiful amount of interest that you would get in a Savings Account.
    Compared to that suggestion, you would be far better off just blowing the lot every fortnight, at least you are not losing money.
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    10:58am
    Ps if you are getting interest on your welfare money then you simply do not need it.

    Rainey it costs no more than any debit or credit card per person. If only a few used debit or credit cards then the cost would be high too. Looks like you have taken that social media stuff hook, line and sinker to me.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    3:21pm
    exPS - we are talking about OAP
    How much interest and savings do you think the average pensioner gets ?

    Time to reduce the pension methinks. Obviously wayyyy to generous
    ex PS
    6th Sep 2017
    8:33pm
    O.G make up your mind, you just criticized people for not managing their money effectively, and now you are criticizing people who want to manage their money in the best way possible.
    Raphael, try to keep up, we are actually talking about welfare not the O.A.P.
    Neither of you are making much sense, I think you just argue to get attention.
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:39am
    It would be a very stupid pensioner who spent all their money on receipt, because then they would have nothing in reserve for the big bills that come quarterly or annually. So the card is disadvantaging welfare recipient who actually tries to manage their money sensibly. Therefore, it's a BAD THING. It will drive more carelessness and irresponsibility and more overspending.
    Old Geezer
    7th Sep 2017
    5:14pm
    Many OAPs take their money out of the bank as soon as it goes in. Whether they spend it all or save some under the mattress I have no idea. If they get a big bill then their is always a charity to help them out. At least with a cashless card they won't be able to take all their money out and put it under the mattress and then ask charities for help. Remember welfare people can't be that responsible if they are relying upon welfare in old age.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    12:29am
    You are so bigoted and horrid, OG. Many people rely on welfare in old age despite being highly responsible, simply because all the benefits funded by taxes go to the high paid to subsidize their superannuation and fund THEIR retirement, while the low paid get NOTHING and are expected to save for retirement our of a wage inadequate to support their family and pay off their home. If we stopped funding retirement for the rich and started paying decent amounts into a fund for the poor - as was intended when funding for the OAP was set up - there would be enough for all. But the greedy, arrogant well off - like you - take it all and then gloat and look down on the real lifters, without whom you would have NOTHING.
    keandha
    5th Sep 2017
    5:20pm
    Not sure why Tib states that pensioners will not be able to buy a bottle of wine again. My impression was that only a percentage of the benefit was on the card, the remainder was still in cash form. Typical scare-mongering
    Tib
    5th Sep 2017
    5:24pm
    The point of the card is no alcohol or drugs and wine is alcohol.
    Old Geezer
    5th Sep 2017
    5:29pm
    Easy just make your own instead.
    Anonymous
    5th Sep 2017
    6:25pm
    should also exclude ciggarettes. Moer savings in store with reduced healthcare costs

    MT is onto a winner thats for sure
    KSS
    6th Sep 2017
    7:21am
    keandha you are quite right and Tib has no idea.

    Up to 50% of the welfare may be paid in cash IF the community advisory group agrees. Otherwise you get about 20% in cash and the rest on the debit card. Its the amount on the card that you cannot use to buy alcohol. Do what they like with the 20%; Wine, beer, stuff it into the pokies... whatever.
    keandha
    6th Sep 2017
    3:26pm
    Thanks KSS. Tib seems to have one view (his own biased one) and can't see any other point made in other posts.
    CindyLou
    5th Sep 2017
    7:58pm
    The benefit remains unchanged - I would be just grateful to revive a benefit.
    pussycat
    5th Sep 2017
    11:26pm
    The Government is telling lies when it says this card is the same as any other card issued by the banks. It does not only restrict alcohol and drugs. It does NOT allow online purchases or payments, you can't use eBay for instance. You can't use it at any business unless that business had signed up to be part of the scheme and has paid a fee for the pleasure. You can't buy groceries in a store that also sells alcohol unless that store sets up a separate checkout just for card users. The card is distinctive in colour and the use of it immediately labels a person to be a recipient of welfare. The card company is a private firm named INDUE with ownership connected to members of the Liberal party - it is not a bank. The Government payments on the card include parenting payments, student payments, invalid pension, unemployment benefits. It would seem to me that the card has been rolled out first in area where the population is largely indigenous so that in general people will not be sympathetic to those on it. Then to say it is a success is not correct either as the community people saying it is working are the Mayors etc. not the people being forced to use it. Their opinions appear to be less than favourable, A 80/20 split of the benefits paid does not allow enough cash for school lunches, school trips, purchases at markets etc. The card may be a good idea for anyone who is known to be wasting all their money on drugs and alcohol, but most people can manage their money without any problems. eventually even Age Pensions will be included. Whether you are on a pension or if you are employed - try to put yourself in the position of having 80% of your income restricted and only 20% available for cash purchases. I think you would soon see that this is situation impossible.
    GeorgeM
    6th Sep 2017
    12:11am
    Get your knowledge updated. It has been made abundantly clear that age pensions will not be included in the cashless welfare scheme. Sure you should not trust this right-wing Govt for your future as anything is possible. But then Labor also refused to revert the changes to Age Pension assets test. The only course of action for righ & fair-thinking people is to vote Liberals, Labor & Greens out by putting them last in preferences depending on who is holding the seat. That way we may get a new set of MPs who might get the message that they need to work for the people.

    This article is not about Age Pensions, however as I have noted before Age Pension system needs to be replaced completely, and it should be paid to all who have paid taxes here (including spouses) for 20+ years without any Asset or Income tests, and get them off Centrelink administration. All additional real income should be taxed.
    KSS
    6th Sep 2017
    7:27am
    Pussycat I strongly advise you to actually read the report and compare outcomes from wave 1 and wave 2. Concerns raised at wave 1 were largely addressed and the results are clearly positive. Especially read the report on the 7% who thought their children were worse off now than before and learn what this actually related to. Also look at the reasons for the low 17% who claimed their children's lives had improved. Frankly if only 1 parent said one child's life had improved it would be a success in my opinion.

    Then look at the increase in the numbers in those communities actively seeking financial counselling and learning how to manage their money, look at the numbers of those people now actually able save small amounts. There are many more benefits to this welfare cards than simply the huge drop in drugs, alcohol and domestic violence crimes. And by the way; there was NO appreciable increase in other crime during the trials!
    Rosret
    6th Sep 2017
    7:30am
    Pussycat indigenous families in these towns have welcomed the move. At last they have 80% of their welfare to spend on food, clothing and housing.
    It is a problem not for just one group of people but all drug and alcoholic dependent welfare beneficiaries. The cost of testing "all" is a slight on everyone,very demeaning and very expensive.
    For obvious reasons they would have to block online purchasing but I agree with you - there is no need for the card to be a special colour.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    7:45am
    One-third of participants felt their lives worsened as a result of the card and only 17% said their children's lives improved. You are wrong, Rosret. Sorry! And 100% would oppose the card if they knew it meant redirecting $4000 per year per recipient into profits for mates of LNP politicians instead of to education, health and welfare.

    It's corruption at its worst.

    6th Sep 2017
    7:31am
    Of course the LNP would declare the trial a success since LNP politicians own the company supplying the card and are receiving obscene profits from the high costs associated with it, and making donations to the LNP out of the profits. The whole system is corrupt in the extreme.

    As for regulating spending, it may have some minimal advantages for a small group of people but addicts will always find a way and many more spouses and children will be beaten and abused because addicts can't get money to get their fix or grog. Families will suffer greater deprivation when addicts or alcoholics or gamblers sell the card to get cash.

    The card cannot be used everywhere and many are reporting much higher living costs because they can't shop locally in remote areas and can't take advantage of bargains on eBay or at second hand markets and garage sales.

    We are in grave danger of denigrating to a nation where the poor are left homeless and destitute and are shamed.

    Welfare recipients need a hand up, not a hand out. And this card is the exact opposite of what is needed. It's not just a hand out, but a handout that strips people of self-respect and oppresses. What is needed is encouragement, education, and support - not shaming and degradation.

    This card will keep welfare recipients in their place - FIRMLY DOWN! Which is precisely what the elite snobs want. It has nothing to do with helping people and it certainly has nothing to do with love. It's about elitism, snobbery, and retaining superiority for the privileged - AND profits for the ''chosen'' and donations for the LNP.
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    10:54am
    Rainey the card will be able to used like any other debit or credit card.

    It is also rubbish that the LNP politicians own the company as well.

    It is not only good for those using it but will reign in the black economy as well. Yes stop those wealthy tradesman do jobs for cash at cheaper rate for pensioners.
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:35am
    Wrong again, OG. There are thousands of vendors who do not accept the card. It is NOT usable like any other card. And it is FACT that the company supplying and managing the card (Indue) is owned by an LNP politician and Indue makes significant donations to the LNP in return for the contract that pays it $4000 per person per year to manage the card system.

    It is NOT good for those using it, and it will NOT reign in the black economy. It's elitism at its very worst - bullying and shaming the disadvantaged to profit the rich. But of course you would support it, because you are an elitist snob who has nothing but contempt for the needy.

    As for tradesmen doing jobs for cash for pensioners - they will rip off pensioners with extortionate rates if paid by card and pensioners won't be able to afford essential home repair and renovation. Then pensions will have to rise to alleviate the dangers presented by elderly living in homes that are in bad repair. You make no sense, OG. You are just obsessed with beating up on everyone so you can gloat. Sick!
    Old Geezer
    7th Sep 2017
    3:14pm
    Well if it's not accepted then those vendors who do not accept it will be doing themselves out of a lot of business. As I said it is no different to any other credit or debit card and will be able to be used where ever they can be used.

    So it's OK for wealthy tradesmen not to pay tax and GST but it not OK for those who arrange their businesses according to the law to pay the required amount of tax.
    Anonymous
    8th Sep 2017
    5:43am
    Nobody said GST or tax evasion was okay, OG, but positioning pensioners to be unable to secure trades services when needed is far worse than losing a few tax dollars here and there. And tax evasion by tradesmen is nothing compared to tax avoidance by the filthy rich and huge corporations. But the LNP always attacks the little man and lets the big guy cheat, hoard and engage in corruption. And that's all this shameful and disgusting scheme is about - persecuting the little guy and giving corruptly indulging the filthy rich.

    6th Sep 2017
    7:39am
    Read and be educated please:
    https://theaimn.com/lnp-welfare-card-true-facts-exposed-corruption-disguised-philanthropy/
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    10:52am
    Rainey that is complete rubbish peddled by those on social media.
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:30am
    No OG. It's FACT. Evidenced and not denied.
    Old Geezer
    7th Sep 2017
    3:09pm
    No complete rubbish especially coming from that website.

    6th Sep 2017
    7:42am
    The Welfare Card programme does not produce savings for the government but adds another level of administrative bureaucracy and cost on top of the current welfare payments system. In fact, the new look Welfare Card, which is a revamp of the former Basics Card, costs upwards of $4,000 person to implement and manage and the previous Basics Card cost $6000 per person. That is, for every person compelled to use the card the Government will also pay Indue upward of $4,000 each. That’s $4,000 that could have been spent on that person directly or as a contribution toward the provision of services to communities with health, educational and employment needs or on reducing the alleged government debt. If every person receiving unemployment benefits were placed on the Welfare Card the cost to the tax payer of the administration of the card alone, not including the actual welfare payments made, would be approximately $3.2 billion more than the cost of the current welfare payment system. That money will be paid to Indue, or to any other private card provider or crony of the LNP Government that it wants to lavish with public funds, but not to those in need.

    We are talking about redirecting BILLIONS from education, health and welfare budgets into the pockets of wealthy mates of LNP politicians. If you think that's a good thing, you need your head read!
    Old Geezer
    6th Sep 2017
    10:51am
    Of course systems cost more per person when only used by a few but if used by millions then it costs mere cents per person.

    If the money was given directly to them instead that wold be a bigger waste of money as it would only make the problem worse.

    The sooner it is rolled out to all on welfare including the OAP the better off every one in this country will be.
    Anonymous
    6th Sep 2017
    3:22pm
    how do you come up with the "extra" $3.2billion?
    Anonymous
    7th Sep 2017
    4:30am
    OG, you obviously don't comprehend. The cost is $4000 per person. It won't reduce to cents if the program is extended. It's unlikely to reduce at all. The LNP is using this program to boost its own coffers. It has nothing to do with ''love'' - only greed!

    And nobody ever proposed giving the extra to welfare recipients, although it SHOULD be used to raise them above the poverty line. It would NEVER be a waste of money to raise battlers above the poverty line, but it's certainly a MASSIVE WASTE to give it to rich LNP party members and use it to fund political propaganda.

    Raphael, that's the estimated cost of extending the program to all unemployed at $4000 per annum per person.
    Rae
    7th Sep 2017
    9:23am
    Yes Rainey and that 3.2 billion going to rich men's tax haven accounts is about the amount they saved by shafting self funded retirees in that 2015 legislation.

    This must be the most corrupt government since the days of The Rum Corp.
    Old Geezer
    7th Sep 2017
    11:06am
    Ha ha Rainey that $4000 changes daily it seems. It is nothing but a rubbery figure spread about by those on social media who want to keep their drug and grog money intact.

    I agree we do have a rum corp government while ever they continue to pay people to buy grog and drugs. It is only one step away from actually giving them grog and drugs instead.

    I also believe that a certain big grocery chain who makes more out of grog than groceries is also using people to campaign on their behalf against this card.
    SuziJ
    8th Sep 2017
    12:09pm
    First of all, those on the Age Pension, or are nearing the age, won't be affected. The information from the following website says the following:

    http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/8/7/4/15

    'PENSION AGE

    PERSONS WHO HAVE REACHED AGE PENSION AGE OR THOSE WHO WOULD REACH AGE PENSION AGE DURING THE 12 MONTHS OF THE TRIAL IN THE RELEVANT TRIAL REGION WILL BE EXEMPT FROM THE TRIAL.'

    Now it's time to put your worries aside, as it's not going to affect most of us.

    Just remember, folks, that's it's only in it's trial phase at present & it could be quite some time before the national roll-out would begin. It could take quite a number of years before the full roll-out even sees the light of day, especially if we have a change in government over the next 18-24 months.
    Old Geezer
    8th Sep 2017
    4:08pm
    Just like they did when they put welfare money into bank accounts they will roll out this cashless card to all those on welfare including the OAP. Since you have not earnt the money then you should be accountable to the taxpayer on how you spend the money. I certainly don't want to be paying for drugs, grog or gambling for any one else when I don't use any of them myself.
    Anonymous
    9th Sep 2017
    1:27am
    Only a fool thinks any government can stop people spending as they wish, OG. Remember Prohibition? In North WA there are huge alcohol restrictions and the people pay relatives to load unmarked cases of grog on Greyhound buses and ship them up there.

    I don't want to pay for rich pigs to rort the tax system. And I don't want to pay overpaid idiots to make stupid laws that drive increased crime and mental illness. I don't want to pay moron bureaucrats to torment needy disadvantaged people. But because of creeps like you, I have to. I have to subsidize obscene tax concessions to the high paid while the low paid are trampled on.

    Shut up with your nastiness and cruelty and let our society retain some level of freedom and decency. We need to get rid of the SCUM making these cruel rules and restore some humanity.

    Hardly ANYBODY in this society EARNS their money, least of all the overpaid inept privileged pigs who look down on the real lifters for wanting a drink at the end of a hard day. Stop feeding the greedy before you trample on the needy.

    But yes, they WILL extend the system to aged pensioners. Their promises are all blatant lies. Greed will win every time, and they are ripping off the taxpayer with this scheme to the tune of billions to fund LNP propaganda. There will be no limits unless we vote this SCUM out soon.
    pussycat
    9th Sep 2017
    1:57am
    It gets worse as it goes along. Indue has now been sold to an overseas company called StarGroup Ltd (based I think in Hong Kong but don't quote me as it's a bit hard to get information) - the following is an overview of the business -

    " Stargroup is a dual listed technology company that owns a 350+ ATM network in Australia and provides EFTPOS and payWave technologies, and has a 11% interest in NeoICP Korea Inc, the manufacturer of cashPod ATMs, back office and casino settlement solutions.

    Stargroup offers two key products - ATMs and EFTPOS terminals."

    An overriding interest in maintaining millions of cards - good for business. The original owners must be feeling rather happy at the moment.
    LiveItUp
    9th Sep 2017
    7:33am
    If the cash card makes as much money as you say Rainey an investment in Stargroup code STL might be a good opportunity to cash in on it yourself as well.

    10th Sep 2017
    11:45am
    A small businessman's view of the scheme:

    A small business owner in Ceduna says he is owed $100,000 and may have to close his doors because of the introduction of the cashless welfare card into the town.
    Malcolm Spry said he was told by representatives from the Department of Health and Human Services that his small, family-owned business, Homescene & Outdoors, would “thrive” once the card was implemented.

    'Ration days again': cashless welfare card ignites shame
    Read more

    He said he was initially open-minded about the card, which has seen welfare recipients in the trial sites of Ceduna in South Australia and Kununurra and Wyndham in Western Australia receive 80% of their welfare payments into a restricted debit card. It cannot be used to withdraw cash or buy alcohol or gambling products.
    Before the card’s introduction, Spry said he allowed low-income customers who were on welfare or struggling financially to buy goods including blankets, nursery items, bedding and heaters and to take them home and use them without paying upfront.
    “They needed those things now, not at the end of winter when they could finally pay a layby off,” the 62-year-old told Guardian Australia. “They’re needy people. Some would be crying, saying how cold they were.”
    He arranged for those people to pay for their purchases in instalments using the government’s Centrepay system, a free voluntary bill-paying service for welfare recipients where bills for items such as rent, childcare or essential household goods could be deducted directly from Centrelink payments.



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    Malcolm Spry with customers in his story in Ceduna. He says the cashless welfare card has put the future of his business at risk, because customers aren’t making credit repayments any more. Photograph: Malcolm Spry
    He said for almost 15 years he has been letting customers pay off goods in this way and that he had never had any problems. Thousands of customers honoured their repayments through the Centrepay system, he said.

    I’m angry at the people that implemented the card. They’re heartless
    Malcolm Spry

    But he said since those customers were put on the cashless welfare card, which is compulsory for all working-age welfare recipients in the trial towns, the repayments to his store had dried up. People were cancelling their Centrepay deductions or reducing repayments to trivial sums, he said.
    Spry believes this is because Centrelink arranges for bill payments for items such as rent and outstanding fines to be automatically deducted from the cashless welfare card at the point of sign-up. It gave people less discretion around how and when bill payments were made, he said. People no longer had enough money left on their card to pay back his business once other automatic payments had been deducted.
    “I was willing to see how the card went and now I’ve gone totally against it,” Spry said. “If you had of asked me a few weeks ago what I thought of it, you wouldn’t have gotten anything out of me. I’m a private person. I know everyone in the community. But when you know something is wrong, you’ve got to speak up.”
    But he said he was not angry at those who were no longer making repayments to his store. He said they had no choice and that the card had taken away discretion over their income management and spending.
    “I’m angry at the people that implemented the card,” Spry said. “They’re heartless. My family started this business in 1931 but if the card isn’t scrapped we will shut our business. We don’t want to hand it to our kids like this.
    “I have $100,000 in outstanding payments from the past few months. I was told by two government representatives, ‘Your business will thrive under this card.’ They don’t care about what businesses are facing.”
    Spry said he has stopped allowing Centrepay repayments altogether in the past month, a decision he said he found “heartbreaking” owing to the high number of people in need of goods like clothing and heating.


    Not the rosy picture the Lieberal Party are painting!
    Old Geezer
    11th Sep 2017
    3:59pm
    He sounds like he was taking advantage of people Rainey and got caught.
    Anonymous
    12th Sep 2017
    1:37am
    He was helping people, OG. He was helping them to acquire goods they struggled to save for, in a responsible way that advantaged both merchant and customer. And his experience is proof that vast numbers of these people do not abuse their welfare payment.
    Old Geezer
    12th Sep 2017
    12:35pm
    Is helping people taking advantage of people and the system as well to make a squillion? I don't think so.

    Looks to me like he took a big gamble and lost big time.
    MD
    11th Sep 2017
    11:07am
    Could this be yet another classic case of Govt gobbeldygook; i.e, another statistical/figurative/researched (purportedly backed by public comment/claims) cookup ? As to whether - or not- it is a cookup, the why's and wherefore's of collective wisdom as those expressed herein will predominately remain irrelevancies given the primary purpose of the Essentials Card. Any perceived loss of "freedoms/rights/invasions of privacy" & etc and etc by the sanctimonious keepers of the faith is largely null and void given that, to date, far too many of those folk, to which this card is likely to apply have already proven themselves almost totally incapable of money management. First and foremost,these 'funds', whether in the form of cash/cheque/direct debit or in this case a card are a social benefit, not as some would have us believe an "entitlement or right". Recipients of any form of Govt or social largesse should consider themselves privileged to be part of a caring society such as ours. This does however bring expectations of a reciprocal responsibility in that the individual who realizes the benefit will expend it in the most beneficial manner commensurate with his/her responsibility to both family and society. It is not a ticket to cop out and do as one pleases.

    Taxpayers past and present always seem vigilant in policing how the Govt doles out it's social reforms - till such time as it comes to justification of their own expectations to/for "entitlement". We - the franchised citizens - democratically elected the Govt to govern and dare I suggest that; rightly or wrongly, as anyone might imagine they 'see' or claim to understand this topic is irrelevant in that the elected Govt will govern as deemed fit.

    The case put by the Ceduna "businessman" could be a classic case in point of the previous/existing systems' inadequacy. IF the present/proposed Essential card holders were purchasing goods (homewares presumably) on the never never, doesn't this suggest the funds, courtesy of social benefits, had already been exhausted on consumables, i.e food, grog,& etc ? Added to this was the claim that once the card was implemented direct payment was then prioritized to "rent and outstanding fines" etc. We seriously need to question whether a reciprocal responsibility is being met by everyone embroiled in this card take and that is the responsibility of Govt to administer.
    Old Geezer
    12th Sep 2017
    12:36pm
    Ceduna businessman is upset he can no longer sell them alcohol as well.
    MD
    12th Sep 2017
    5:20pm
    OG,although you may be right, I myself would not dare to presume. Slur and innuendo - a base trait of human nature - that denigrates our fellow man, particularly lacking evidentiary proof reminds me of the proverb... 'When one person makes an accusation, check to be sure he himself is not the guilty one. Sometimes it is those whose case is weak who make the most clamour'.

    Given your endless 'holier than thou' chatter herein , nobody could accuse you of lacking clamour.
    Anonymous
    17th Sep 2017
    7:46am
    OG is the master of assumption and presumption. Never deals in facts. Has been proved wrong on the robo debt issue. Will be proved wrong on most other things he rants about as well.
    GregE
    13th Sep 2017
    11:20am
    As a new OAP I have a problem with a cashless card scenario, it removes some choices as to how I spend my money, does it mean that I can only shop at major supermarkets with small stores, markets and things like garage sales where cheaper alternatives can often be found being excluded, it would seem a serious restriction if that is the case.
    pussycat
    17th Sep 2017
    6:58pm
    GregE - All businesses must register and pay a fee to use the scheme for their customers. If they decide not to do this then you will not be able to shop there regardless of their size. Also supermarkets which also sell alcohol will be required to set up a separate checkout register for people using the card so everyone will be able to see if you are in that queue that you are receiving support payments of some kind. You will only be able to purchase things at markets, garage sales etc. if you can afford to do so out of the 20% cash component of your welfare payment.The information of what and where you purchase will be fed directly back to the card company 'Indue'. This company has now been sold to overseas based interests. Just think of all your private information being available to an overseas based company.

    A serious restriction indeed.

    17th Sep 2017
    7:50am
    The medical fraternity and a lot of other experts have come out and declared the Government's plan for drug testing ''cruel and dangerous'' and certain to result in more homelessness, mental illness and suicides. Why? Because it treats addicts as having a ''bad habit'' that they can be compelled to remedy, rather than as people suffering a mental illness and needing treatment.

    The cashless welfare card has similar implications. It deprives people of freedom of choice and self-respect. It denies people the opportunity to learn better management skills through practice and with educational support. It ignores the fact that mental illness is the root cause of most addictions - whether to gambling, alcohol or drugs. People need treatment, not punishment or deprivation. This is a cruel and dangerous scheme and one that intelligent Australians will resist with all their power, before it is extended to all welfare recipients (which is undoubtedly the LNP's long-term plan).