Tax cuts: older Australians will lose out in the long run

The Government’s tax package promises short-term gains but long-term pain.

Tax cuts: older Australians will lose out in the long run

While many workers around the nation will benefit from the passing of the Government’s $140 billion income tax package, older Australians will lose out in the long run, says the Australian Council of Social Services (ACOSS).

The short-term gains for working Australians will be minor, though well received. But, as ACOSS Chief Executive Cassandra Goldie warns, with the passing of these tax cuts occurring while the budget remains weak, people will lose access to essential services in the long term

“The tax cut package is gambling the future of our medical services, aged care services, disability services, and social security payments most of us rely upon at some stage in our lives,” said Dr Goldie.

“Essential services will lose funding because tax cuts have to be paid for. When that happens, every person in Australia loses. We will all have to pay for services that in Australia, have been universally available to us all.

"[The tax package] will carve out a gulf between the haves and have-nots in Australia": Dr Cassandra Goldie 

Senior economist at The Australia Institute, Matt Grudnoff, agrees.

“The overwhelming majority of retirees pay no tax and therefore will receive no benefit from such an income tax cut,” Mr Grudnoff told YourLifeChoices.

“They may, however, be very concerned that a tax cut reduces the amount of money that governments can spend on health services and the Age Pension – things that retirees depend on.”

Dr Goldie is concerned that the Coalition is looking for political points at a time when the economy, and the country, can least afford it.

“It will be a low point in Australian politics, where our politicians will have demonstrated a lack of care, responsibility and planning for the future,” she said.

“The biggest winners in the tax cut package are high-income earners. Middle income earners get little beyond the first stage. Low income earners don't figure at all.

“The package is a short-term gain only, with high income earners winning in the long term.

“Promising huge tax cuts six years in advance is foolhardy. Are we fortune tellers? No, and none of us know what will happen to the economy and the budget that far ahead.”

There have been rumblings from independent analysts, Labor and the Greens that the tax cuts will do little, if anything, to help our economy, with suggestions that the Government should look at cutting down on other concessions, such as negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts.

That way, working families could still benefit without sacrificing funding for essential services and risking a budget staying in the red for much longer.

“We got into trouble last time a full income tax package was passed in advance. The GFC meant our Budget was in the red for a very long time and our essential services suffered as a result,” said Dr Goldie.

“[The tax package] will carve out a gulf between the haves and have-nots in Australia, between the minority of people who benefit and the majority who lose benefits and essential services.”

Are you a fan of the Government’s tax package? What do you think could have been done instead? Do you worry that you will either have to pay more for, or miss out entirely on, essential services?

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    COMMENTS

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    22nd Jun 2018
    10:37am
    Dr Goldie makes some valid points but why can't Australia do both - that is have tax cuts and look at ways to improve essential services. I could not care less what the Australian Institute says as it is full of ex greens who would have us back in caves if there policies were ever implemented.
    My bigger concern at the moment is the cost of energy and soon to have imposts on agriculture and transport. The NEG will not save us money - our energy policies today are based on 3 tenets - emissions targets, reliability and cost - unfortunately cost comes third so we all pay more than we need to and businesses are less competitive - why would say an aluminium smelter remain in Australia when its energy costs are half in USA now - friends of mine in USA are paying 58% less than me for gas and electricity.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:05am
    So you think we can eat our cake and have it too? Not sure how that could be accomplished, bob. Lots of pensioners would love to know the secret, I'm sure.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:40am
    Easy just use less electricity and gas and it wont cost as much.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:46am
    Labor has a 50% renewables target. God help us.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:00pm
    Renewables are the problem why our electricity costs are so high. Did you know the carbon footprint of construction a wind turbine will never be recovered by the life time of that wind turbine. Solar panels are not much better.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:31pm
    Privatisation of the network is the root cause of high costs. always was, always will be.

    Like any other business, renewables will cost more in the start-up phase, but then should begin to even out. The main concern is who has control over its implementation and operation, and whether or not they are the kind of sensible business managers who work out a profit line over the long term, or are just the usual smash and grab merchants we suffer these days - all intent on getting rich in one day.

    One reason the old public system worked well was because of the lack of need for appointed public servants to strike it rich, thus permitting them to look at the long term rather than the short term grab.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:35pm
    Trebor how do you explain why my power bills have been decreasing even since electricity was privatised? Only explanation I can give is renewables.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:34pm
    The short answer to your question Bob is 'Budget Repair'. You know. That issue that was the end of the world when Hockey and Abbott has this issue run nightly on the news when Labor was in.

    $210 billion in 2010. Now $510 billion under this government. Never a mention any more.

    How about we ALL forgo tax cuts and PAY DOWN THE $150 BILLION OFF THE NATIONAL TAB???? Come on trolls..... Why not?????? Thought so. Yeah, pink batts and school halls????
    Alexii
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:11pm
    We could have tax cuts and increases to age pension and even age pension for everyone with no means test, if and that's a big IF the governments would ensure that big mining companies paid a decent royalty on all the minerals, oil, coal, and gas they extract and that they, along with all other big businesses actually paid tax on their income. Australia should be thriving in the same way as the middle eastern countries who ensure they are paid for their oil reserves. Oh yes, they could also get rid of the many tax perks and perks the very rich have.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:29pm
    Make up your mind OG, in one comment above you say the reason your electricity prices are rising is because of renewables, and then in another comment you say, since privatisation, your energy bills have been decreasing because of renewables, you can't have it both ways.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:30am
    OG is probably smart enough to be offsetting rises in elscicity prices by investing in renewables himself. So yes he can have it both ways. I know people invested in oil companies fill their cars up with a smile on their face every time the price of fuel increases as they know they are making more from their oil investments than the extra they pay at the pump. 10 to 1 OG has invested in oil companies too.
    Sceptic
    23rd Jun 2018
    1:46pm
    Yes Mick, and who voted down the Abbott savings in the Senate? ALP, Greens and your precious independents. If the Government of the day is prevented from implementing savings programmes by those who were not elected by the people to govern, whichever party is in power, then do not blame the Government.
    floss
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:38am
    The big end of town pay very little or no tax so how does a tax reduction effect them.Low earners save roughly ten dollars and those on higher incomes save one hundred and thirty dollars per week how is that fair.So the gap gets bigger.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:17am
    If that is the case then why concern yourself about it. Just be thankful for what you get and stop whinging about what others get.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:07pm
    Typically rude reply from OG who hasn't got a clue how the other half live, no compassion or understanding of othe people's lives, just ignore his comments floss.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:47pm
    I certainly know a whinger when I see them and yes I have no time for whingers.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:15pm
    HAHA Floss - you put your foot in it and OG called you out
    Because of the tax cuts I will most likely be paying more tax next year
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:16pm
    Agree Raphael I too will pay more tax too as I will make more money in a more buoyant economy.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:33pm
    Raise taxes on the higher paid and send the cleaners through business..... the only ones that will come up squeaky clean are the neighbourhood businesses that rely on their till intake, which is all recorded.
    Triss
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:50pm
    How can you even think of calling Floss a whinger, OG? Read some of your own back posts and see how many times you’ve whinged in them.
    Hasbeen
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:53pm
    What a joke.

    People who pay no tax whinging that they won't benefit from a tax cut.

    Incidentally for the whingers, the figures I saw recently showed that the top 10% of tax payers pay over 50 % of the total tax. At the other end, the bottom 50% of tax payers receive more in welfare handouts than they pay in tax, so no net tax.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:02pm
    That shows clearly that the wage/income slope is too steeply slanted, Hasbeen - give the peasants more, tax them more, and they'll be off social security....

    Sounds good...
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:37pm
    Floss - never mind the trolls earning their living on this website. These people are the trash of society. Let them run their class warfare agenda. Their bosses will be unemployed after the next election and I can but hope that Shorten brings in the Federal ICAC to go through the Liberal Party and jail any who are found to be acting in violation of the rules.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:28pm
    OG and Raphael you both need a new accountant if you think you will have to pay more tax.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:48pm
    Misty we will have to pay more tax simply because we will make a lot more money for which no accountant can fix or do we want to fix. If we pay a lot of tax we are making a lot of money.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:33pm
    You are full of contradictions OG, how many times on YLC'S TOPICS have you said you manage your money so you pay little tax, what has changed?, have the ATO caught up with you?.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jun 2018
    5:21pm
    Has been, the top 10% of earners DO NOT pay over 50% of total tax. That's a privileged party lie! The majority of tax collected is indirect and most of that comes from lower wage earners. In any case, it's irrelevant. The fact is that progressive tax is an essential in a healthy society, The top 10% of taxpayers SHOUILD pay more than 50% of tax. They earn more than 50% of the total income earned in the country.
    Greg
    23rd Jun 2018
    11:32pm
    OG is just full of crap, best thing to do is just ignore any comments made by him.
    *Loloften*
    27th Jun 2018
    12:03am
    So true FLOSS....I have a very wealthy friend who told me many yrs ago & I quote "one is not truly wealthy 'til they pay no tax, apart from from a few small GST unclaimables." Sick of hearing that OAPs pay no tax - they do, thx to ex-PM Howard, as does the income tax avoider above who now pays not a single cent of income tax - all deductable.
    Charlie
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:59am
    I think we are in for another round of right wing greed, while the left wing are still off with the fairies governing refugees, homosexuals and Aboriginals.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:07am
    Well put Charlie. The ALP has come off the rails since Chiefley while the Right stays the same. This gender-bender nonsense gets to me.
    Hairy
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:07am
    Spot on charlie
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:37pm
    Agreed - the sooner Labor divests itself of these vapid 'issues' such as women's rights and gay rights and everyone's rights but yours and mine - they might become a viable force in politics again.

    Until then they will remain just the only alternative to a bunch of pirates and rapists of the nation and its people.
    THE FORGOTTEN
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:03pm
    Well put Charlie and TREBOR.
    These are the thoughts of the SILENT MAJORITY, who for too long have been ignored by all Gov'ts who only listen to the SCREAMING MINORITIES (the squeaky wheel gets the grease.) I also have been wanting to voice my opinion on the 1% ers (ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS,ABOS AND HOMOS),who now have the ear of all the Pollies, purely for the votes and the benefits to both.I was brought up in the 50's when Australia WAS a democracy,but now I am threatened with prison if I say what I believe (back in those days I was lucky to get 1/- a month pocket money for working on our farm,but my sister and I used to buy toys for the local 100% aboriginal kids).In that period we had massive immigration,but they went to work and lived amongst the general population.I am now proud to be called a rascist or homophobe.The Homos of today yell about their sex preferences and are pushing it down our throats (including vulnerable kids). I had a homosexual relative in the 70's/80'S and the whole family and friends knew,but he was treated more as a celebrity.He was one of the first to die from AIDS. We have tens of thousands of Australians homeless and living in cars with their kids,while the ILLEGALS and Cadbury Abos are given priority to housing. I am amazed to see the massive houses ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS have, when interviewed on TV. I don't see any of them living on the streets.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:43pm
    Yes Charlie. Happening as you write. Australians who believe the lies will get what they deserve and you'd think after Abbott that would be the end for a corrupt government. Amazing what a bit of a media propaganda can do to the mentally challenged though.
    Kathleen
    24th Jun 2018
    9:40pm
    I had hoped people would call you out on this Charlie but instead they seem to be agreeing with you. If you were one of these minorities you may feel less than the privileged person that you and others describe. Tolerance and empathy seem to be lacking in your comments. Aborigines, LGBTI people, refugees are human beings just like you are and deserve respect. You have lumped them all into one basket as well and they are as individual as everyone else in society. Many are successful just like the rest of the population. Some have qualifications and are found in every part of the structure of society, in parliament, in business, in schools and in hospitals.
    Kathleen
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:00am
    I watched the process as it happened in the Senate. I thought I was watching a dictatoeship not a democracy in action. The debate was shut down. Apparently, it was even worse the day before as confusion allowed some to allow the second level to progress and be passed as discussion was curtailed and the voting forced earlier than needed. Pauline Hanson who boasts that she represents the battler sided with LNP as did Derryn Hinch and the usual ones like Bernadi.
    The poorest worker will get little help and their pay will also be affected on 1/7/18 with reduction of weekend loading. The worker at the lowest end of the pay scales was not the centre piece of this tax law. They are the ones who spend as well not the top end who will have more to save and invest.
    Listening to the actual experts the tax system needs an overhaul but this did not achieve that. The whole system needs to be addressed not just earnings.
    Petrol is too dear for a start. Reducing excise would make everything cheaper and stimulate the economy. Politicians may not be the ones to address all the interacting elements that are required to make Australia the lucky country it could be.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:40pm
    Lesser paid workers sustain the economy more than the fat cats. Ten families on $50k buy ten microwaves... one family on $500k or $1m or $2m buys one microwave.... and spends the rest on deadstock like investments that pay no tax or on offshore purchases and holidays etc.

    The actual comparative contribution to economic activity HERE is much larger from the lowest paid - which is why chopping away at their meagre incomes is courting economic disaster.

    Trickle up has been explained before by some here.... it is the reality.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:41pm
    I've long said the tax system need a total overhaul.... chop many strands and consolidate into a few simple ones and close the loop-holes.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:45pm
    This government is a dictatorship in the forming. So many things happening point to that. God help the idiots who vote for it if their votes push it back into office.
    Having said that I recall what they did to Whitlam and it is not past this lot to use the army to get its way.
    Alexii
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:17pm
    It always amazes me, Mick, when I hear ordinary, relatively lowly paid workers and pensioners say they think the coalition government is doing a good job. It seems crazy that they would vote for a party that obviously has no interest in them and favours the rich and big business.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:08am
    The so called tax cuts is one gigantic con. The top end of town will pocket most of them and much money will head straight to the USA because most multinationals are US owned. BAD FOR AUSTRALIA.
    These so called tax cuts for average citizens are little more than a vote gathering exercise and people will not look at WHO is getting the lion's share. Of course the usual trolls posting government propaganda on this website will talk it up but the reality is it will cost us all and retirees will get zip.
    We all deserve what we get so think carefully before you sell out your children. The tax cuts are not genuine...and neither is the current government. Luckily it will not be in office much longer.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:44am
    Geez Mick, your comments come as a genuine surprise - not! So you reckon Bill is on the money to oppose tax cuts, eh Mick? When are people like you going to wake up to the fact that it is YOUR money? Governments of whatever persuasion don't have any money of their own - only what they take from you and me. My philosophy is that I would prefer how and where to spend MY money - not let some faceless bureaucrat/government lackey determine where and to whom my hard earned will be directed. You Mick, on the other hand, appear not to have the same self confidence and belief that you can do the same - and prefer others to make the decisions for you. One day you might harden up, princess!
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:44am
    I disagree MICK. This government has shown a real empathy with working battlers. These working families are struggling to pay the increasing costs, particularly the power bills. Labor wants to tax more and increase costs. Labor is destroying the working families' aspirations.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:48am
    You can't have it both ways MICK, you have posted in the past that multinationals pay no tax. There is no reduction from zero is there?
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:31pm
    Here come the government trolls......
    I agree with giving tax cuts to those who drive our economy. Those who have to spend 100% to survive. Those who have been driven into poverty since the GFC. That does not include the top end of town.
    I read yesterday that wage increases during the past 7 years were 30% in the well to do suburbs and only 16% for the rest of the nation. That is a starter.
    You guys need to go and see your employers and tell him to get out of his offshore tax haven and bring his money back to Australia.

    OM - for the record please don't play your normal psychology games with me. You are fully aware that multinational are defrauding our tax system and that more and more are avoiding it altogether. Of course some are not. Probably those who are not currently ripping money out of our country.
    I do not appreciate your deceit and it does not become you.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:53pm
    MICK, you wanna know where the highest median household income is. ACT. And we know who lives there, so lets not pretend.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:42pm
    Adrianus - I nearly fell out of my chair there.... empathy from this lot? Savage industrial war, class war, attack son low incomes.... empathy there... like Dr Mengele....
    Sundays
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:32pm
    Adriaus Public Servants live in the ACT. They all vote Labor, but you knew this didn’t you
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:57pm
    Not psychological games MICK, just my usual search for truth, justice and the Australian way. Cheers.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:50pm
    A couple of days ago I read a report which said that the top end of society, the ones doing it so tough, have improved their pay by 30% since 2011 whilst average workers have improved theirs by only 16%.
    Please do not play the violin for the 'much needed tax relief' at the top. IT IS PURE UNABATED GREED at a time we have DEBT. Remember that word trolls...DEBT. Abbott and Hockey DEBT.
    For the record Labor left with $211 billion debt and this government has chalked it up to $551 billion.

    Please comment government trolls!

    OM - your usual is DEMANDING proof when you offer none and do not want to go and verify the comments or otherwise. Yeah right!
    Kathleen
    22nd Jun 2018
    9:04pm
    Adrianus, you are being duped. LNP does not side with the lowest paid workers. You are listening to the propaganda from our present government. They could have raised the threshold from $19,000 or addressed directly the pay of the lowest paid workers. They did not do that. People supporting our present government make me think of Trump’s rally yesterday wherein the more grotesque his statements were the more they cheered him on.
    The government is not being creative or listening to people who have the expertise to address tax overhaul. They simply award money to the top end even when they cannot afford to do so. It does not stimulate the economy like giving extra money to people who would spend it.
    As for the cost of electricity, the sun shines and makes power, how about we all tap into that and add the means to store it as well.
    Seems the LNP have masters they have to answer to and it is not the public.

    22nd Jun 2018
    11:10am
    Oh so clever! They've done it again. Legislate for tax cuts well in the future so that if Labor wins the election they can blame Labor for the deficit the LNP's tax cuts created. Just like they did last time around!

    This disgusting mob has to go!

    Of course, MT has the answer to the battler's dilemma. Just get a better job! I mean, we don't need aged care workers, do we? Well, not if the LNP has its way, because anyone who can't afford self-funded retirement and private care will die on the job! Maybe we are all supposed to become politicians? MT claims any problems the battler has are the fault of the battler for not getting a better job - but he doesn't seem to have many answers as to how they do that when jobs are scarce. Nor can he tell us who does the low-paid jobs when all the battlers move up the ladder. All he seems capable of is blowing the budget with fat handouts to his rich mates and screaming that the national debt is somehow the fault of aged pensioners.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:25am
    OGR the OAP is welfare and is only meant to provide the basics of life. If you want more then you have to save for it yourself. If you are not prepared to do so then it's on your fault that your have a miserable old age no one else'

    If you want better tax cuts then simply get a better job. MT is exactly right on this.

    So you wish to get rid of them and have your franking credits not returned by the ATO? It doesn't matter who is in power as I will just adjust my affairs to suit.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:47am
    A typical, idiotic, childish and pathetic post OGR! Haven't you got something better to do? I would tear your post apart statement by statement, but it would be a waste of my time - there is no hope for someone as fixated as you OGR.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:13pm
    Why does anyone even bother to read OG'S COMMENTS HE HAS NO REGARD FOR ANYONE OTHER THEN HIMSELF.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:38pm
    And you should talk Big Al. Clearly you are here to do what trolls always seek to do: provide little real facts and talk BS whilst pushing the worst rich man's government in living history. Disgraceful.

    OGR - I agree with your political assessment. Shorten will kill this Bill when he wins the election.
    The rest of your post also has merit although modelling comes with a fair bit of risk. I wouldn't worry about low paid workers being there in the future. Under the current government we will turn into a state of the US and workers will end up getting food stamps and never own a home. The intention of this government is to turn workers into dirt poor slaves. It began with the Hospitality Workers, then retirees and if this lot were to get in again the cancer would be introduced into one profession after the other. At the same time the rich would be left alone and more and more money would be thrown at them. THAT IS THE GAME.
    Vote for anybody other than coalition!
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:50pm
    Shorten wont win the next election so this bill is safe for another term.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:10pm
    In your dreams OG.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:15pm
    Mick, no problem about you labelling me a 'Troll' but I wish the #@** I knew what it means?? In the inimitable words of everyone's favourite red head - please explain???
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:18pm
    Big Al a troll is anyone who doesn't agree with Mick and his warped ideology.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:46pm
    A troll is someone who interrupts and disrupts a discussion by using personal jibes and nonsense hostile arguments and a few other things.

    "Troll
    One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
    by Alien Entity September 22, 2002"

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

    We would all better served leaving the personal jibes out... such jibes reflect more on the user than on the abused.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:53pm
    Come on Big Al and a few others.... You are posting government propaganda. The posts NEVER address the real facts and mostly seek to trivialise the facts which put the current government in the limelight.
    I suppose one day this lot will manage to silence the ABC and perhaps individuals as well. Oh yes, it has already tried on both. The day it happens you can take on a new title: Herr Al. If the hat fits wear it!
    Oars
    25th Jun 2018
    3:41pm
    Well here we go agin. The armchair geniuses. ( Plural). If someone took into account all the comments that were tabled here- and they let each comment have equal weight- we would most likely end up with a total list of unsupported heresay- or rubbish. At our age ( if you are over 65 yrs) you should have made up your mind by now that pollies are the twits who like talking, could never get a job in the real world- and yet we try to analyze the recent tax projections from a base of respect and trustworthiness. Please. We are all wasting our time with such biased opinions.Better to take our dogs for a walk, and buy your worse enemy a beer. Problem- I have no enemies- just dags who bother arguing with me and themselves.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:12am
    “We got into trouble last time a full income tax package was passed in advance. The GFC meant our Budget was in the red for a very long time and our essential services suffered as a result,” said Dr Goldie.

    The landscape looked much different when Labor/Greens/Unions got in, on the back of Kevin Rudd's popularity. Australia was the worlds most economically sound economy. The government at the time wanted to increase taxes, but was sending cheques to everyone. Once Julia Gillard stabbed Rudd in the back our PM was offering advice to all other countries on how to run their economy, such was the exemplary position we found ourselves in. According to Wayne Swan we had a pipeline of investment and new taxes were levied on mining and carbon. Labor/Greens/Unions will tax anything they can, heck they wanted to tax cows for farting. They still do. We have 100 million livestock . Under the ALP environment policy that number needs to be reduced by 30%. My question is , how will they achieve this?
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:48pm
    A sound economy from which some of the underpinnings had been removed by theft sale.... including the $130Bn that went to The Caymans to guarantee politician retirement funds.... and not one vote said NAY...

    Then there was the sale of all the revenue securing utilities.... leading to massive cost rises to the consumer and no responsibility on the part of government for malfeasance, even though the government remains the major shareholder.

    Grand Theft Canberra it's called.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:49pm
    Oh - the reality of that privatisation - given that government is a 'shareholder' in something it never owned - was a de facto rise in taxes to the consumer to accompany GST on those utilities.

    Grand Theft Canberra indeed.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:56pm
    "Our budget was in the red for a very very long time"?

    Intentional misleading comment.

    Labor left with a debt around $209 billion.
    Coalition has run up debt to $511 billion.

    Please explain right wing troll?????
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:07pm
    And much of the debt blamed on Labor was caused by the LNP legislating benefits for the wealthy just before leaving office. Labor was stuck with unaffordable commitments. Just like they will be if they win the next election - stuck with unaffordable tax cuts legislated by LNP and then blamed for the harm those cuts cause. The LNP and its supporters are great at the blame game.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:53pm
    Ha ah OGR the LNP is only just getting on to of the mess Labor left for them to sort out. They certainly have done an excellent job sorting it all out too.

    22nd Jun 2018
    11:14am
    I know this is a pensioner forum but lets face it - looking back I would have been grateful for any tax cut while I was working. When working an extra day I lost 48% of that day's pay in income tax. The incentive was totally lost to do better.
    Even today to work and save for a better old age if do not get a better life style than a person on the full age pension is stupid. We should encourage our young people to get up and have a go, not hitting them on the head with extra taxes.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:53pm
    I agree some of the things we had to do get around that 48% tax rate were astonishing. It will be so good to have a flat rate for most of the workers instead. Thank goodness one will not have to worry about doing extra overtime at the end of the financial year and cutting deals with their employer instead.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:04pm
    I can remember the rate being 60% in the mid 1980's. Its good to see the top marginal rate tracking closer to the company rate which takes away the incentive to incorporate.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:21pm
    32% seems like a dream from those tax rates of yester year.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:52pm
    Why? Anyone having that much taxable income was only paying 48% on the super-profit, not on the whole lot... I see no reason for any argument there....

    Of course they could all take a lower income and pay a single rate of tax... try to convince some fat cat public servant that taking a salary cut will equalise the same net income if a lower tax rate was implemented.... they would never forsake their snobbery by taking that and would scream to high heaven.

    I did figures on that once....
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:54pm
    Yes - I remember that super-profit Gillard tax on resources.... look at the flak she took over that... it was going to destroy the economy ad investment etc.... look at the result now without it - a destitute economy and even more destitute government coffers.

    No valid reason for anyone who is benefiting mightily to not pay tax fully and be proud of it... they gain the benefits, they pay their way the same as everyone else.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:03pm
    That resource tax was in name only as it didn't raise hardy any revenue. Same with the carbon tax.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:07pm
    Now you've got it, OG - that tax on super-profits never bit and never did one thing to the economy - either way.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:31pm
    No all it was was a way for Gillard to big note herself.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:58pm
    Jim - current tax rates are way lower than they used to be. I remember the top rate of 60 cents in the dollars. Still the rich cry 'too much tax'.
    If you give people more tax relief they will live a higher lifestyle. A lot of fun but you build an EXPECTATION of a lifestyle and they will never realise money does not grow on trees.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:10pm
    Our society was healthier and people - INCLUDING THE WELL OFF - were much, much happier when tax rates were higher. Back then, most well off understood that progressive taxation was good for society. But then greed took over!
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:51pm
    OGR I am the happiest and the wealthiest that I have even been with most of that wealth created after I retired. It is amazing what one can do when time is their own to do with what they wish.
    Kathleen
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:27pm
    I have used this example before to try to put things into perspective. The temporary extra tax paid by the high income people had little effect on their lifestyle illustrated by this example. A young CEO on a very high income paid an extra $6000 per year at that time and it was stated by him that that was the family’s annual holiday amount. However, that same year the family went to Paris, which demonstrates the extra tax paid did not hurt the family but by paying it the economy would have benefited.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:27pm
    Not our economy if they went to Paris though Kathleen, only the French would benifit then.
    Rae
    24th Jun 2018
    8:25am
    MICK money is created into existence so we don't need trees for it to grow on just debt.

    Tax cuts is one way of trying for a bit of inflation to dissolve the debt problem away. It is often used by Governments to ease debt burdens.

    The LNP believe the top create the jobs and businesses etc and they are right there.

    Extra cashflow will make opportunities for people to do something to make some money and create economic improvements.

    There should be no effect on service provision.

    We just need to make sure the CPI measures inflation accurately because it isn't a great measure at the moment. The ABS needs a real shaking up. How a Government functions with such carelessly constructed data is a miracle in itself.
    Kathleen
    24th Jun 2018
    12:03pm
    Misty, our holiday is visiting the grandkids in Canberra then driving back along the coast to home. Paris would be wonderful but France is not so safe now anyway. I believe in spending our holiday money in Australia especially the little towns that benefit so much by a few visitors. You can do both if you have the money for sure.
    People on high incomes have choices and maybe do both but the tax benefits should go to the lowest paid people. MC on Insiders today used the example of a worker on $30000 to compare tax and how the person on $200000 paid so much tax and the lowest paid worker was able to pay so little. Defies belief that anyone cannot see how callous that is. I think we need to have a walk in someone else’s shoes day in Australia where the CEO type person does elderly care or cleaning to try to gain some understanding and empathy and be paid and live like even for a day.
    Seenitall
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:17am
    Keep calm, sit back and wait. Give them enough rope and this greedy, cynical, elitist government will hang itself at the next federal election.
    ph
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:31am
    We can hope, assuming the populace is smarter than they are in the USA.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:40pm
    Good call but I suspect they are the same. If this government gets back in then it's game over for all except the wealthy and the party hanger oners....including the paid trolls on this website..
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:54pm
    I suspect the Shorten will be the one to hang himself on this issue alone. The government will get votes form low income workers and also from higher income workers due to Shorten's short sightedness.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:13pm
    Dream on OG get votes for $5.00 a week, I don't think so, shows how out og touch you and the govt are on this issue.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:35pm
    Well Mick, Seenitall and all you other leftie whackos...here is a challenge! Come back onto this site after 28th July (Super Saturday), and after the voters in five seats have had their say. Lets see what they think - 5 Lower House seats out of 150 is 3% if my maths is still up to it - so statistically very relevant. I don't think you whackos will have a lot to smile about following Super Saturday - and the voters in those seats will have cast their judgment based on this taxation bill, to a large degree. I expect Short-on ideas, integrity, and honesty to be in a fair bit of political trouble by ....oh about 29th July!
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:54pm
    Big Al it was a good move to have those bi-elections after the tax cuts come in as well. I'd like to see Labor lose a couple of those seats.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:03pm
    The only wackos on this website are you Big Al and your offer fellow workers.
    Of course the lemmings will vote to cut their own throats. Throw them a couple of hundren dollars extra a year and many may vote coalition. After that the knife comes out and the real slaughter begins. A well worn path by your employer.

    Good post Seeitall. You are on the money. The above trolls are simply employed to post here so do not mind their vile spew. They will get their just desserts in the next life.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:43pm
    Big Al and you think M Turnbulls-it is going to fare better?, well lets wait and see.
    Kathleen
    24th Jun 2018
    12:12pm
    Big Al, it depends on the voter and who they align with. A cleaner might think a banker is out of touch and callous whereas a wealthy person will be thinking 7 years ahead and rubbing their hands together.
    However, no one can predict seven years ahead into the future. LNP are electioneering and this is a promise no one may be able to keep.
    It is a play for votes. Both sides are electioneering now.
    Company taxes are up for discussion and voting on this week so that will play into it too. Many companies pay no tax. They do not even pay GST, that is refunded to them. Some are well known and we all pay them money.
    People think about their back pocket and whether they will get more money or be worse off.
    Grateful
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:23am
    This is just an obvious trick by a desperate government such as Howard's last throw of the dice with those negative gearing and capital gains tax reductions. And look where that got us, Howard, personally, got kicked right out and so did his government and those laws destroyed housing for families when houses went from being family homes and became very lucrative, heavily government subsidized, investment commodities.
    And Turnbull talked, screamed, about aspirations, when he is doing absolutely nothing to rectify that blatantly obvious disaster which destroyed the aspirations of first home buyers.
    We know where his "aspirations" are.
    I couldn't believe what I heard from a member of the Senate cross benches when he said that they had knocked back the third stage of the proposed tax cuts the day before and sent it back to the House of Reps because it was IMPRUDENT, but, would support it if it came back to the Senate because Labor would rescind it when they got elected???
    Are they for real?
    And Hanson did a double back flip and continued to show her ignorance. And WE are paying her big dollars!!!
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:56pm
    Hanson always does a double back-flip and ends up voting with the big end of town - out of which she seems to have done remarkably well so far.

    I have zero faith in her, because she constantly talks the talk without the walk.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:05pm
    It is grateful. They think throwing the hard up a few very small bucks and talking it up in their media will get them back into office to rape the nation for a further term. It won't and Labor will rightly repeal the tax cuts for the wealthy whilst not touching those for average Australians. A sound policy.
    *Loloften*
    27th Jun 2018
    12:56am
    Grateful..."Turnbutt' has stooped so low in desparation re politicising his "gift" to us all, benevolence (copying Trump) stating that will donate his $500,000 tax-payer funded salary to charity. Farcical...true Philanthropists don't publicise their donations. Our PM must have needed yet another income tax deduction/avoidance & thought we were all stupid enough to recognise his desparate ploy. I've been a swinging voter for decades - won't be swinging to LNP, disgusted @ their ignorance towards approx 20% of our population struggling on OAPs + approx 30% of battlers on low incomes (especially families who can't afford to pay childcare fees) which won't be "fixed" by their meagre publicised tax deductions schewed towards the wealthy.
    ph
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:23am
    Unbelievable. It seems my belief that Australians were smarter than this was misplaced. Next comes an increase in the GST, privatising Medicare, more people pushed off a pension, and suspect increasing tax on Superannuation. I am so angry, so unbelievably angry.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:29am
    The less people on welfare the better as people should only get welfare if they cant support themselves with basics of life.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:37am
    I can understand you being acidic ph. If you think you will miss out on essential services but there is no evidence that this will happen?
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:17pm
    The blue tie brigade are out in full force today aren't they but outnumbered here by people who live in the real world.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:41pm
    Good post ph. On the money. Ignore the posts from OG and Adrianus. These people are paid to write this stuff.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:10pm
    LOL!! If I was paying me to write this stuff I would starve.
    Rae
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:30pm
    No MICK they are a perfect example of how Conservatives think and of educational value. This is exactly how the LNP think. Exactly.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:57pm
    Define clearly what you perceive to be welfare, OG - you haven't yet, though I know it's a hard question...

    We'll try starting from basics with you..... bring you along slowly...
    KSS
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:45pm
    Wow Trevor. It took you just 11minutes to break your own plea for people to play nice and stop the personal jibes!
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:06pm
    Welfare is anything paid out by Centrelink.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:10pm
    Incorrect - try again. Unemployment Benefits and Pensions come from a fund, called Social Security, derived over years of tax contribution to the common good, a fund that was hijacked into consolidated revenue so as to afford to essentially corrupt and thieving politicians the 'right' to label it something it never was and use it as a political football.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:58pm
    I'm not about to pretend it is anything but what it is. WELFARE.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:08pm
    ph - people with average or better intelligence can see through the layers of lies from the current bad bad government. Of course some of our countrymen are brain dead people who will vote for their own demise. God help 'em. Hopefully not even the employed posters sent to all media outlets can change the demolition of a government crying for its dictatorship.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:27am
    It is good to see the worker not those on welfare getting a bigger slice of the tax pie for a change. Those on welfare already have more than enough of the tax pie already but it wouldn't matter how much they got it it would never be enough for them.
    ph
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:33am
    so what exactly is the average worker getting? $10 a week.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:39am
    That's $500 a year which is nothing to be sneezed at. I might just get some more of my franking credits back too.
    ph
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:23pm
    I'm not a religious person but this seems to fit;
    Isaiah 6:9-10
    : : : And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see indeed, but perceive not.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:42pm
    Good quote but OG knows full well what he is posting. Not ignorance. Cash for comment. It should be illegal.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:12pm
    Abolish franked credits and everyone pays their own tax - no more arguments and no more rorting and special payouts.

    A quick look at the idea of a company paying tax in advance for shareholders raises eyebrows over why they would even bother with the paperwork. The ONLY merit of it is that if the company does a runner that prepaid tax is held by the ATO, but given all the arguments and strife over it, it should simply be laid to rest and all pay their own taxes and take their own chances on their investments.

    You play that pokie - you take the losses with the gains. Sorry 'bout that....
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:18pm
    Franked dividends are a form of welfare to shareholders to ensure their tax is covered in the event of a company failing.... and with all our modern smash and grab merchant 'business' people and the Gordon Geckos, many crash through malfeasance and deliberate asset stripping and cash shifting.... nothing has changed since the salad days of Bondie and Skasey.. the same rorts continue on and on.... shift 'fees' to family companies and family members so the company goes belly up with nothing in the till...skim the cream from the cash from the banks to run your Rolls and furnish your lavish home... not pay your creditors/tradies etc who did work for you (a WOG special in the building trades) ... splash out on fancy holiday homes and trips etc, fleet of personal cars..... invest in some hedge funds that equally fail ... then wonder why the company becomes insolvent.

    Most business people couldn't run a pie wagon without all the massive government props handed to them, including welfare to shareholders to ensure they don't lose in a gambling game.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:01pm
    Trebor get it right. Government pays welfare companies pay tax.

    Franking credits are tax paid on income the same as you pay when you have a job. Pay too much tax and you get a refund.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:13pm
    TREBOR - OG has got this one right but you may well be right too. If I employ a tradie to do some work and the tradie employs another tradie to do some other work then each contractor earns an income and each pays his tax. The second contractor cannot carry a tax credit forward as occurs with dividend imputation credits.
    We get some of our income through the dividend imputation lurk and would be sad to see it go but it would save a lot of money.
    Tax cuts for the wealthy keeps coming back to the same thing: THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO NEED OF IT. IT IS UNABATED GREED.
    floss
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:47am
    O.G.if every one in your party has the same stupid attitude as you god help this country.You turn people against the Libs.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:03pm
    I could not care what people thinks about the Liberals or Labor as I will just adjust my affairs to suit who ever is in power. Many others like me will do the same and if the climate doesn't suit as we can afford to not play the game. This does not help the economy at all.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:43pm
    When you read enough of the stuff OG and a few of the other trolls post you get to realise they are sling a whole pile of BS meant to demonise Labor and unions and get their man back into office. I think you are seeing this for what it is. Well done.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:58pm
    Mick you are the one who wants to jump out of the frying pan and put Labor into power at the detriment of the country not me. Seems to me you have a very short term memory after what the likes of Rudd and Gillard did to this nation. I for one certainly don't want a worse case of bad management for my country.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:16pm
    I wsould like to see the mess the coalition would have got us into during the GFC OG at least Labor got us through those tough days.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:24pm
    Misty they certainly wouldn't have got us in the mess Labor did that I can tell you. We are still suffering from Labor's blunder during the GFC even today.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:59pm
    That's his aim - he's a Labor plant.... an agent provocateur.... a shill..... for the Opposition.......
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:16pm
    OG - you are a blatant coalition troll mate!
    I wouldn't care who people vote for as long as the current dictatorship is sent packing and remains in the political wilderness for some time.
    You and the other employees may want a dictatorship but I want a democracy, something Turnbull Inc. is working hard to take away from Australians who were never asked if that is ok.
    floss
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:50am
    Spot on Mick.
    ph
    22nd Jun 2018
    11:51am
    It was Mahatma Ghandi who said “A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”
    In the longer term this tax cut will prove we are not a great nation.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:45pm
    What you may see in time is that the current government is a part of a wider team. They are the legislative arm of the rich suppressing our nation and nations all around the planet. More money for the rich is always their modus operandi. It is one big club which most people fail to see.

    22nd Jun 2018
    11:52am
    So, with her crystal ball, Goldie can predict a shortfall in spending on essential services. This is another beat up based on 3/4 of 5/8 of bugger all.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:02pm
    “Promising huge tax cuts six years in advance is foolhardy. Are we fortune tellers? No, and none of us know what will happen to the economy and the budget that far ahead.”
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:08pm
    I'd like to see more user pay for public services. Bulk billing by doctors is wrong as it allows for too many people seeking medical treatment that they don't need. One doctor told me he has a day set aside just for people who want a yarn.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:20pm
    Goldie must be using the same Crystal Ball as the Coaltion then as they seem to think they know what the economy will be like 7 years in the future, or never never land should I say.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:46pm
    OM, Adrianus and OG. The coalition tag team in action. So obvious!
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:19pm
    Add Big Al and Old Man to that team also Mick.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:01pm
    We can always borrow to prop up essential services... mind you the Guv'nah has divested self of many such - power, gas, roads, airports, water ... soon it will be air .. so seeing as they no longer 'foot the bill' for these profitable ventures that their cronies rushed to 'buy' .... how come they need to borrow endlessly and at such a high level and rising?
    Rae
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:17am
    That is a good question TREBOR. Maybe a bit of Nationalisation of failing Private Providers of essential services is needed.

    The whole idea the private is better has been seen as a failure.

    Private companies are far less efficient that public ones, cost more to run and employ less people. They also generate no income for the public and np profits on which taxes can be raised.

    Of all the Conservative ideological beliefs this one s the biggest fail.

    Private companies can't even build their own shit and need public money to create anything in the way of big infrastructure like roads and airports and power grids.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:42am
    Yes Rae and then they try to avoid paying tax on top of everything else.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:03pm
    Pauline Hanson has a lot to answer, for allowing these tax cuts to pass through but then of course she gets a $7,000.00 tax, cut so of course she would wouldn't she, so much for supporting Aussie battlers.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:05pm
    How do you know she will still be there in seven years time? So may never get those tax cuts at all if she decides to quit parliament and become a self funded retiree.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:22pm
    I sincerely hope she won't be, people are waking up to what she does not stand for and that is Aussie batllers.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:22pm
    I don't think she will either but it will be her choice not that she gets booted out.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:03pm
    Yes - the bribe was right there for sitting members..... I don't think she's a deliberate liar - she simply doesn't know the difference between truth and untruth.
    Sundays
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:44pm
    Pauline Hansen will not be a self funded retiree. She will receive a parliamentary pension of 6 figures paid fortnightly into her bank account for the rest of her life. Politicians seem to forget that we all fund their salaries and their perks. We can also vote them in , or out
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:08pm
    Good luck to her then as she deserves it.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:19pm
    Hanson will be gone when she comes up for re-election. The price of treachery and betrayal. Clearly butter wouldn't melt in his mouth Turnbull got what he wanted: TAX CUTS. So how much will this man with assets around $150 million get out of it? No wonder he was gloating and shut down debate.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:51pm
    I don't know what deal Pauline thinks she has done with the govt, as to getting her apprenticeships, which was one of the things she wanted in return for her vote, well she hasn't got it yet, Matheuis Corman said it was under consideration so she might end up with nothing.
    GeorgeM
    24th Jun 2018
    8:18pm
    What is the surprise - it was a clever trick from this Govt as all MPs will get the maximum tax cut ($7,000+) and it was sure to pass! Showed up all the greedy, self-serving leeches in parliament in one hit!
    DC
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:21pm
    Oh well, here we go again. Its all the Libs fault, hey Mick?
    You and others complain that PH and others voted for the hugfe Tax cuts they get eventually. Where is Labor and the other ratbags (Greens).
    Anyone of their MP's rejecting their $7000 tax reduction??? If They were genuine they would.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:23pm
    Give them time and how much did millionaire MT get?, don't see him giving his to charity either do you.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:48pm
    Straight from party HQ DC. Roll out the next troll please.
    Your post is not even worth responding to. Garbage.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:04pm
    It isn't about parties per se - only about this party right now bringing in such lies...

    Everyone agrees that all politicians are worthless and selfish, though some are on probation.
    ph
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:29pm
    Malcom Turnbull has a salary $127,000 higher than the president on the USA
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:49pm
    Although Turnbull and Trump both have offshore tax shelters to avoid paying their taxes? Still waiting for Trump to release his tax return...... I wonder why not.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:16pm
    Trump's tax returns are in the same little place like Obama's birth certificate. No one has seen them.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:40pm
    MT also contributes many times his salary back to the Liberal party too.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:02pm
    The liberal party is not the government. Donating to his own party is his own choice and has no merit in discussion of government activities per se (just like travel to attend a party function is NOT government business)...
    ph
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:20pm
    Not true Cowboy
    April 2011
    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:21pm
    Prove it OG. Another Liberal Party lie. One of many. It's in your DNA!
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:53pm
    Mick add Cowboy Jim to the list too.
    Not a Bludger
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:40pm
    What a load of leftie clap trap.
    Socialist rentseekers like this pair continuously set out to find doom and gloom where none exists - all the while using extreme assumptions to support their “ sky falling in” what if scenarios.
    Why you report such rubbish and without critical comment is quite beyond me.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:52pm
    Leftie, Labor, unions, pink batts, school halls.....
    Give it a break Not a Bludger.

    Your comment is completely inaccurate because a country is OWNED by ALL OF ITS CITIZENS. Try starving those citizens and the top end will understand the obligation to not abuse and mistreat the rest of their country.
    I guess you and the wealthy will never understand that.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:57pm
    MICK, you're making no sense at all.

    94% of the workforce get a reduced level of tax and you think people are going to starve??
    What happens if the government takes more money off us?? Do we get fat??
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:01pm
    Agree it is just a case that their is no money for those on welfare so Goldie can big note herself. What a whinger she really is!
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:21pm
    Add Not a Bludger to that list Mick.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:38pm
    The greed of those on welfare astounds me.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:01pm
    Wrong again, OG - there is insufficient money for the entire gamut of government spending... ideological assaults on Aged Pension Rights and Unemployment Benefit Rights are just that - ideological and nothing more.

    The entire gamut of government expenditure needs to be reviewed by an impartial and independent body and all the NECESSARY cuts made - and that does not include bills currently due such as Social Security.

    Plenty of fat to be sliced off countless QANGOs and other 'ventures' that have NO place in government - bizarre that the same lot who whine about 'government has no place in business' also claim to run government AS a business, including 'businesses' like submarine procurement and such - all out of the public purse and at double the cost due to duplication of public service work.

    Then there is plenty of fat in a properly arranged and fully accountable taxation system.

    Simple answer to Social Security is to remove it from the hands of government and place it in a separate body with elected members, some of whom (50%?) MUST be stakeholders such as Pensioners, SFRs below a certain level, and Unemployed. The Australian National Retirement Packaging Group - aka The Trebor Scheme.

    Government may apply for loans from funds on cast iron contracts.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:23pm
    OG - thanks for the laugh of the day. Those at the top suck huge amounts of money out of the coffers whilst those on welfare get the crumbs and blame from your low life governments elected to plunder the poor and give to the rich. The more I read of your stuff the more you irk me OG. Beginning to wonder if you may be mentally disturbed?????
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:22pm
    Mick, it's well known that greed and selfishness addle the brain, and OG is about as greedy and selfish as they come, so don't expect intelligence from him!

    Welfare, OG? Welfare is good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity. Therefore, parliamentarians and senior bureaucrats get it in boat loads. CEOs and company directors and high income earners have it poured on them. Pensioners and unemployed have very little prosperity - and therefore are NOT receiving welfare.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:55pm
    Well OG if the people on welfare are greedy all I can say is that theirs can never exceed yours.
    ronloby
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:45pm
    Why does this government always help the rich and not the have-nots? I can see further down the track things may change when this government runs out of even more and more money. They will have a change of heart and hit the BIG multi-national companies and banks with a Tax that will make them shutter.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    12:55pm
    Because the rich were once have not too and the have nots need something to focus on so they wont always be have nots.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:24pm
    What rubbish you write here OG, James Packer for one was not a "have not" and neither were the Murdochs, just to name a few. Dick Smith may have been and I applaud him for what he has done for our country and himself.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:36pm
    I was a have not myself and was glad to live in a country that gave me the opportunity to do better.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:05pm
    .. and now you're a mere nobody lost in the wilderness of issues for today....
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:26pm
    Average citizens vote for them ronloby. The problem is that the media can be very convincing but they are unabated liars. Better to NOT listen to the News on commercial outlets and head to the ABC or SBS to get a better perspective. You'll just have to ignore the calls to close down the ABC and the routine 'bias' smear the right tries on to shut down honest news and debate.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:23pm
    OG, if you were ever a ''have not'' you would know what it means and you wouldn't be the self-serving arrogant prick that you are. Nor would you be so hideously selfish and greedy. And you certainly wouldn't be so lacking in empathy.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:24pm
    No doubt you also claim MT was a 'have not' - as does he, despite his $100 million inheritance. The rich just don't get it!
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:59pm
    Love that comment TREBOR and now we have it, by his own admission OG is rich, he has admitted that he also was a "have not" so based on that asumption he made above he also must be "rich".
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    9:04pm
    OGR MT did not get a $100 million inheritance. He just got a lucky break with a few shares at the right time. I guess you haven't read about Ozemail from your comments.

    I am not rich at all but simply earn more than it costs me to live. It aint that hard to achieve but most whinge instead of doing what it takes to achieve it.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jun 2018
    5:18pm
    WRONG, OG. MT got $100 million inheritance from his grandfather, before he was 21. Anyone can make money if they have money to start with. NOBODY makes money just from honest hard work.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:28pm
    Well - it stands to reason that if you're not bringing in a wage or salary, these cuts won't fall your way. On the other hand those obliged to put in a tax return may benefit a little, and of course, proportionately the high end will benefit most in dollar terms.

    I was struck by the concept, give air in Parliament by Labor's Burke, that by 2024 there would be zero income tax... first I've heard of that idea.... but it's obviously silly and more than a bit ridiculous.
    Rae
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:49pm
    Not necessarily TREBOR. The UN have been working on the problem of huge multinationals bigger than governments who pay no tax and are increasingly employing no workers as they develop robots and AI.
    How do you tax global players in a globalised world.
    The solution is simple enough. A very small transaction tax say 0.05%.

    Of course it freaks out the traders and speculators and anyone who spends lots and lots of money but for you and I it would be very little indeed.

    The thing is it would get paid every time a $ moved anywhere at all. Paid where the dollar moved from. There would be no more avoiding tax or minimising it. No more rates or levies or regos or excises. Simple.

    If it turns out to be deflationary then it can be redistributed easily enough. If inflationary it can be increased until it balances the economy out.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:14pm
    Yes - a transaction tax and a movement offshore and onshore tax of maybe 2% will cure all evils... send money out or bring it in,and you pay a 'gate fee'. It would be good to see every politician's retirement pay taxed as it comes ashore here from The Caymans.... in their case perhaps it should be viewed in accordance with income tax... simple rule - if you left it here and it paid its dues here, you get it under the existing (lack of) rules - if it comes in 'through the gate' it incurs income tax.

    How to Stop a Rort 101....

    Some 73 nations met in Paris a year or so ago to discuss how to curtail tax loss to offshore multi-nationals (etc). Never did hear their conclusions... but it seems this UN move may be one.

    As you said - more and more AI and fewer workers is a looming disaster for nations AND businesses - people without money can't buy your AI produced goods..... economy dies.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:17pm
    No thanks I don't ever want to see a transaction tax again. Last time they bought it in was a disaster. OAP won't be able to invest in term deposits as the tax will be more than the interest they will receive. It will cripple the investment markets as people will simply not move money round as they do now. If you think it is a good idea then you have rocks in your head.
    Rae
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:50pm
    In term deposits if the interest is under 0.5% then it shouldn't be there. In fact since that bail in legislation it's dangerous having deposits in the bank, bank shares or bank bonds just in case.


    Traders won't like it but those with lots of money will always move it around OG. You know that. They'll want it doing something. Or buying something they want.

    0.5% won't hurt you either unless it cramps your trades but if you are successful it shouldn't be too bad.

    What do you suggest we do? Just hand over everything to Alphabet, Microsoft, Netflix , Goldman Sacks and say we are happy they take our money and give nothing back.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:03pm
    We wont have the likes of those companies and many more in Australia if we have a transaction tax.
    MICK
    22nd Jun 2018
    5:30pm
    TREBOR - robotics is coming and at some time the world is going to have to pay a living wage. The rich will not want to pay as always but if this is not sorted out there will be blood in the streets in all countries as average citizens rebel against the greedy rich. I feel a rerun of the French Revolution approaching. Let them eat cake!
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:02pm
    A poll out this week said over 60% of young people want a socialist society, they are not happy with Capitalism.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    9:08pm
    Misty that is simply because they think the world owes them a living just because they are breathing. Poor little darlings have never wanted for anything in their lives so why stop now.
    KSS
    22nd Jun 2018
    9:49pm
    Yes Misty, but they also have no idea who Lenin, Stalin or Mao Tse-tung were or the multimillions of people they slaughtered in the name of socialism!
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:46pm
    OG and KSS doesn't matter to them, they will vote for the changes they want, start their own party maybe, and nothing we can do about it.
    Rae
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:28am
    Yes we will OG because if it's led from the UN and all countries come on board there will be no way out of it.

    Can you imagine no taxes, rates, levies GST, on and on the taxes on ordinary workers all gone and a simple 0.5% transaction tax.

    Of course we would need to be cashless which I believe you agreed was a good thing.

    It's the flat tax everyone seems keen on but on the money not just on PAYG workers.

    With machines replacing workers it will come or a revolution will.

    KSS I think you are mistaking Communism and Socialist. They are two very different ideologies. We haven't had a really socialist society since farming began and land ownership started demanding labour or taxes.
    Rae
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:34am
    Also the very rich live on cashflow and capital gain which is favourably taxed. They often pay nothing much as even shopping is done in tax free destinations. A transaction tax would finally collect a wee amount from all those billions they have.

    Perhaps rebates for trading charges might elevate some of the angst OG.

    People happily pay more that 0.5% to the bank for transfers but baulk at paying into their Nations revenue pot. It's very strange.

    22nd Jun 2018
    1:28pm
    The tax cut will help pensioners by increasing their superannuation fund balance more than it otherwise would without the cuts
    Increase company retained profits means increased dividends and share price
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:35pm
    And less people on welfare in the future.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:49pm
    I like what this government is doing with Superannuation. Particularly with the ATO having authority to identify and reunite multiple/lost memberships with the owners. Minimum of 3% fees charged on low balances of $6,000 or less. Greater scrutiny of unwanted life insurance which erodes the value of a members account by up to 10%.
    Removal of exit fees. etc.
    All these changes are of benefit to working families but of course Labor will oppose these measures as well as instructed by the unions. I just cant wait to see their logic.
    MITZY
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:06pm
    What about the pensioners who don't have superannuation, don't get dividends etc. These pensioners are probably the low income workers for the majority of their working lives who need to spend their wages on the necessities of life. This cycle just keeps going around and around century after century.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:16pm
    How so, Rafe? How will it increase superannuation balances?
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:19pm
    OG - can't see your reasoning there - a little extra to super holders won't reduce the number on SOCIAL SECURITY. That number will increase every year so any small change to super/income balances will not alter that downward.

    Mitzy - a nice rise in pension to compensate for not receiving this largesse will sort that out.... say....... ooooh ...... around 100 bucks a week? Same for the unemployed,of course..... they need to eat and get some clothes for non-interviews in a dead employment market.... in which most positions are merely exchanged around between people already in work.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:24pm
    MITZY, you don't get it? The whole idea is to make sure that low income workers of today rely less on the OAP in future years. You and I may not see it, but it is nice to know. as we tick off our bucket lists.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:28pm
    Well, if that's the idea, Adrianus, then your favoured LNP is run by IDIOTS, because they are making it detrimental to save and beneficial to have less and rely on the pension. Pretty STUPID!
    Anonymous
    23rd Jun 2018
    5:16pm
    Mitzy, the mealy-mouthed dreaming brainless privileged think the solution for low-income-earners is simple. ''Just get a better job''. And when there is nobody left to clean toilets, care for the aged, fill potholes on the roads, etc... then what? I think we should ALL quit work and stand for parliament. Yes... 100% of the population. Tell MT we are taking his advice. See how the IDIOTS fare then!
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:32pm
    The truth is working families are the big winners with these tax cuts. Young families are asked to do a lot for this country. They pay for all the so called 'entitlements' of an aging population while they also save for their own retirement. We want them to have more babies but they cant afford it. We make their power bill higher but they have no alternative. Only a very mean spirited person would begrudge them some tax relief.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    1:35pm
    Exactly. I feel sorry for the young family just making ends meet every week.

    Also don't forget self funded retirees will also benefit from these tax cuts and they have to pay full price plus some to pay for the discounts of those on OAP welfare as they get no concessions.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:20pm
    Makes me wonder how many of the writers here on this topic are actually still fill in a tax return. Is Adrianus the only one still thinking of the working population??
    MITZY
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:20pm
    If you read "The Conversation" young families with both parents working to strive for a better future living will not fair so well as far as the lady of the house is concerned if she works more than a couple of days a week?! Apparently the joint incomes of husband and wife are counted together and the wife working a full week instead of just a couple of days goes into a higher tax bracket and is basically working the extra days for practically no financial benefit! And this government is encouraging more and more women working more and more hours for the benefit of paying more tax. In the long run whatever government is running the country runs it for the benefit of themselves and nobody else. All the perfunctory platitudes you hear from the leaders is just that P.P.s !
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    2:21pm
    Yes - $10 a week will buy them three loaves of bread on special at Colesworths - won't quite cover a beer apiece for mum and dad to drown their sorrows......

    This range of cuts needed to be inverted to make any sense, since the lower paid spend more into the economy every day.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:07pm
    Surely you don't eat that bread Trebor.

    Why can't the higher wage earners get more in tax cuts? They earn more so deserve to take more home to their families than they already do.
    Grateful
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:23pm
    Adrianus. Young families are in dire financial strife mainly incurred by massive mortgage repayments as a result of having to pay these exorbitant prices for a home the price of which has been caused by unsustainable government tax incentives o property investors, or having to pay rent to that subsidized property investor!!!.

    And then you have to include the incredibly high costs of nearly everything that could easily be led back to government decisions of both persuasions,like GST, excise duty etc.
    BUT, THE biggest elephant in the room, which you can bet is being influenced by government, is the so called "independent" Reserve Bank that is withholding an increase in interest rates which would blow many young families out of the water, but, would be a political disaster with an election on the horizon.
    That $10 per week token,and reducing to more like $3 per week, will go towards paying the next credit card installment which has already been maxed out. It is nothing more than a futile attempt at vote catching and in the current economic climate, an extension to the welfare system.
    The big banks will get most of it and the economy won't see a cent.
    Give that $10 per week rise to an age pensioner on the FULL pension living on less than the poverty level and you can bet that ALL of it will be spent in the economy.
    That's what will create jobs and importantly keep the pensioner healthier and less of a burden on the health system. Keeping warm in winter would be just a start.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:30pm
    No Grateful that $10 given to a OAP will go straight in the cruise fund and then all travel overseas with them on their next cruise never to be seen again.

    However the $10 tax cut to a young family will help them and the economy immensely. Some may go to credit card repayment with helps the shareholders in bigger dividends that are then spent in the economy.

    Tax credits will create many more jobs than will an increase in welfare. Most welfare ends up on the back market and never gets back into circulation so is useless to our economy.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:06pm
    No - I don't eat bread, OG - it gives me bloat... things like that and IBS etc are a common problem in a certain demographic...
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:09pm
    So your view is that those on higher incomes are somehow more 'deserving' than the peasants, OG? They've already got more than enough, why hand them more - and proportionately far more than the peasant struggling to feed family?

    Clint Eastwood in 'Unforgiven' - "Deserving ain't got nothin' to do with it!"

    RAISE the top level of tax to 60% and reorganise the brackets to reflect REAL incomes for the many, not just for the few near the top.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:22pm
    Those on higher income deserve to have tax cuts as they pay way too much of what they earn in tax. Those on welfare earn nothing so deserve nothing but are given welfare due to the generosity of us taxpayers.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:32pm
    You really would have to have brain cells missing to suggest that giving more to high income earners results in spending that drives growth but giving it to pensioners means more spent on cruises! What an IDIOTIC statement! So the poor cruise the world instead of buying essential clothing, linen, food, etc. and the rich spend everything they have locally? Yeah... and my left leg plays Jingle Bells when you pull it.

    Those on higher incomes DESERVE tax cuts? Why? Because they DON'T work for their money but exploit the poor and that should be rewarded while WORKING HARD should be punished?
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:58pm
    BS
    Triss
    23rd Jun 2018
    1:29am
    If you can insult pensioners by asserting that they would waste $10 by going on a cruise, OG, then you have to use the same criteria for those on higher incomes and admit that their $10 would be wasted on fags, booze and whatever they could sniff, snort or stick in their arms.
    Adrianus
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:15am
    If I gave you $10 I would have no idea what you would spend it on. But I do know that cost of living pressures are hurting families. Why do you think our birth rate is dropping?
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    1:01pm
    How inssulting OG, a lot of people on welfare have worked hard and been taxpayers for years and maybe due to unforeseen circumstances are forced to rely on Social Security, stop putting everyone in the same basket.
    Kathleen
    24th Jun 2018
    12:32pm
    OG, you do not provide my pension and other retirees do not subsidise me. You are insulting and ignorant and probably seeking attention by your many outrageous claims.
    Generalisations made by you mostly make no sense.
    Rae
    27th Jun 2018
    9:10am
    Adrianus if we don't get money out and flowing to raise inflation a bit so the debt can be repaid how do you suggest we avoid a full blown banking crisis here?

    Howards capital gain distortions and excessive liquidity from the banks has created a monster. Forget the public debt because if the private debt falls over it will cost billions of government money to sort the thing out. Far more chance of a banking crisis than a government debt default.

    Hockey had no idea when he stuffed up the 2014/15/16 budgets of the consequences.

    Like most he was worrying about the wrong debt.

    You can see the consequences very clearly in all the data.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:11pm
    I am absolutely disgusted with Labor for what they did to Pauline with those robo calls to electors of Longman last night. Just because they disagreed with her vote in the Senate there was no need to do what they did. I'm so glad that she has now stated she will do whatever she can to keep Shorten out of parliament and if not vote against everything he puts up in parliament in the Senate. Politics is dirty but this stinks as well.
    Grateful
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:30pm
    Please explain??
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    3:33pm
    Just search for "robocalls pauline hanson" and read all about it.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:10pm
    So she's not going to adopt a neutral stance on issues - but rather a biased one on personalities and personal spite? What a great way to run a nation..... that kind of thing eventually leads to the gulag and the gas chambers....

    Good-O - Adios Pauline.
    MITZY
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:23pm
    I think she came back pretty quickly with her own robocall you can't knock her down very easily.
    Part of Penny Wong's response in the Senate was more to the point (to the face) than Labor's robocall.
    QUOTE: The tax cuts Hanson voted for will ensure the people of Wentworth do very well and the people of Longman do very badly!
    What you need to know is in Longman the number of people who are earning less than the $200,000 is 703. Guess how many in Wentworth? Over 10,000. Well done, Senator Hanson, you've delivered to Malcolm Turnbull's electorate. The Senate, Centre Alliance and Senator Hanson have fallen over themselves to deliver to high-income Australia and to Malcolm Turnbull's political strategy UNQUOTE.
    Whatever the outcomes its too far in advance to be giving some of those tax cuts and cutting out a complete tax bracket. Its irresponsible because nobody knows what the future holds for any economy. Turnbull today is indicating if jobs/growth continues he would like to bring those futuristic tax cuts forward. So much for crystal balls.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:23pm
    So it's OK to bully people just because you don't agree with their decisions. I certainly don't think so.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    4:26pm
    Mitzy that still doesn't entitle some one to bully others.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jun 2018
    6:29pm
    MITZY, you've just touched on our real problem. Penny Wong is more interested in how things look politically than she is concerned for the country's future prosperity. I listened to Penny Wong's 10 minute argument against the government's tax bill and I can tell you she had nothing. Not only that, she did not believe what she was saying.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:12pm
    just a warning to all those who have a different view of trebor's comments, for the last seven days he has been able to erase my comments in these columns by using the report button which automatically erases any comments one makes, trebor, is attempting to stop the free speech this country is famed for, it would be easy for me to also erase his comments in these columns, however I believe one got a right to express his or her's opinions, trebor you don't live in germany anymore, 2nd world war is over, don't try to rekindle the national socialist movement in this country we all call with pride AUSTRALIA.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:26pm
    Heemskerk you don't have to worry about TREBOR, as I have said elsewhere on this site, a poll out yesterday said over 60% of young people want a socialist society, they say capitalism doesn't work, they are the ones we have to worry about as they will all be voting soon.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:46pm
    Misty they say capitalism doesn't work simply because they are far too lazy to put in the effort and lack the desire to do what it takes to be successful.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jun 2018
    9:26pm
    o.g fully agree, the thought only of having to work will give most of our modern society an heart attack, so much easier to hold your hand out and live on the taxpayer's expenses! where I live just listen to the radio's weather forecast and if you hear the words "surf is up" centre link is emptied out within seconds and parking near the beach is impossible!
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:51pm
    Doesn't matter what we think OG and heemskerk, the young ones will get their way in the long run if governments of all persuasions do not listen to them.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:51pm
    Doesn't matter what we think OG and heemskerk, the young ones will get their way in the long run if governments of all persuasions do not listen to them.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jun 2018
    7:58am
    I must be living in the same spot as heemskerk99 - it's exactly the way it is here. People come here for a good life not look for work. And to be frank there is not much work here, another incentive!!
    Adrianus
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:12am
    Misty, in your perfect world, we should organise society upon the whims of lazy teenagers. If that is your view then you are part of the problem.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:38am
    Adrianus then tell me exactgly how you are going to change the mind of millions of young voters if that is what they want?, because I certainly don't have a solution, so what is yours?, and I take exception to you saying I am part of the problem, I am merely reporting what is in the news.
    Mad as Hell
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:15am
    It was the LNP that had Pauline Hanson jailed on trumped up electoral fraud. Not a fan of PH but this is how low the LNP sink.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:28am
    And still she sticks to them like glue.
    Adrianus
    23rd Jun 2018
    2:46pm
    The adults are in charge, nothing to worry about.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    3:22pm
    Teenagers can vote too Adrianus not just adults.
    Adrianus
    23rd Jun 2018
    6:39pm
    Yep, and if Bill Shorten got his way 16 year olds would be voting.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:21pm
    Adrianus you still haven't told me how you are going to stop the young ones forming their own party, and voting in droves, for the Socialist Society they say they want.
    Rae
    24th Jun 2018
    8:42am
    If we see Socialism rise it will be because the Capitalists refused to share the productivity over the past 4 decades. That was pure greed and stupid.

    I can understand the young and the way they are being exploited is again very stupid of Capitalists.

    The evidence is there in the data and cannot be denied.

    Wages in real terms have been falling since 1974 during some of the most productive period in history.

    We have improved lifestyle by taking on trillions of dollars of debt.

    These sorts of distortions , historically, never end well.
    Adrianus
    24th Jun 2018
    10:03am
    I don't want to stop anyone from having a view, unlike the Marxists who will soon be going to kindergartens with their political propaganda.
    Adrianus
    24th Jun 2018
    10:59am
    Rae, with your calculation on wages "in real terms' do you also include CSG contributions?
    Kathleen
    24th Jun 2018
    12:38pm
    Pauline gets too much attention. She was ignorant 20 years ago and she still is. She was not the only fool to push through the tax cuts that make no sense but she likes centre stage even though she has little to say. The big cuts are on the never never anyway.
    I think the light needs to shine on the other fools like Derryn Hinch.
    They supposedly stand for the battler. Well, the battler needs wage growth and less tax so they have more money to spend. Multi millionaires will save and invest but the poor will circulate their limited funds.
    Misty
    24th Jun 2018
    5:45pm
    Totally agree Kathleen and she says she is sticking up for the battler?, I don't know what her idea of a battler is but it certainly isn't mine, Pauline is a Liberal in wolf's clothing, just have a look on her fACEBOOK PAGE and you will see even her own supporters are fed up with her.
    Rae
    25th Jun 2018
    9:19am
    Yes Adrianus. There are many comparative graphs available to compare wages/salary income against productivity growth. This is the main reason the wealthy now achieve a much higher amount of GDP. Their share of wealth is getting close to the last high point in 1928 and we know what happened next.

    Remember "real terms" includes the cost of living into the equation. We had all those years of inflation that meant incomes were falling in purchasing power although we could borrow more and we certainly did. Australians now have the highest private debt levels in the world and on par with the Swiss who also live the high life on tick.

    The CSG is part of wages/salary that is "saved" hopefully for retirement.

    The biggest problem we have has nothing to do with public debt that the Government holds as Australia has never defaulted and although inflation has been used to help get us out of debt periods it has never gotten out of hand completely.

    The big problem if it occurs will be a banking crisis like 2008. It's the trillions of private debt in a deflationary period that is a real problem. That's why the Bail In Legislation was snuck in.

    The MSM constantly beat up the public debt which is quite low in global terms and manageable but ignore the private debt which is becoming unsustainable. Playing to the my team/your team mentality of the public with little understanding of fiscal and monetary management.

    By granting workers tax cuts some inflation is hoped for. I'll wait and see as I think the debt is overdone now and that has always ended badly. The 7 years seems a bit useless too if you really want to inflate out of debt.

    For those on fixed incomes it is going to get tricky which is why I suggested the CPI will need watching. At least pensioners get CPI rises.
    Adrianus
    26th Jun 2018
    9:37am
    Well Rae, if things are that bad I would recommend we don't make it any worse by artificially increasing wages.
    *Loloften*
    27th Jun 2018
    1:10am
    OG - up to your old nastiness again? Who cares abt Hanson, she only has 2 votes in the Senate. Now that we all know she no longer remembers her prior often stated struggles as Fish 'n' Chip shop owner/cook & relishing her new status/salary, she'll be surprised @ the lack of her previous fairly minor votes.
    SGW
    22nd Jun 2018
    7:39pm
    I reckon Old Geezer is an out of control Bot, that the programmers got wrong
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:07pm
    You hit the nail on the head with that comment SGW.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:08pm
    Like a broken record, so predictable.
    Old Geezer
    22nd Jun 2018
    8:44pm
    OG once was a computer programmer so maybe he knows a thing or two about bots.
    Misty
    22nd Jun 2018
    10:53pm
    How about reprogramming the "BOT" then OG.
    Mad as Hell
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:03am
    Good one OG.
    I’m programming my computer now it’s called an iPad which has more computing power than the ENIAC you were programming.
    The iPad is telling me these tax cuts don’t make sense and pensions are an entitlement.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:27am
    Try telling that to OG, Mad as Hell, he won't believe you.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:47am
    Ha ha my ipad is telling me that my pension is welfare that I get the to my good retirement planning those tax cuts wilk help the rest of my family so I am very happy with both. If the OAP is not available to everyone no matter if they can provide for their own retirement or not it is not an entitlement. I love my welfare as it allows me to do things in life that I want to do.
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    1:04pm
    Mick add VCB to that list also.
    Marian
    23rd Jun 2018
    12:52am
    The all Australian system against the who work all life is one of the most rude & abuse Pensioner the is not any others system who abuse Citizence life as is the Australian governments & the fake law . Pensioners who work & pay for the Pension is as garbage were all the system is lie & bully The is not Justice to stop the crime .
    Anonymous
    23rd Jun 2018
    9:52am
    Are you Micks mother ?
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:24am
    Don't be rude Raphael, didn't your mother teach you any manners?.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:53am
    OAP has nothing to do with how much your worked or how much tax you paid but what you have when you retire. Below the limits you get the pension above them you miss out, it is as simple as that. If you want the OAP start planning for it years before you retire.Let's face it you simply don't need too many assets after you retire so distribute your will the way you want to before you retire.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jun 2018
    7:55pm
    vcbb, you are asking a little bit too much of the audience in these columns, very few would know what it means to think for themselves, let alone to have the foresight to plan ahead
    Misty
    23rd Jun 2018
    10:24pm
    Insulting again heemskerk99? I think most of the people commenting here know a lot more about life in general, and how to cope and plan with what they have then you would, that is the impression one would get from your sarcatic comments.
    GrayComputing
    23rd Jun 2018
    1:29pm
    It is time for all of us to rant at our MPs and Senators daily to take action for human decency and a huge stress reduction for pensioners

    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    A pension is not welfare.

    Most economist say we will save taxpayers money by dropping asset testing because of the massive overheads cost in running Centrelink and the 10,000 conflicting rules.

    Hiring more Centrelink staff will only increase taxpayer’s costs for processing the creeping insane red tape monster system politicians and well paid bureaucrats have created.

    Help scrap it now. Become a hero.

    Even poorer New Zealand has a NO ASSET pension so it is cheaper and user friendly.

    Why worry that few million$ earners get it too. That is peanuts to them, not enough for a good vintage champagne.

    Do retired and retiring people really look forward and want 100++ visits to/from Centrelink and be part of 3 million waiting queues and lost calls?

    Does your MP really like being part of the system that allows this indirect abuse of the elderly?

    This abuse is actually sponsored by our government and forced down to Centrelink and borders on a criminal act.

    Why do MPs normally compassionate persons let this Centrelink abuse happen at taxpayers’ expense?

    Some opposition and independent MPs stand to lose their chance at being part of the needed government changes

    We all need to tell our MP and senators every day that these criminal asset tests for a pension must be dropped now.

    Also contact opposition and independent MPs who can help us to get a fair deal on pensions

    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    Oars
    25th Jun 2018
    3:47pm
    I agree. No asset or income test. But make sure that anyone getting a pension has been in Australia for at least 40 years- or we will become ( if not already) the "bleeding heart" of the Global bludgers. If they want to get our pension- then let them pay for it in tax and expenditure here for the last 40 years. The screening would be much simpler than this rubbish that Centrelink puts us honest retirees through. It would also sort out those who are really tru-blues, and cost less to manage at Centrelink. So there .
    Adrianus
    27th Jun 2018
    9:57am
    Why is it that a person can come into Australia today and get a OAP next week, while a citizen who has worked 40 years is in the battle of his life just to get any consideration? Does any one see a problem with this?
    Misty
    27th Jun 2018
    10:31am
    Yes Adrianus, for once I agree with you, this is a big problem, maybe we should be like Trump and do what he did just yesterday, ban certain countries from coming into our country and as someone said elsewhere on this site they should have to work a certain no of years before they are eligib le for any Social Security.
    Adrianus
    27th Jun 2018
    12:30pm
    Misty, that sounds ok in theory, but the people you vote for believe it is cruel and unkind. It's disappointing for me to have worked 50 years and paid more taxes than the average worker. Worked my arse off to help make this country great, been a law abiding citizen, helped my neighbours, produced off spring who became valuable members of society, lost relatives in wars, served my country in the military.. I could go on but what's the point? I'm at the point where I no longer ask what I can do for my country, but what my country can do for me, just like everyone else.
    Tell me someone?
    Why is it so??

    24th Jun 2018
    9:37am
    The rich will pay more and contribute a larger percentage to the tax income with these new tax cuts

    Well done LNP

    Bring on the company tax cuts . Even Albanese thinks Sliney Shorten is a d/Head
    Anonymous
    24th Jun 2018
    12:45pm
    The rich will pay more because laws were passed to ensure they pay less? That's the STUPID logic the LNP follows. No, actually, it's not. It's the STUPID lie they tell to progress their greedy agenda of taking from the poor to give to the rich.
    Rae
    25th Jun 2018
    9:30am
    It will have little effect on the rich as they use cashflow and capital gain so income really hasn't much interest for them.

    They may pay a bit more if inflation is created through the tax cuts when they buy anything here and pay GST. The tax cuts should produce inflation be but these days it seems it is very hard to get out of the deflationary loop that poor productivity distribution has created.

    Let's hope it helps pay some of the rising interest rates on all that debt as I don't think the LNP can move fast enough to prevent a banking crisis here if the debt blows up. They just aren't fair enough and will expect the Bail In legislation to work and to hell with the common people.

    The rich will be fine as the tax havens don't do bail in do they?
    Oars
    25th Jun 2018
    3:56pm
    Old Rainey. Please do a bit of simple maths. If the tax on (say) $80K is approx $16K and the tax on a person on $280K is approx $90K who is the bludger. Also, there are only a few great guns that reach that higher income- not because of any tax incentive, but because they are damn good at their job. It's called natural attrition- or the cream reach the top. Also it is what mankind is made for-to strive to be better, not to be dampened by some minimum wage- as Communism touts to the dumbfounded. Incentive creates amazing things- so to take away such a basic item would create "normality" second -best , and lack progress. We need high achievers, who must be rewarded. This tax incentive is only one way to encourage the few among us to achieve better than average/normal. So there.
    Misty
    25th Jun 2018
    5:15pm
    Oars, not always do people get the top jobs because of hardwork, or because they are good at their jobs but they get it because it is not what you know but who you know. So there.
    Anonymous
    26th Jun 2018
    10:47am
    Dream on, Oars! How can anyone be so deluded! Great guns get where they are because they are damn good at their job? NO NO NO NO NO. They get there because they have powerful connections and they had great opportunities. In the world of uneducated, unskilled people there are countless thousands who could do far better at high paid jobs than those who occupy them, but they can't get a look in because they have no letters after their name and no friends in high places. The incompetence among the high paid is mind-boggling! And the talent among the low paid, if you took the time to observe it, is astonishing.
    Adrianus
    27th Jun 2018
    9:53am
    Oars, save your breath. You and I know that opportunity is everywhere. I'm so pleased my kids didn't grow up in a household full of down and outers, negative on the world, with an envious disliking for those who take control of their lives. I'm so saddened to see people thinking this way and worse still blaming others for it. :(
    Marian
    24th Jun 2018
    10:16am
    the tax or many others who say any Australian Government Senate all is bully & lie the is not any information from Th P.M. were is truth the lie all the all news is fake the is very distressful all life ,days .years to the time death In the all Political paranoia all is garbage The is not help from N.G.O. or Human Rights Commissions include the lie on Parliament Join Commission Human Rights who also is fake
    Anonymous
    24th Jun 2018
    10:44am
    You sure you’re not Micks mom ?

    24th Jun 2018
    6:36pm
    I will be quite pleased to get a tax deduction..ty Mr Turnbull!
    Marian
    24th Jun 2018
    7:50pm
    The all news from any Governments is fake the is discrimination by the law & Constitution A.P.S. newer work for the Pension as the Citizence the A.P.S. work very shorten time 50% every day more Pension & never see the law for them to have any assets test or any others control the bank accounts as others or abuse as the Australian workers family were i the Democracy the is all fake & lie by the system rude & barbarian apartheid & fake law
    GeorgeM
    24th Jun 2018
    8:12pm
    I already predicted this some time ago - all Federal politicians will get the maximum $7,000+ tax deduction, so why wouldn't they vote for it? Pauline, Derryn, Xenophonies, Bernardi, etc, etc - all wanted this maximum tax cut FOR THEMSELVES! Also, watch how Labor MPs will find reasons to avoid reversing these tax cuts (can't hurt themselves)!

    Vote these leeches out at the first opportunity - so they don't get these tax cuts in their current easy seat-warming jobs, while they wait to reach 8+ years and get ENTITLED to massive, untested, unfunded, undeserved pensions! Retirees - the is a call for unified action, and DO NOT FAIL this country by your inaction or stupid voting for these undeserving teams!
    Rae
    25th Jun 2018
    9:37am
    Good to see the younger set calling for non partisan representatives. The Team thing is overdone now and controlled by bad elements on both sides with crazy beliefs about fairness.

    I'd just like a representative who goes into bat for my area. For some reason all 300 000 of us don't deserve any Federal money for anything year after year and the joint is falling apart with the Ugliest City in the World that nobody goes anywhere near.

    Total joke of the term Governing because they sure aren't doing much around here.
    *Loloften*
    27th Jun 2018
    1:14am
    So true George - well said.
    Marian
    25th Jun 2018
    8:45pm
    The system of Governments parliaments include the Constitution who is not by Australian Citizence consent or to be include is against all Citizence & Civil Rights is never work that is colonial model who is illegal today & only is abuse pensioners the life the family the childrens generation in Past & today the is not one members of Australian parliaments & senate act in law today life International law The Politician never understand Democracy that is not in Australian legal system is manipulation Politic & courts the is not Human rights the is not any civil Rights for Australian ( also the name is Colonial ) the is not Democratic law is abuse citizence from day of be born to death the system is disconnect from any truth law today's life the only hurt & destroy life all pensioners & citizence from day one to the end the is not Australian parliaments the is private system who act for them self the most rude is the office federal Attorney who lie all we send from 15 years emails the never replay on one & the Senate or ministers the nevr work in any law
    Kathleen
    26th Jun 2018
    1:09am
    Watched QandA tonight and was horrified to learn that the NDIS has had a massive amount of funding cut over the last two years. While we are looking at this taxation thing other cuts are happening that are cruel. Staff training is needed and more staff is also needed. Families are struggling to navigate the NDIS and it is frustrating for them.
    Adrianus
    26th Jun 2018
    9:30am
    Has the situation not improved since the introduction of the NDIS? If that is the case then throwing in more employees may not improve the situation? It may even make it worse?

    Australia has around 1 Public Servant for every 4 employed in the private sector. How many should we have? I know China has cut their Public Servant numbers by 50% in the past few decades, by moving them into the private sector.

    26th Jun 2018
    10:50am
    Shocked at MT's reply to Mr Shorten's comments on the tax cuts. He claims he's being attacked for ''having a few quid and working hard''. HMMMM! Funny how it was okay to attack over 65s who ''have a few quid and worked hard''. And it's okay to attack nurses and aged care workers and hospitality workers who WORK HARD on weekends and public holidays and at night. Seems it's only the privileged who already ''have more than a few quid'' and those fortunate enough to earn high incomes, who are entitled to be rewarded.
    Rae
    27th Jun 2018
    9:22am
    Yes they all had no qualms taking the promised part pensions off the table. Hockey was an idiot. We needed that money out there being spent and helping the young pay their debts down. It was spiteful ideology at best.
    Teddyboy.
    26th Jun 2018
    2:42pm
    If the wealthy had to pay tax on their income before it was affected by family trust etc. and negative gearing was abolished then maybe we could see some fairness in a 32% rate.
    To shift the effect of negative gearing from a benefit to the wealthy why not give a rebate on interest rates paid on a mortgage for first homes under a defined amount?
    Old Geezer
    27th Jun 2018
    10:58am
    The effect on ending negative gearing and have to pay more capital gains tax is going to make rents even higher and is likely to be the catalyst for a recession as capital is withdrawn from the capital markets in Australia.

    Has Bill copped a bashing over his latest ill thought out idea of scrapping the tax cuts? Bill I think you have just lost at least 2 bi-elections if not more.
    Adrianus
    27th Jun 2018
    12:19pm
    Teddyboy, do you also believe that a high wage is a benefit to the wealthy? Should we do something about that?
    sirrom
    27th Jun 2018
    1:24pm
    What a negative thought process - obviously a doomsday believer.

    For goodness sake try a little positivity ocassionally
    Misty
    27th Jun 2018
    2:41pm
    To which comment are you referring sirrom?