7th Dec 2018
Older Australians have put the Liberal Party on notice
Older Australians have put the Liberal Party on notice

Older Australians have put the Liberal Party on notice, with many voters who typically identify as Liberal faithful saying their party is damaged and that they will favour another party at the next federal election.

In YourLifeChoices Friday Flash Poll: Is the Liberal brand damaged beyond repair?, which garnered 2079 responses, 74.5 per cent of older Australians who typically identify as Liberal voters think the party is damaged. 

Around 39 per cent of the respondents were Liberal voters, 33 per cent were Labor voters, 11 per cent favour independents and six per cent vote for the Greens.

However, according to the survey, many more may swing towards independent candidates at the next election, with 54 per cent of typically Liberal voters saying they will vote for another party at the polls next year.

After a year of turmoil in the Liberal Party, with the ousting of Malcolm Turnbull, constant infighting, the ghost of Tony Abbott, unpopular policies that have hit retirees hard, instability within its own ranks and that of its National partners, and consistently losing Newspolls, the Libs are facing what seems to be an insurmountable challenge to retain government.

But, according to our members, its biggest challenge comes from within its own ranks.

Eighty-two per cent of the Flash Poll respondents think that Liberal politicians are only concerned with their own interests.

“As I see it, most politicians and in particular the Liberals, are only in it for what they can personally get out of it. The best superannuation in the country, all the perks that go with the job. They really don’t give a tuppenny damn about the rest of us, let alone the country. The current crop of Liberals are so out of touch with the majority of people and what is so galling is they fight amongst themselves while totally ignoring the rest of us. It’s not that they are self-serving in a covert manner, it is so open and obvious to everyone,” wrote YourLifeChoices member Chaz.

But that sentiment is not just assigned to the Libs – 45 per cent think all politicians are concerned with their own interests, and another 35 per cent think most are.

“You show me an honest politician and I will show you a poor politician: how many of them are there?” wrote tisme.

“I believe that the entire Parliament needs sacking! Australia has to start all over again or it'll be the end! None of the politicians are truly patriotic; they serve one master that’s above them all; the Federal Reserve Bank and other filthy rich corporations that rule the world. They are their lapdogs. They have been carefully selected and placed there to manage our countries on behalf of their master. We have already been enslaved without even being aware of it. The nation needs to wake up or suffer serious consequences,” wrote HKW.

Liberal sentiment has certainly soured and, according to our members, the ALP is a heavy favourite to win the next election, with 32 per cent saying they will vote Labor, 20 per cent to vote Liberal, 16 per cent to vote independent, and five per cent saying they will vote for the Greens. Seventeen per cent are still unsure who they’ll mark as their preference.

When asked whether Scott Morrison is the right man to lead the Libs out of the rut, 34 per cent said no and another 34 per cent think no person currently in the party can fix the mess.

However, 46 per cent think Julie Bishop would be a better leader, 13 per cent still back Scott Morrison, six per cent say Tony Abbott could do it and just four per cent say Peter Dutton would be the person for the job. Twenty-three per cent are unsure and many say no one currently in the party is suited to the role.

“These people are all poisoned by what has happened and carry negative baggage. New, younger blood is needed,” said one voter.

“They need to find a new fresh face with genuine interest in our country and its people,” said another.

“Anyone but any of the above. Someone with some degree of integrity and less self-interest would be a start but not sure if the Liberal Party has any such person or persons in Parliament or potentially running in the next federal election,” wrote another.

It also seems the beneficiaries of the Liberal Party pantomime will be independent candidates.

“Vote independent. We need more people of the people. I am encouraged by the quality of the independents in Parliament now; the latest, Dr Phelps, will help keep the establishment honest. Labor or LNP will not be able to ride roughshod if we have a strong independent faction,” wrote Retired Knowall.

But some still have hope for the Liberal Party.

“This ‘brand damage’ has happened previously to the Labor Party and it recovered to win elections. The Liberal Party will probably go the same way. Once it has reached the bottom the only way is up. Politics is a cyclical thing, like football and cricket and a lot of businesses, one day you are up and the next you are down. That’s life. Personally, I do not think it matters much which party, Labor or Liberal, is in power, the end result is usually similar,” wrote Eddy.

One thing is for sure: the odds are certainly stacked against the Liberals and, if these numbers are anything to go by, we will surely see a change of government next year.

Do you feel that this is the end (for now) of the Liberal Party? Are you confident that the next election will force a change of government? How do you feel about Bill Shorten becoming our next leader? Do you think the ALP can do a better job than the current government?

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    COMMENTS

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    Chris B T
    10th Dec 2018
    9:57am
    The only Hope The Liberals Had was Julie Bishop as Leader.
    No chance With The Shire Twit, so now by Default Bill Shorten.
    How Pear Shape the next 3 years will be after the election.
    The Liberals can only Blame Themselves.
    Remember The Drovers Dog Statement here we go again.
    {;-(0)
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    10:25am
    Just remember what happened in the US too.
    Swinging voter
    10th Dec 2018
    10:33am
    Wasn't Julie Bishop the one who gave away many millions of Australian workers' dollars to the highly questionable travelling circus, the United Nations with its overt goal of controlling the entire world? When meeting an Arab dictator Julie Bishop, contrary to Western culture, wore a headscarf to appease him and his beliefs that the subjugation of women is an acceptable way of life? Julie Bishop is transparently two-faced and I was pleased she took herself off sulking to the back bench.
    Chris B T
    10th Dec 2018
    10:50am
    Swinging Voter
    Julie Bishop was and still is there only chance.
    Who else would be????
    I don't care as they won't be back for along time.
    We will Have Secret Dealer Bill Shorten that will be by Far Worse.
    I've witnessed the behaviour when It Was A Union Crony.
    Brace Yourself.
    Sad.
    jackie
    10th Dec 2018
    11:35am
    Asbestos Julie was never their hope. All those years of toxicity has finally poisoned itself.

    Australia needs politicians that care for their country and people not just have a self vested interest in lining their own pockets.
    HarrysOpinion
    10th Dec 2018
    11:50am
    I thought so too, until I read that she went to Mexico for Karl Stefanovic's wedding. She's got her priorities all wrong.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:01pm
    Unfortunately, Chris - I came to the same conclusion... not that Julie Bishop if Wonder Woman with a heart at all, but that there was little other real choice.

    Mexico trip on public purse, was it?
    Arisaid
    10th Dec 2018
    12:17pm
    Asbestos Julie with the pearl earrings. No thank you!! As for Bill Shorten - God help us cause he certainly won't.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:35pm
    About as much use as an air conditioner on a motor bike.....
    LUVCO2
    10th Dec 2018
    2:20pm
    Chris wrote "The only Hope The Liberals Had was Julie Bishop as Leader."

    Seriously??

    She is just a Turnbull clone in skirts.

    This means she's also pathologically obsessed with "action" to stop "climatechange®" but doesn't spell out how puny humanity can stop climate change that's been happening for millions of years.

    "curbing CO2 emissions" is FUTILE since over 97% of CO2 emissions come from Mother Nature!

    227 Giga tons per annum from nature but a tiny 5.5 Giga tons per annum from human activities.

    If you don't accept this, Google "CARBON CYCLE"

    Any change in human emissions would be less than a drop in the bucket, but would result in an economic suicide pact.
    Rae
    10th Dec 2018
    2:52pm
    You over play the coal industry and gina. What is important is the water. Charge market prices for that and then we'll talk about how much coal actually costs.

    I'd like to see market prices charged for all water. If it's good enough for us then it's also good for them.
    Personally I don't think any of it matters because when we hit 14 billion the game is over for humans anyway. Maybe 30 years if we are lucky the way the population is exploding and no I don't believe the forecasters and that magically they'll stop soon and population will plateau.
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    3:18pm
    Swinging voter, I respected Julie Bishop for going to the back bench and when she hugged the Wentworth winner. Women seem to be banding together across the aisle which is a good thing and maybe the men could do the same. I also respected her donation of the red shoes making a statement about the coup!
    There are good people in all parties and amongst the independents.
    The ones I do not respect are the far right destructive people, Pauline Hanson who has never got any wiser, a few male independents who are as bad as the far right in the liberal party. It is a shame because then people tar them all with the same brush and it is not so!
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:40pm
    There is another option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-parliament
    Chris B T
    10th Dec 2018
    9:49pm
    Can any respondents offer a candidate for Liberal Party to win next Election.
    Twit from the Shire, Julie Bishop "No"
    Who else, Abbot surely not.
    Than Who.
    Just Bagging or is it Trolling.
    GeorgeM
    11th Dec 2018
    3:57pm
    Really BAD choice, Chris, absolutely NOT Asbestos Julie. She only looks after herself, and tried to get positions in each coup, but failed miserably in the last one - even the Libs can't stand her any more - she should GO AWAY.
    She is the ultimate non-performer - achieved ZERO as Foreign Minister (while handing out our money to crooked Govts & the UN), miserably failed in the MH17 case, failed again to protect the 2 Aussies in Bali who were murdered the Govt there, etc. While spending OUR money as freely as she pleased. A GOOD example of the type of person we DON'T need even as a MP. Even ScoMo can beat her in any election - as he just did in the party room. They need a street fighter to have any chance against BS Shorten!
    GeorgeM
    11th Dec 2018
    3:59pm
    Miss Pea your idea "to sack the federal parliament" is good - but try using Change.org, NOT Facebook which most people here (retirees) may not use.
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    10:56am
    Miss Pea is a good example why Cousins should not Marry.
    Dave R
    10th Dec 2018
    10:17am
    Next year the Liberal Party and it's temporary leader are going to get what's coming to them. There will not be many of them survive.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    10:27am
    Bill y boy is way too cocky he will lose the unlosable election.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    11:23am
    If that happens, I sure hope the selfish pensioners who are supporting wiping out the incomes and savings of self-funded retirees also get what's coming to them.
    HarrysOpinion
    10th Dec 2018
    12:05pm
    Good on ya Old Geezer and OGR...because of your fascist opinions people will vote for Labor. Suggest that both of you shove a sock in it !
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    12:12pm
    HS that comment shows you are one of those people with low IQs that vote Labor.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:36pm
    Oooh... personal... personal....
    jackie
    10th Dec 2018
    1:30pm
    Dave R...They know that too.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    2:30pm
    Indeed - they're setting about stacking the 'fair work' commission with mates from business and lining up a few more minefields for incoming Labor... one way of ensuring that their ideologically driven 'policies' continue after their death in Parliament..... kick the biased bastards out and Labor will have to pay out their 'tenure' so they cop a good earner either way... better to get the boot and take the golden handshake without doing any work...

    Wait for the locked-in mega-contracts that Labor will have to find billions to fund or even billions to shut down..... then listen to the tame MSM screech about how costly Labor is.... an old Liberal trick, that one.....
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:22pm
    Good call Dave but don't underestimate the power of the dark side...the Murdoch and Stokes media machines.
    We can but hope that voters get rid of the infestation which calls itself a government in Canberra which has been building its dictatorship brick by brick.
    Sundays
    10th Dec 2018
    4:24pm
    News Flash OGR. Many voters including the pensioners you so denigrate actually base their votes on issues which have nothing to do with Labor’s proposal on Franking Credits. Some of us actually take a wider perspective. Your posts insulting pensioners demean you. Many people have had their retirement plans curtailed due to government changes from both parties. They don’t continually (ie your rants on Friday) insult others. At one stage, I felt sympathy for your cause, now I’m with HS - eneough already
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    4:25pm
    The only "dark side" and "infestation is your mind MICK.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    5:02pm
    Agree Sundays. Issues matter but no point trying to understand OG and Lothario as these posters and cash for comment voices. Nobody takes them seriously on this website as everybody knows what they are and who has sent them here.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    5:07pm
    ROFL Sundays after reading your comment.

    So I'm demeaning myself by supporting proposals that I don't think are fair even though personally wont have any affect on me?
    Sundays
    10th Dec 2018
    5:26pm
    Old Geezer, my comments were directed to only genuine rayney or OGR. I’m in the same boat as you, not affected by the proposals and thnk they are unfair, but no need for OGR to continually bad mouth and insult pensioners. Some of the posts on Friday were too much
    Sundays
    10th Dec 2018
    5:28pm
    Yes Mick, I’m over the cash for comments too
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:41pm
    There is another option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    6:21pm
    Sundays, I don't demean pensioners - except those who maliciously wish hurt on self-funded retirees and refuse to acknowledge the unfairness of the ALP's attack. The fact is that self-funded retirees have become a sub-class - treated with derision and cruelty. It seems the most hated people in Australia today are white, native-born, heterosexual self-funded retirees - especially those with Christian or traditional values. And they appear to be ''fair game'' for every cruel and malicious attack - including a tirade of verbal abuse from pensioners who choose to tell themselves that all SFRs are ''lucky'' and therefore it's fair for them to be robbed.

    I am sick of this ''lucky'' BS. Some may be. Others were anything but. And SOME pensioners were lucky. Some wasted their money. Some manipulated to appear poorer than they are. Some overspent and indulged themselves. This is not bad mouthing or insulting. It's just a fact. And it's a FACT that decent people would pay attention to the unfairness of the ALP's policy and demand it changed - whether it affects them or not, but most definitely if they are among those being bribed with the ALP's unfairness.

    I'm not a facist. I hate the right wing. I grew up in abject poverty and struggled for a lifetime against a very cruel and unjust establishment and wealthy people who abused their power. And now my lifestyle is threatened by equally cruel and unjust people abusing their power and lying hideously and about their policies. I'm sorry if it offends that I speak out against them and against those who are so selfish and lacking in human decency to support demands for fairness.

    I have nothing but respect for ALL good people, whatever their station in life. I strongly support demands for a better deal for pensioners, and for them to be treated with respect.

    I JUST WANT THE SAME RESPECT AND COURTESY, and I won't apologize for condemning stinking greed that leads people to succumb to cheap bribes and condone hurt and unfairness to others.

    Every DECENT pensioner is telling the ALP that they will NOT get their vote unless they change their franking credit policy. And yes, other policies matter - a great deal - but it's hard to focus on other policies when your livelihood is being totally decimated by unfairness supported by blatant lies and the unadulterated selfishness of people who get $1 million from the taxpayer purse, yet begrudge those who get NOTHING even a small tax refund that is morally due and ought to, in any fair world, remain legally due.

    Perhaps those who take offence to my comments should consider how it feels to fear that everything you worked and sacrificed for over 5 decades is likely to be snatched away from you - for no better reason than that you DID work and sacrifice. Perhaps instead of being ''offended'', try to walk in the shoes of those who are clearly upset and see if maybe there are ways to be kind and supportive instead of mounting a counter attack?

    Unlike some here, I have never defended or praised LNP policies or the right wing, and I have never justified hurt to battlers. But I really did reach a low point in response to the hideous selfishness and cruelty of ALP supporters, and their stubborn refusal to acknowledge wrong. Loving a party or believing in what you THINK are its values or objectives is not an excuse for condoning wrongful hurt to innocent people.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    6:37pm
    I'm on the side of all lower income retirees, no matter what their situation......
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    6:39pm
    I dont discriminate against lower or higher income retirees.

    We need small government and lower taxes for everyone

    We don't need clueless greedy idiots like Shorten to take our hard earned money to waste on dumb projects or to line their pockets
    Sundays
    10th Dec 2018
    7:12pm
    Well at least you’re forewarned. Many retirees have had the rug pulled out from them with no warning. Think changes to asset tests, changes to the deductible amount for defined benefit pensions, changes to the retirement age etc. Rules which have been grandfathered to benefit some while others miss out. The whole system needs an overhaul. Sadly, people always back self interest. If a policy doesn’t affect them, and they feel more strongly about different policies that is how they will vote. Have a back up plan for your retirement
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    9:11pm
    And many who had the rug pulled without fair warning are the SAME people who will be slaughtered by Shorten. No other group of Australians has had their income decimated so hideously.

    And Sundays, I've looked through my past posts and I can't find ANY where I have denigrated pensioners. Every comment was qualified as referring ONLY to selfish and greedy pensioners who refuse to support fairness. But I really am tired of the constant harping that suggests pensioners have some sort of superior entitlement and should be favoured. SFRs also worked for decades and paid taxes. The difference is that they are STILL PAYING from their own resources, while pensioners are collecting around $1 million from the taxpayer over the course of their retirement.

    Saving ought not to be regarded as evil, and people don't have the right to make wild and unfounded assumptions about how savings were accrued, much less to suggest that people who saved should not be allowed to enjoy fair benefit for doing so. The attitude in Australia seems to be like that of a father who gives the child who bought lollies last week their pocket money, but refuses to give any to the other child who put his in his piggy bank last week. It's wrong, and it's time people acknowledged it is wrong and demanded a fair deal for all.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    9:18pm
    BTW Sundays. No amount of warning is of any use at all if you are helpless to do anything in response. Hundreds of thousands CAN'T protect themselves. They are not investment experts. They will probably suffer massive losses if they sell shares. They don't have family members in accumulation mode to bring into their self-managed super fund. They simply DO NOT HAVE OPTIONS. And the stinking vile party that claims to be for the ''average Australian'' is persecuting those self-funded battlers who suffer greatest disadvantage, while making sure the wealthy are well protected.

    Ultimately, what Labor is doing is precisely what ALP voters condemn the LNP for - taking from the poor to give to the rich. Who do you think will buy those shares that battlers are forced to sell for half what they paid for them? Not to poor strugglers who can never get franking credits ever again. No. They RICH AND PRIVILEGED, including wealthy manipulative pensioners who rip off the country. Folk like mega-millionaire Big Bear who bought houses for all his grandchildren, bought a lavish McMansion, and spends his pension travelling the world while his children pay all his bills.

    Maybe that's what this stinking franking credit policy is really all about? Forcing battlers to sell shares at a loss so the rich can buy them up cheaply and then wait for the values to rise again.
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    9:59pm
    OGR, Words like ‘selfish’ and ‘elite’ to refer to pensioners says more about you than that group. Why attack them? They are not name calling you.
    Within each group on here are individuals who are not all the same. Each group on here is composed of a wide range of people. People have different values and stories to tell.
    You can be poor and happy or rich and lonely. Envying someone because they are a pensioner is actually quite puzzling.
    Sundays
    10th Dec 2018
    10:12pm
    Maybe I don’t like your us and them mentality, or words like selfish and greedy to describe pensioners. You appear angry that some people spent all their money and now get the OAP. Why? It’s their entitlement. You don’t know their story. People like Big Bear are the minority. I agree the policy is unfair, but for some pensioners things like rising costs of electricity, or more of a focus on social justice are more important. It’s their right and not personal against you. Just because they choose to not vote Liberal does not mean they aren’t sympathetic to your situation but have other priorities. Btw, I had the rug pulled out from under me but I won’t be slaughtered by Shorten. My priorities are different. I don’t rely on Centrelink, still unfairly in my view pay tax but happy to spend some of the money I’ve saved because frankly at this time of life I’m over struggling.
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2018
    8:02am
    Paddington, I don't envy anyone for being a pensioner. I just resent unfairness. And sorry, but pensioners DO attack SFRs. I see posts branding SFRs ''selfish and greedy'' every day. I am constantly being told the ALP is right to attack SFRs because they are ''rorting'' or ''cheating'' or ''taking money unfairly''. When I was standing up for pensioners, they were using these words about SFRs constantly. It's toned down now on this forum, seemingly because they are happy to see SFRs threatened and afraid.

    Sundays, the ''us and them'' mentality isn't mine. I merely respond to the 'us and them' mentality of those who constantly claimed entitlement and harped about how they worked for decades and paid taxes. I think it's time they acknowledged that most SFRs did too - and are STILL paying, but getting NONE of the taxpayer-funded benefits pensioners enjoy.

    I don't believe people like Big Bear are the minority at all. I can't find a single aged pensioner, among hundreds I know, who didn't have far, far more than I ever dreamed of but spent it to qualify for a pension. That's not to say they aren't out there. Of course there are genuinely needy pensioners who are struggling through no fault of their own. But in a world of decent, ethical people, others would be supporting my demand for reform of a bad system - not enjoying taking advantage of it, to the detriment of the genuinely needy and struggling taxpayers.

    A choice of who to vote for has nothing to do with the issue. It's to do with standing up for what is right. Just because someone votes Labor doesn't mean they can't take up the battle for a change in a wrongful policy, and doesn't mean they can't show respect and empathy for those who will be unfairly hurt by that policy.

    And Paddington, stop misrepresenting. I have NEVER used the word ''selfish'' to refer to pensioners - only to those who ARE selfish, protecting their own interests and showing no concern for the wrongs that hurt others.

    As to the word ''elite'' - it's accurate. The Labor Party have made it that way. They have granted pensioners elite status and made SFRs a subclass to be hated and persecuted. Nothing to do with me. It was Shorten and Bowen and their mates who did that - declaring that anyone not on a pension in March 2019 could NEVER GET FRANKING CREDITS EVER AGAIN. Someone with $1 less than the threshold might inherit millions, win a lottery, get a huge gift from a rich child or relative... and as long as they spent it quickly, they would still be favoured. But someone with $1 more than the threshold (and possibly far, far less real wealth when the value of the family home and hidden assets is counted) could suffer an investment loss or family crisis or sickness or natural disaster leaving them destitute and they would STILL be penalised for daring to be self-supporting during that one random period. Only a selfish elitist would approve that unfairness.

    If you are not selfish, stand up for what's right. Being a pensioner has nothing to do with it. But it was you, Paddington, who kept selfishly justifying the policy by stating that pensioners wouldn't be affected - as if that made it okay and SFRs don't count.
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    10:57am
    Miss Pea is a good example why Cousins should not Marry.
    Hoohoo
    13th Dec 2018
    9:03pm
    OGRainey, you should write to Shorten & explain your situation. I'm sure if you are genuinely facing hardship (after working hard & saving all your life) the Labor Party should consider making exceptions for people who will struggle if they don't receive the franking credits. Perhaps even an income means test?

    I'm sorry to hear you've taken others' comments personally, when talking about very wealthy SFR's. They're not talking about you, they're talking about those who have ridden on the backs of hard-working strugglers all their lives, without ever raising a sweat themselves. We know you're not one of those people.
    Anonymous
    13th Dec 2018
    9:05pm
    Hoooohoooo
    Haaaaahaaaaaa

    Hahahahahahahahahah !!!!!!!
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2018
    8:16am
    Sorry, HooHoo. I don't mean to be rude, but I have to agree with Lothario's response. I HAVE written to Shorten, and to many other Labor politicians. And Shorten's very public response was, and I quote ''You can talk to me up hill and down dale and I will NEVER change my mind''. His minions have responded with the biggest load of PROVABLE LIES I've ever encountered. Just a few:

    1. 53% of benefit goes to retirees with more than $2.4 million in super and paying no tax. LIE. People with more than $1.6 million in super DO pay tax, and anyone with more than $2.4 mil in super retains their benefit under Shorten's 'favour the rich' policy.


    2. People are getting tens of millions (the figure varies, but one quote was $25 mil) in cash franking credit refunds and paying no tax. Who, pray tell? How? They would need some $100 million in shares and anyone that rich and not paying tax should be being investigated by the ATO. It's NOT justification for attacking all self-funded retirees.


    3. It's a 'rort' (or a 'gift') that we can't afford. But we CAN apparently afford to continue giving it to all the high income earners and wealthy retirees, and even rich pensioners with multi-million dollar houses. Just not struggling self-funded retirees.


    4. It will benefit the budget. How? Many of those who will lose will go onto pensions and cost the nation more. Most of those who will lose will restructure and invest elsewhere - possibly offshore, taking money out of the Australian economy.

    5. It's 'fair' because the only losers will be wealthier retirees. LIE. The WINNERS will be the wealthy, because they can continue to benefit from franking credits to reduce their tax. Battlers will no longer be able to enjoy fair returns from investing in shares and will likely have to sell their shares at a loss (because share prices will fall). Guess who will buy them? The rich, of course. No doubt Shorten and his wealthy mates will enjoy a lovely windfall!

    Hoohoo, it's not even about me or people like me. It's about the harm this policy will do to the nation, and the lies being told to justify it - evidencing just how untrustworthy Shorten and his mob are. They are DANGEROUS. Anyone who lies like that to sell a vile policy is a danger to the public.

    Thank you for your last paragraph. That was very nice. Sadly, the attacks have been very personal, and continue to be. But I appreciate your empathy.
    Hoohoo
    16th Dec 2018
    7:58pm
    Well I agree with you when you say politicians lie - they all do, it seems, at least the major two parties.

    I wrote to Andrew Rob (who was the Trade Minister at the time) telling him how the TPP would ruin my business. He answered telling me to be innovative & what a great opportunity it would be for me to move my manufacturing base to China. Next thing he goes off on stress leave, retires & then gets a job brokering the lease of the Port of Darwin to the Chinese Government. No wonder they fear a Federal ICAC with real teeth!
    Same deal when Abbott became PM: a whole list of ex-Labor politicians suddenly appointed to the Boards of a heap of coal mines in the Hunter Valley. How can this behaviour not be corruption?

    I must admit I don't fully understand franking credits, except that the rule should apply to everyone (either no franking credits for anyone or franking credits for everyone). I can only dream about ever owning shares - I've only ever invested in my own business & home. But I know it's wrong when people who are very rich don't have to pay taxes (or are given concessions) when others on a fraction of their incomes pay more tax than them.

    If you really are going to struggle OGR, all I can suggest is you change your retirement strategy before the next election.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2018
    9:33pm
    I wish I could change my investment strategy, Hoohoo. I've no idea what I could do that wouldn't result in major loss, and no adviser seems able to tell me. I'm not an expert in finance. I bought shares a few years ago - very reluctantly - because bank interest was so low I was going backwards. An adviser told me that was really the only sensible option. I don't have enough to go into property because it won't generate enough income and I can't sell little bits of a house when I need a cash top up. I don't understand most investment options, and that makes me terrified of risk. I don't think retirees SHOULD have to be investment experts to survive. Government policy should NOT put them in the position of having to be financial wizards in old age.

    I never owned shares either until I semi-retired and downsized my home. I put the proceeds in the bank, but when I found I couldn't get a pension, I realised I had to do something to make more than bank interest.

    I have always been scrupulously honest and ethical and done what I thought good for society, but I am starting to wish I'd been a dishonest manipulator, because it seems doing the right thing results in hardship. I think politicians are so corrupt that they think anyone with integrity is stupid and fair game to persecute. And it seems a lot of folk here agree!

    As far as franking credits go - the Labor Party has grossly misrepresented and capitalized on the ignorance of many, but it's really simple actually. Shareholders own a company. Their investment funds its activities, so when it makes profit, the profit is distributed back to them. But first it's taxed - typically at 30% (a little less for smaller companies). The income belongs to the shareholder, but the tax is taken before they are paid, so if they are not legally liable to pay tax, they get it back. It's just like wages you pay to your staff. You take tax out. If you take more than they are obliged to pay, they get it back. With share dividends, if you are liable to tax, what was taken out is correctly credited against what you owe and you pay the balance, so you are not taxed twice on the same income. If you have paid more than you owe, you should get it back as a cash refund.

    Shorten says if you are liable to pay tax, you should still be able to claim the tax taken from your dividend as tax already paid. I agree. But then he says if you are not liable to pay tax, you should forfeit that 30% tax that was taken - effectively paying 30% tax on income that is too low to be legally taxable. Some accountants have asked if this is the start of a new trend - and wage earners will be denied a refund of overpaid tax as well down the track. I suspect anything is possible in our current environment!

    What really irks me is that pensioners are exempt, even if they are rich and own a multi-million dollar home. But anyone who wasn't a pensioner in March 2018 will be denied a franking credit benefit FOR LIFE - no matter how poor they may become over time. In today's environment, people who can't get a pension have very little choice but to invest in shares to fund retirement. There are NOT a lot of options. If the returns are slashed, how do they live? Already many earn way less than the pension, with none of the benefits.

    Apparently Labor Party officials are saying people like me should move to institutional super. There are major problems with that strategy too, but one is trust. I was in a large superannuation fund at three different times in my life and every time I lost all my investment. A relative had $180,000 six months before retirement and retired with $80,000 and a letter apologizing for ''losses due to bad investments''.

    Ultimately, it appears my only choice is to drain my savings enough to get a pension, but that has major implications apart from money. My partner and I suffer psychological issues from childhood that have created a paranoid fear of being dependant on welfare of any kind. We worked incredibly hard to ensure we could be self-supporting and never at the mercy of bureaucracy again, because we've suffered so much injustice and torment at the hands of bureaucrats. My partner is almost suicidal with fear of being at their mercy again. I know that's hard for others to understand, but when you've endured what we have, it's not easy to put the fear behind you.

    Thank you for your empathy, Hoohoo. It is refreshing after some of the nasty comments. And I'm sorry Lothario was insulting.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2018
    9:35pm
    wtf - leave me out of your silly arguments with hoohoo, sundays , misty , paddington and all the other loonies
    you're all batshit crazy
    Hoohoo
    21st Dec 2018
    4:03pm
    Just leave yourself out, you bloody idiot Lothario. You have nothing to offer.

    OGR, I was going to recommend superannuation - perhaps the self-managed variety? I have a small amount with First State Super, which I contributed to while I worked for the NSW Government during 2000-2001. I was given the option of going for bigger rewards with bigger risk at three different levels of risk, or opting for less reward for less risk - I went for the second least risky level. My Super has nearly tripled since then (& I've made no more contributions since 2001). So it's fairly safe & it certainly handled the GFC OK, going backwards only for a short time.

    I'm very sorry you've been so badly burnt by bureaucracies - I can't blame you for being distrusting of them. But it's so hard to trust anyone any more. I recall Howard telling everyone to "save save save" when he was PM. I suppose he was trying to curtail inflation during the mining boom. Unfortunately, the very people who acted responsibly were then disadvantaged compared to people who spent all their pay each week even when they had a lot of disposable income, or blow all their savings on overseas trips every year or two (as many young people today seem to do).
    KB
    10th Dec 2018
    10:21am
    Julie Bishop would make a great leader whether for Liberals or Labour ,She would have united the party. Hopefully Labor will win. Shame that it is Bill Shorten as leader,
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    11:07am
    God help us if Labor wins and doesn't change it's hideous franking credits policy. It will wipe out the lifestyles of hundreds of thousands of retirees and even poorer workers - either the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich ever seen in Australia, or the withdrawal of investment from Australian companies driving the worst depression ever. Or both.
    Arisaid
    10th Dec 2018
    12:18pm
    No she wouldn't KB. The evidence is there.
    jackie
    10th Dec 2018
    12:29pm
    KB Tax payers can't afford to have her. She makes the other Bishop look frugal and don't forget Asbestos Julie is not to be trusted.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:25pm
    OGR - the franking credit issue is a relatively minor one and I'd be surprised if Shorten did not put a sensible threshold in place to save pushing self funded retirees into poverty.

    Bishop? I recall she used to have a mouth not too different to Cash. Nasty stuff! Of course Bishop is now contrite because she needs to pacify her voters lest they vote her out. That would be my preferred option and I hope her electorate does what is necessary for the country.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:42pm
    There’s another option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    6:24pm
    Mick, nothing MINOR about threatening to wipe out the livelihood of hundreds of thousands who have worked hard and sacrificed to make a massive contribution to this country - even AFTER retirement. And Shorten has been absolutely emphatic that HE WILL NOT CHANGE IT (though I'm sure he would if his own support base demanded he do so. Sadly, it seems ALP voters are mostly unhurt by it and too selfish or too deceived to care a damn for those who will suffer.)
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    6:25pm
    And another fact - Mick. If the ALP is so inept as to devise such an unfair policy and so arrogant as to say they will not listen to objections and consider making changes, then they can't be trusted. They are NOT fit to govern.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    6:28pm
    Absolutely right Rainey !
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    6:39pm
    It doesn't affect Shorten's support base, Rainey - he's up there with the gods and set for a comfortable life without doing very much work at all.... that's part of what's wrong with Labor these days.... not to mention ad infinitum its sustaining of the Forever War Between Women and Men for its own purposes....
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:05pm
    OGR - you are missing the point.
    We too are affected by having franking credits removed but it is not the end of the world because this is an add on to dividends. Having said that Shorten needs to modify the proposed policy.
    Either way this would not wipe out large swaths of retirees.
    The real game should be to go after tax avoiding multinationals and wealthy Australians who are paying very small amounts of tax. I'd like answer as to what is acceptable to transferring your profits out of the country or offshore tax shelters. This is the problem and other nations are being played in a similar manner. It shows you WHO is in control. Not the elected representatives!
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2018
    8:22am
    It might not be the end of the world for you Mick. Don't presume to know the impact on others. I've come across folk who are suicidal with fear. For my family, it spells a personal disaster that only those who experienced what we have or who are trained in psychology and work with people who have been through what we have could hope to understand.

    Don't downplay it. It WILL wipe out large swathes of retirees. But it will do far worse than that. It will do massive economic harm that will impact on everyone but the very wealthy. And it's been very carefully crafted to deceive the masses while ensuring a huge transfer of wealth and power to the favoured and destroying opportunity and the future for average Australians.

    Yes, the real gam is going after the wealthy who are paying small amounts of tax. And Labor had openly shown - despite it's lies - that it HAS NO INTENTION OF DOING THAT. The wealthy are keeping their franking credits, and will no doubt enjoy a windfall when the battlers are forced to sell their shares at a loss.

    Wake up to reality, Mick. Labor is every bit as poisonous as the LNP, and pursuing the exact same goals.
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    10:57am
    Miss Pea is a good example why Cousins should not Marry.
    Mollymoo
    10th Dec 2018
    10:26am
    The politicians need to start listening to the baby boomers we are a majority and we need to step up and tell the government what we want. I want to retire at 65 not 67. I have worked all my life 50years I believe that I am entitled to a pension and all the benefits that are included.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    10:30am
    So you spent all your money and now want the taxpayer to support you? After 50 years working you should have more than enough to fund your own retirement.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    11:22am
    And are self-funded retirees entitled to FAIR taxation, Mollymoo, or is it only the now elite pensioners who are entitled to a decent standard of living, while SFRs have everything they worked for taken away?
    Sen.Cit.90
    10th Dec 2018
    11:40am
    Old Geezer, Your comment is below the belt, shame on you. Mollymoo paid taxes for 50 years. As did I. In my case, I had also saved to become an SFR then along came that B*****d
    Keating Treasurer for the Labor party, introducing rules to force us on the share market. I like thousands of others lost the biggest portion of our investments on the downturn. Keatings 'banana republic'. If you have a single cell in your brain; Never Ever Vote Labor
    Triss
    10th Dec 2018
    12:02pm
    Yes, Senior.Cit. but Paul ­Keating didn't have to bother as he would know he had a bullet proof $140,000 pension which is probably doubled by all the perks that goes with it.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:07pm
    On another forum,OG - in keeping with your statement above - I posted a parody of a budget statement by S&M, in which part was that huge savings in the budget will come from applying the Labor DI rule to pensions - if a person has zero income on retirement they will receive no pension (refund) since they should have provided for themselves.

    As I said - a parody ...why not just bus all those of pension age without substantial income to the Snowies and toss them into a snowdrift on a freezing night... make it quick...

    Maybe build a few gas chambers and furnaces....a few guards with SS flashes (Seniors Stokers) and black uniforms so the soot doesn't show too much, and Adolph's Yer Uncle!
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:09pm
    .. and indexed, Triss - be worth more than double that now.... plus perks ....

    Like CEOs of companies - the whole show would have gone the same route without them, so what is their justification for riches for life for free?
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    12:15pm
    If I had zero income I'd get the OAP plus all the benefits. Fortunately I have enough income and pay enough tax to keep my franking credits. My MSF does have a few but a few simple adjustments will make sure Labor doesn't get an extra cent. I am one of the lucky ones who can just do a few simple changes and avoid that tax but I do feel for those who can't. It is the most unfair policy I have ever seen and ever wish to see.
    Triss
    10th Dec 2018
    12:30pm
    Yes, Trebor, perhaps we need a Royal Commission for Politicians' pensions. It was a corrupt pension rule to start with and every politician who has benefited from that ruling should be jailed for aiding and abetting.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:39pm
    The justification was that after leaving politics they would have no other means of sustenance - we have the spectre of an Independent with a medical practice ongoing and a seat on local council....

    Does that mean she will not receive Federal politician superannuation benefits?

    The whole thing was based on a lie, and remains on a lie - they ALL have nice little earners that they go to the moment they leave politics... and there is not one reason on this earth to feed them handsomely for life.

    Should be means tested...
    jackie
    10th Dec 2018
    1:34pm
    Old Geezer....Mollymoo kept politicians and welfare recipients for over 50 years. It's about time that kindness was returned.

    Good luck to you being comfortably well off but please don't gloat over those that gave been generous all their lives with their money and spirit.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    1:36pm
    So now you are accusing me of not being generous. Well maybe I shouldn't have been then.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    1:45pm
    Sen. Cit - I see where your hatred is coming from.
    Respectfully you could have bought a residential rental property or two and made millions. Had you held your shares rather than sell at a loss you would have done quite well. Had you chosen companies which were paying a good dividend you also would have done well.

    Your Labor hate post ignores the fact that you made a bad call. Spare a thought for Abbott and Turnbull forcing self funded retirees off even a part pension with an assets test which is way too low. And then they keep wanting to bring the family home into the assets test as well.

    I find it disturbing that your political hatred extends to only one party. When you sit down and do a ledger the LNP is by far the biggest rat by far....unless you have a lot of money, in which case you get looked after pretty well. Company tax cuts to come if the bastards get back in.
    Rae
    10th Dec 2018
    3:14pm
    I worked for 50 year too but that is no guarantee you'll get a taxpayer funded ride. The taxpayers are getting grumpy and aren't earning so much anyway nor paying tax and the Government sold all the Country's earners long ago.

    SEN.Cit 89 you wouldn't have lost money if you hadn't sold out at the time of the crash.

    The best bull market ever has just been making money since 2009.

    It will collapse again as that is what markets do. Personally I like bear markets as buying shares cheaply beats paying high prices for them. Then there are bonds and property.

    I've lost more income from property and Joe Hockey's budget than from the sharemarket falls.

    A lot of pensioners squandered their savings buying bigger and bigger houses and better cars every two years and every toy they could and resent those who stayed put and bought income producing assets which was sensible and for which they are being punished now. Being comfortably off and self funded was never good luck but good management.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:28pm
    Rae - I suspect you are alluding to the fact that the wealthy are taking more and more, the government has sold out jobs and GenY is wanting money from wherever. Mum and dad is a start. Then lets go after our parents with political muscle. Give it time.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    5:09pm
    I like bear markets too as they are safer than inflated bull markets.
    Rae
    10th Dec 2018
    5:21pm
    It's actually looking like some buying might be in order but I'm painting my log cabin it's bi annual oil slap and that vegetable and berry/citrus garden doesn't grow and pick itself either. I'll take a look after New Year. I suspect a lot of others will do the same.

    Watching the bond market with interest. Yields are rising and bonds are looking better priced for shorter terms. That inverted yield generally means cheaper shares soon.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:44pm
    For those that are interested in our country and not just themselves.....this is for you. *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Old Man
    10th Dec 2018
    10:48am
    I find it very hard to believe that 39% of those filling in the poll were Liberal voters whilst only 33% were Labor voters. This forum is full of Liberal haters, one only has to read the comments to see that, yet according to the published results, Liberals outnumbered Labor. As I see it, those completing the polls lied about their affiliations. I would never suggest that YLC people would do anything to alter a poll. Could it be that Labor supporters were too thick to work out how to answer the questions? In saying that, I chose to ignore the poll because the choices of answers were pushing the result in a predictable direction.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    11:10am
    Liberals are not so hard nosed like the Labor ones.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:09pm
    Could've been some double voting - vote early - vote often!
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    12:16pm
    Trebor only Labor voters do that.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:40pm
    I didn't cite one side or the other....
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    1:45pm
    The forum is full of Liberal Party trolls OM. Get it straight!
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:45pm
    There is an option to get OZ back! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Hoohoo
    15th Dec 2018
    5:57pm
    Old Man, please take off your one-eyed glasses. Obviously you are pro-Liberal so it seems you only notice the voices that oppose your own.

    As for me, I thought there were many more right-wingers than left-wingers on this forum. It's no surprise that we view the world from our own biased standpoint.

    I answered the Poll truthfully, saying I don't vote Labor. Luckily, it's not just a choice between Liberal & Labor! Unfortunately, most people think they're the only two choices, so when it comes to election time, they are frightened into voting for one side, just to get rid of the other side. The last classic example was when Abbott became Prime Minister. He didn't win the election - he made Labor lose it (with lots of help from the far right media). Then he Steven-Bradburied into the top job.
    Hoohoo
    15th Dec 2018
    5:59pm
    Abbott was the most effective Opposition Leader, but the absolute worst Prime Minister in living history. Mark Latham might have given him a run for his money - lucky he never became PM.
    MON
    10th Dec 2018
    10:49am
    Is there a choice? With the ALP and Shorten planning to favour the Industry Super Funds (Union Funds) to the detriment of those of us who have our own SMSF, the LNP devoid of any reliability of legislation, Independents doing just that independent of logic and the Greens even further left than the ALP. We are in for a rough ride what ever the outcome.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    11:09am
    It will have big rocks under Labor.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    1:47pm
    ".............favour the Industry Super Funds"? Do you not mean ensure members get a decent return on their money rather than have greedy top end of town management push their snouts deep into the feeding bowl and consume as much as they can? Get it straight mate.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    3:21pm
    Mick if they get all the money in industry super funds you can say good bye to good returns as it will all be used for infrastructure which will only make good money after it is sold to private enterprise.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:30pm
    What else would a cash for comment Liberal Party employee say OG?
    Returns have NOTHING to do with size and EVERYTHING to do with prudent management and keeping the snouts of management out of the feeding trough.
    Spin it as you will.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    5:11pm
    The management of industry funds is questionable at the best of times. I bet they now have negative returns for the year.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:46pm
    There’s a huge choice! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:09pm
    Management of Industry Funds is questionable? Ha ha ha ha. I'm sure you think your are Donald Trump OG.
    Industry Funds have slaughtered Retail Funds. If you claim they are making negative returns then Retail Funds must be going into liquidation????? What a joke your posts are. Cash for comment!
    travelman
    10th Dec 2018
    10:59am
    It is certainly the end of the Coalition - that is obvious from your report. The ALP should be voted into power - independents or any other would be a disaster.

    But we have forgotten one group who have, over 5 decades, neglected their responsibility for this country - it is us, the citizens of this nation. I believe with all my heart that we have not done our part, our responsibility to steer and influence the actions of our governments both Federal and State. We vote them in and then think our job is done, 'leave it now to the pollies' is our attitude. This has to change and change radically for all of us. We have now had our 'wake-up' call and must begin our 'duty', our responsibility, to help whatever government is elected even to being 'tough' with them. We must, never again, stand aside and leave our country to the influence of the rich, powerful and corrupt minority. That is DEMOCRACY in action.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    11:18am
    Clearly you have forgotten YOUR responsibility to this country travelman, since you apparently think it's fine to wipe out the livelihood of hundreds of thousands who DIDN'T forget, but worked their guts out and sacrificed to avoid - as far as they were able - being a burden on taxpayers in retirement. You apparently think it's fine to transfer all the wealth from shareholding from battlers to the wealthy and privileged and make it uneconomical for battlers to invest in shares ever again. And you apparently think it fine to deprive Australian companies of the investment capital that for decades has driven employment growth and increasing tax revenues. You obviously either don't care, or don't have the sense to figure out that if people can't invest profitably in shares, they spend less and there is both less economic and job growth and less tax revenue overall.

    We HAVE to have a majority of independents, because the Coalition has proved a disaster (though this biased report proves nothing!), and the ALP will clearly be far, far worse - as any intelligent Australian can see just by considering the lies they have told, basing a policy on outdated 2014-5 statistics and falsely claiming to be ''targeting the wealthy'' when in fact the policy lets the wealthy keep 100% of their credits and only robs those struggling on incomes below the tax threshold. And then they add insult to injury by excusing their treachery with claims that low-income retirees don't pay tax! We save the country over $40,000 a year by being self-funded. We pay GST and fuel tax and rates and a host of other indirect taxes FROM OUR OWN RESOURCES - not out of handouts from other taxpayers. We paid tax for 40-50 years to become self-funded in the first place. And now the ''entitled'' pensioners claim they ''earned their pension by working for decades'' but then scream that others who worked for decades are not even entitled to a fair tax deal and the tiny refund that ENABLES them to remain self-funded and not a burden on the country.

    Point the finger back at yourself, travelman. Because I didn't neglect my responsibility to the country. But those of us who worked our guts out and sacrificed greatly to do what the government said we MUST do for the future of the nation are now being cruelly threatened with the demolition of our income, not just until we yield and claim a pension, BUT FOR LIFE. While those who put their hands out - whether they needed to or whether they merely manipulated to create the appearance of need - get TRIPLE HANDOUTS.

    The only people neglecting their responsibility for this country are the ALP leaders AND THEIR SUPPORTERS.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    1:51pm
    Spot on traveller.
    Indeed the voters have allowed themselves to be led by the media barons who are at the head of the top end of town and tweaking the 'news' to get their team back in. In dictatorships they call that PROPAGANDA. The problem is voters have no idea they are being milked.
    It is our fault.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:48pm
    Before you decide on labor....come to my facebook page (or I can email you) the treason that they’ve been committing against our true Constitution and us for 100 years. *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:13pm
    Labor has been committing treason? What about the current government selling us out to the coal industry, selling our framing land, giving the rich the money it should have given to struggling Australians, flogging our LNG assets to foreigners. The list is endless.
    You have a cheek making a claim like that Sweet Pea and I have to wonder if you are representing the LNP version of GetUp. You'll need to start with the facts, the truth and by looking at the sins of both sides including the current government owned by the top end of town doing business FOR IT.
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2018
    8:27am
    Politicians of all persuasions are committing treason, Mick. Labor and LNP - all the same. Equally poisonous and evil.
    Ted Wards
    10th Dec 2018
    11:25am
    I always vote independent, however I check first to see which party gets the preference if that candidate does not win. Sometimes you think your voting independent but in fact your preferential votes go to one of the two main parities. Perhaps its time to look at our system and not have the two party preferred system. We need stronger parties with better views not so self centric!
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    11:28am
    Who ever you vote for it will be either of the major parties.
    Triss
    10th Dec 2018
    12:08pm
    A party's preference vote is only a suggestion to people who can't be bothered to think for themselves, Ted Wards. Only you decide who your votes go to, a politicial party cannot take your vote and redirect it.
    AutumnOz
    10th Dec 2018
    1:40pm
    Ted Wards and Geezer, check out how the preferential voting system works and you will find that YOU are the person who decides where your preferences go not the person you place at No. 1 on the voting paper.
    If that person decided where you preference went there would be no point in having more than two or three candidates on the paper.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    1:54pm
    The system, from memory, was changed for the lower house last time around Ted. You now make your choices in the order YOU want. In the past the party used to allocate your vote to whoever they wanted to. Its a wonderful change and I'm not sure if it has been prostituted yet. Give the bastards time.
    Retired Knowall
    10th Dec 2018
    4:24pm
    Here is YOUR chance to make your vote count Ted, Vote Below the line and allocate your preferences as you see fit.
    My suggestion is you put the Lobor, Greens and LNP LAST.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:49pm
    They all give prefs. There’s another option that gives zero prefs and cleans up OZ! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Old Man
    10th Dec 2018
    11:30am
    I have only a small reservation about the inevitable Labor government, it's the proposal to get illegal immigrants off Nauru and Manus Island. These people are not refugees under the true definition of refugees and are, in fact, illegal immigrants who have been sent to Nauru or Manus Island. Where my concern lies is the proposal to have two doctors in Australia, without examining the patient, overruling doctors at those detention centres.

    The proposed changes have been dressed up as having to do with the children when the actual changes do not differentiate between any age group. In any event, there are currently 10 children on Nauru, none on Manus Island, 4 of whom will be transferred to the USA shortly and 4 whose parents have chosen to remain on Nauru.

    There has never been any complaints about the quality of the medical staff on Nauru or Manus Island so how can 2 doctors in Australia claim to be better placed to overrule other medical staff who have actually examined the patient. But wait, there's more. When Phelps stood for Wentworth, one of her policies was to get the people off Nauru. Remind me again, what is her career? Oh, that's right, she's a doctor of medicine. But she's only one so there will need to be another doctor to support her and, surprise, surprise, not a million miles away we have the leader of the Greens, Di Natale, also a doctor of medicine who wants to get people off Nauru. Too coincidental or is my cynicism too out there?
    jackie
    10th Dec 2018
    11:48am
    Old Man....Don't you ever wonder who has pocketed all the money that taxes cost to keep refugees in Nauru and Manus Island? I would have been cheaper for put them all in a 5 star motel in Australia.

    There are more illegals living and working in Australia that arrived by plane.

    Thousands of illegals working on Australian farms where they are being used as slave labour.

    It's interesting how our Government turns a blind eye to this but not boat people.

    I remember a time during the 70s when boat people were embraced in Australia and received so much help by Australians that were less well off than what they are today.

    No one ever called them illegals even when they introduced drugs into the country.

    Australians are over the Liberal fear mongering and blame games. Especially, when they worship fossil fuels at the expense of future generations.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:13pm
    They are refugees if they have been vetted and proven to be refugees, OM.. the government agencies perform that job.... and it isn't just a blanket thing.

    Wait until Afghoff is completed, and wait for the rush of 'Ghans then... how gracious is our government going to be to 'our' ostensible allies there once the troops withdraw?
    Old Man
    10th Dec 2018
    12:18pm
    Thank you jackie, I presume your boat people in the '70's were those fleeing from Vietnam. That was a wholly different scenario to what happened when 50,000 illegal immigrants were allowed to enter Australia. You may recall that there was the Vietnam conflict where Australia sent about 60,000 troops to support the South Vietnamese against the North Vietnamese who eventually prevailed. South Vietnamese were being persecuted and some were executed as an aftermath of that conflict. Australia owed those people a debt because of their support and welcomed them as allies.

    If Labor had not opened the borders and allowed illegal immigrants in, there would not have been our taxes used to keep people on Nauru and Manus Island, detention centres opened by Rudd and his second government.

    I don't agree that there are "thousands of illegals working on Australian farms where they are being used as slave labour". Immigration officials are constantly seeking out those who overstay their visas so I can't see where "our Government turns a blind eye to this but not boat people."

    I wouldn't say that fossil fuels are "worshipped" but I will point out that even if Labor, and their Greens allies, get to 50% renewables there will still be the other 50% of electricity supplied by fossil fuels.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    12:19pm
    I wish people in Australia were looked after as well as those on Manus Island and Nauru. A friend of mine works out there and they just cant believe what we give these people. He tells me if the government gave everyone in Australia the same we would have been broke years ago.
    Old Man
    10th Dec 2018
    12:23pm
    Sorry, Bob, those people who have tried to enter Australia illegally may have refugee status elsewhere but they don't have refugee status in Australia. Australia takes a very high share of refugees, per capita, and we do so in an orderly fashion. We have representatives in refugee camps vetting people to ascertain if they should be brought to Australia and, if approved, they are placed in a queue. Those who choose to pay people smugglers and try to arrive without papers are doing so illegally.
    jackie
    10th Dec 2018
    12:49pm
    Old Man....Yes Vietnamese boat people were allowed to enter Australia because Australia felt obligated to what it did.

    Don't you think Australia should feel obligated to those from the MIddle East too?


    Muslims have lived here since white settlement and never were a threat to Australia.
    Triss
    10th Dec 2018
    12:58pm
    I agree with you, OG. People held in immigration detention centres entitled to a range of services, accommodation, three meals per day with halal, kosher, vegetarian options, prayer rooms and religious services, television, library,telephones, computers, excursions, visiting hairdressers, clothing, toiletries, etc.
    How long can Australia go on supplying this before we go broke. This is why pensioners and the disabled get cuts to their benefits.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    1:57pm
    I need to check my temperature because I am again agreeing with OM. Frightening.
    I'm not sure you'll agree with Shorten OM if he increases taxes on the rich and makes transfer pricing and offshore tax havens illegal.
    If Shorten manages those things I'll stop voting Independent until the party goes stale or betrays the country. That happens in time no matter who is in power.
    Old Man
    10th Dec 2018
    4:22pm
    MICK, I don't always agree with a government, regardless of which one it is, but I am pragmatic enough to realise that if a government is not doing what the majority of voters want then they get put out. Remember, an opposition doesn't get elected, it's a government that gets thrown out. The current government has made mistakes as the incoming government will make mistakes. We're not rich nor do we have offshore tax havens so if Labor does what you suggest then DILLIGAF. You see, MICK, the average voter has a lot of self interest in their vote and if something doesn't affect them it's usually ignored.
    Old Man
    10th Dec 2018
    4:32pm
    Australia is allowing refugees from the Middle East, jackie, and most of them are followers of Allah. Those who do arrive here after applying, being investigated and approved are made most welcome. As has been said countless time,jackie, not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims. We want to be able to keep the suspected terrorists out and those arriving illegally, without papers, cannot be verified as being legitimate refugees. Remember, jackie, once a refugee has fled the land where their life is endangered and arrives in a country where they are safe, that should be the end of their flight and the start of being accepted into a country which will accept them.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:42pm
    Voters are easily led. That's where media propaganda plays a part. When Abbott was put into office it was all one way traffic. I remember. When Gillard was crucified the media led by Alan Jones was at it again. Balance? That's when you walk along fence palings isn't it?

    You can't honesty even suggest the current batch is honest. It is so conflicted that they can't hide it. Tax cuts for the rich, coal fired power generators every few months, sell the ABC (softly softly on that one) and fund an Adani rail link. And more.

    I have left views because PEOPLE need to come first, not business which does quite nicely. It may seem a very socialist view to you but a SOCIETY is made up of all of the parts. We'll always have our wealthy and our poor and I accept that. What I will never accept is that the top wants slaves again and wants to live in opulent wealth. Australia has never been like that and the expression 'a fair go' came from the fact that ordinary people were not screwed and driven into poverty like they have been since Abbott was put into office.
    Don't get me going OM. Offshore tax havens are fake devices to force average citizens to pay taxes for them. Same deal with tax cuts for the top end who consider a tax rate of zero to be the correct rate....for them.
    We live in AUSTRALIA, not some third world ghetto. Theft by the top has become something to be ignored and I hope Labor has the guts to take on the wealth with their printing presses and TV dominance as they run their 'we'll be ruined' BS. They will.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:51pm
    Don’t vote for anyone..but still have your say to clean up OZ! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    SFR
    10th Dec 2018
    11:33am
    Ted Wards your preferences go to whomever YOU decide. Totally up to you on how you fill out your ballot. Don't preference from any "how to vote" cards. If you don't like the candidates on your card then don't fill it out or donkey vote.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:52pm
    That’s a good idea but a waste of a voice. *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament

    10th Dec 2018
    11:36am
    We need a Paris or a Trump
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    11:47am
    Don't worry we will get one.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:14pm
    Indeed we will......
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:42pm
    Paris Hilton? Only if she doesn't talk....
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    1:59pm
    We've had a Trump look alike. His name was Abbott. Lied about most everything. Sold out the country to his coal mates.
    Take my word for it, Trump is bad news. So was Abbott. He will not be back!
    Noodles
    10th Dec 2018
    2:02pm
    better the devil you know than the devil you don't!!!
    Retired Knowall
    10th Dec 2018
    4:28pm
    Why do we need a Devil?
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:53pm
    WE the people can get whom ever we like! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    9:48pm
    Big mistake looking for a Trump who is likely to be impeached soon.
    Pushkin2
    10th Dec 2018
    11:47am
    It's so easy to blame politicians when things look bad when it's the voters who should take the blame for putting them there in the first place. Such is the cost of democracy, but look around you, it's way cheaper than any other system!
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:17pm
    Yes - a small group of armed men should have stormed Parliament and turned out the traitors in the government.... installed a party of the workers and soldiers.....

    Jeez - we've already got Bolshevism here (the rule of the minority party) with the business groups with under 200 members telling government what to do .. bloody Bolshie Libs....

    I haven't voted major party for years now - the process is slow.... BTW one of the causes of armed insurrection is the perception that the political process is too slow to bring about meaningful change....
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    2:00pm
    Remember the News slogan "Brian told me"? That's the difference between voting for the right person and voting for a puppet put into office by the rich to do their business. How do you think we got coal man Tony?
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:54pm
    Exactly. Helps though if voters know actual truths! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    darcy
    11th Dec 2018
    8:04am
    100% correct Pushkin. It's about time the voting public looked in the mirror.
    OnlyDaughter
    10th Dec 2018
    11:51am
    I think we will see a split in the Liberals with the far right forming its own party. If this far right party survives the first couple of years, I think it will merge with One Nation and when they have sufficient numbers, it will attempt to form a coalition with the Nats in order to gain government.As far as the “normal” Liberals Party is concerned, centre right people will continue to stand, get elected and the party will eventually recover but if and when it loses the support of the National Party, it,will not gain sufficient numbers to govern alone.

    As far as the Labor Party is concerned, they no longer represent traditional Labor supporters and in my opinion are Liberal Lite. Labor is far more like the original Liberal Party than the original Labor Party. Labor is just as much a supporter of the big end of town as the current government and like the current government only pays lip service to everyday working Australians. Yes, Labor is financially supporter to some extent by the dreaded Unions, but with a couple of exceptions, unions are toothless tigers. You only have to think back to the 1970s to realise that.
    Personally I don’t think that any politicians have the answers to the problems this country faces. They get elected with the highest ideals and the greatest of intentions and the political system grinds them down as they do deals and make alliances to get what they want.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    12:18pm
    By George - you're my doppelganger.... are you by any chance my only daughter?
    Arisaid
    10th Dec 2018
    12:24pm
    Amen
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    2:01pm
    We already have a split. Its called split personality.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:55pm
    Help get Australia back! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    11:59am
    The Liberal Party will do a Phoenix after Labor has held the reins long enough with their batty social policies, enough to show the struggling masses that they have the same focus on the overall good for the people and nation.

    Labor needs to get over its obsession with silly 'equality by numbers' policies and get on with governing for all equally, and especially it needs to stop the war on men and boys based on silly social theories unproven ... that will be the reason the Liberals get another shot after one or two elections.

    Poor Fellow, My Country - with a choice like we have....
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    2:05pm
    Once the likes of Abbott, Morrison, Corman, Cash, Pyne and a heap more are gone the party will rebuild itself.
    One of the things it is going to have to address is a fair carve up of the national wealth and I am not sure that the party's wealthy supporters and vested interests will agree to that. Poverty is something which kills a party and starts revolutions. Hungry people hate you when you give everything to a handful of people. Ask the French. Now in progress.
    Australia does not need anarchy in the streets but it will get this unless government stops the wealthy from exporting income and paying a low percentage in tax.
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    3:12pm
    Trebor, of course it should be 50/50 male and female in parliament. Women make up at least half the population and there are sufficient clever women to balance parliament, look at the LNP if you think that denying that works! Men and boys are just as important as women and girls but I fail to see your point there. I prefer most of what you say to the likes of OG, OGR, Old Man, Adrianus, etc.
    apologies if I have misinterpreted what you are saying!
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:56pm
    WE can get rid of both parties! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    7:03pm
    Disagree totally, Paddington - the makeup of our Parliament should be at the discretion of the voting public... under no circumstances should any quota be forced on us..... if you start with one social group, you must eventually include all others.. meanwhile the nation goes down the tubes over silly ideological stances having nothing to do with genuine merit or running of the nation for its people.

    Quotas are, in fact, a denial of genuine merit... and this silly stance will be the ruin of Labor ....
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    8:28pm
    Trebor, you really think it is not biased at the moment in the liberal party against women?
    There are plenty of worthy women just as many as men. If you stack the books against them they cannot compete. When you go for a job and you are old they do not tell you they will not hire you because of your age but they just hire a younger person. They don’t announce it is ageism. Same with politics they have contenders but they do not pick the female no matter how good she is. Looks is another way people are discriminated against. It is not stated but often merit does not come into it.
    On here there seems to be a group of guys who have had bad experiences with women and it has coloured their ability to be fair and just. People have biases.
    Yes, there needs to be all groups represented, including Aborigines, Muslims, gays, etc.
    But half still need to be women and subgroups there to encompass the varied people who live in Australia. It is no longer a patriarchal society, women are now equals.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    12:05am
    While I disagree with 'head office' of a ;party parachuting its favourite sons and daughters into seats - I believe it should be entirely up to the branch which person they put up for election.

    Quotas do not help anyone in reality and are an admission of inferiority of certain groups being artificially promoted....

    Under a total branch selection it is possible to have a majority women - if the electorate will vote for them... but it is also possible to have a majority of men.... same/same..... but at the end of the day it MUST be up to the electorate entirely and not via force feeding of specific type candidates.

    Trebor Party policy is that everyone can have a shot at the spot.... and head office will not over-rule branches unless they put up absolute Stalinists or Nazis or whatever... anyone rabidly attached to an ideology is not welcome... self-servers are not welcome.... work for the nation as a whole or do not apply..

    Women have accepted artificial advancement for nearly forty years now - when is it time to call quits and make it or not on your own merit alone?
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    8:01am
    TREBOR we have had far too many "chosen" representatives placed in safe seats to do deals on our behalf, or maybe the behalf of the bank or corporation they really work for, and then resign to go back to the rewards offered. That has to end.
    Karl
    10th Dec 2018
    12:10pm
    The only way to have long term stability is to give either of the major parties, either Labor or Liberal/Nationals, a good majority. Voting for independents and minor parties is a recipe for continuing instability. The Greens exist in an alternate reality, and will ultimately go the same way as their predecessors the Australian Democrats.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    2:07pm
    Yes and no. Godd for the incumbent government unless we have like the current rats who want to rape society and give the 1% everything. Then you get a rubber stamp.
    Think Tony Abbott who repealed some 1200 bits of legislation from the previous Labor governments. Only a vandal would do this and only a right wing government has ever done that.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:57pm
    Or give the treasonous 2..no votes! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    9:23pm
    Mick, Labor is giving the 1% everything. Why else would they force battlers to sell their shares at a huge loss and let the rich retain their franking credits? Nobody could possibly conceive a more certain plan to rob the peasants and feed the rich. Only Shorten and Co are very clever LIARS. They fool a lot of blind fools.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    7:54am
    Battlers do NOT have to sell their shares at huge loss. I don't understand your reasoning. Franking credits make up the smaller percentage of the returns you make.
    I do not agree with what Shorten is doing but it appears this is a wider plan from BOTH parties to destitute retirees to shake out boomer wealth accumulated over a lifetime. This is genY getting their hands on the dough.

    The overriding question is do you vote Liberal and put the current lying bastards back into power to push their company tax cuts and further personal tax cuts for the rich through plus more huge debt for the country. You need to recognise Shorten may not even get in and then you'll have real issue and may well have to sell your shares. Both sides want you to spend the kids' inheritance on survival and you are correct. GenY at work methinks.
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2018
    1:08pm
    Mick, franking credits make up around 30% of returns. That's NOT a small amount for someone whose income is less than an aged pension. They WILL have to sell their shares at a loss. Even people with incomes of $60K a year can't tolerate that kind of loss of income. And share values will fall, inevitably. Unemployment will rise. Tax revenues will fall. And ultimately the whole nation will suffer.

    I'll vote independent in the hope of keeping the bastards honest, but I see LNP as the lesser of the two evils, as Labor is taking much more from the average Aussie and giving much more to the rich, but they are doing it in a more underhanded way and deceiving the masses. Believe me when I say Labor will do far more harm than the current evil mob.
    Ahjay
    10th Dec 2018
    12:11pm
    Whilst the LNP continue to follow the policies of the H.R.Nicholls Society, with it's intention of reducing the workers of this country to serfdom, I could never give them my vote or my preference. Independent for me.

    The big end of town have already stolen enough from the workers of this country as was exposed in the Banking Royal Commission that the LNP was dragged, kicking and screaming to set up.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    12:22pm
    What about all those millions who our banks have helped get to where they are today with owing their own homes and other investments? RC was just a small drop in the ocean mainly from those who took big risks and were looking to blame their bank or financial institution rather than themselves for being too greedy.
    Triss
    10th Dec 2018
    1:03pm
    "owing their own homes" Dead right there, OG.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    2:10pm
    Correct Ahjay.
    An LNP government thinks giving all wealth to the 1% and then throwing the bottom end out of jobs is the way to go. Keep 'em poor and desperate and you get cheap slaves to work for you.
    What the mentally inept in the LNP forget is that people who have no money cannot buy the goods and services of the wealthy business owners. Tell me how this works!
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    2:24pm
    Part of their job and to earn profit, OG - righteously... thieving is not part of their job...

    Just because a cop rescues a puppy from a flood doesn't mean he should be exempted from punishment for being on the take...
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:38pm
    Independants and minors can do absolutely nothing to stop the 2 majors! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:58pm
    Independants are attached to the same ratwheel as 2 majors! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Blue Trumpy
    10th Dec 2018
    1:07pm
    A vote for the Australian Conservatives or Pauline Hanson in the Senate will help to keep whoever is controlling the lower house honest.
    Retired Knowall
    10th Dec 2018
    4:31pm
    When I thought comments could not get any worse.....I read this.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:37pm
    The minors can do absolutely nothing....to stop the 2 majors! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    9:43pm
    Blue Trumpy, ha ha!
    First of all, she would have to grow a brain. Intelligent women are needed not airheads like her. She has failed to grow in 20 years. She is still a racist with zero intelligence.
    She is a joke!
    udo1103
    10th Dec 2018
    1:08pm
    it's a shame, that HOWARD didn't give PETER COSTELLO the opportunity to become prime minister...we would have had a prosperous time and good future...
    Ahjay
    10th Dec 2018
    1:49pm
    He was the founder of the H R Nicholls Society.
    We would all be enslaved by now!
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    2:11pm
    $5000 Baby Bones man? Never hear the right wing media bring that one up. Not sure if Costello could have handled the tough times as he would have had to get out of his hammock.
    Rae
    10th Dec 2018
    3:35pm
    The Guy who sold our gold at $17 a gram haha. I did my gold buying then. Every textbook ever says buy gold at $US 300 an ounce.

    I like Costello but he was no investor and he and Howard sold a lot of our really good income earning assets leaving us to buy and sell houses and coffee to each other.

    I think they worked for the Elite.

    In fact all of them from Fraser on have worked for the Elite.

    I'd like my baby bonus, house grant, childcare rebate, and other payments I never got. Would go a long way towards that $12000 annually I have to make extra now thanks to bloody Hockey, Abbott and Morrison.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    3:42pm
    Yes Costello wouldnt have wasted billions like Rudd at a time when we have full employment due to the mining boom and huge demand from China
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:50pm
    Yes Rae....the same guy who sold off our LNG assets (Gorgon - third biggest deposit on the planet). Now we have no gas! Lets destroy irreplaceable farming land by fracking?

    It was the Howard government which did this to us.

    I've thought about this of late and I heard Howard talk on the 7:30 Report recently. It occurred to me that his government may have flogged our LNG so that the coal industry would have no competitor. No competition now, only solar....and look at what this lot have been trying to do to renewable energy for the past 6 years.

    If the above is true then this is a case TREASON and Howard needs to be jailed if he did what I am thinking he may have done.
    Proving such a betrayal is the hard part but LNP behaviour is starting to form a pattern.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    5:15pm
    Mick we have more gas than we will ever need but we now have to pay world prices for it.
    Rae
    10th Dec 2018
    5:31pm
    Whitlam's idea of nationalising the mines, gas fields and uranium and building the pipeline and uranium processing plant would have had us looking pretty rich right now. I'd call it treason. Yes definitely.

    No much better to let 85% of other countries have the profits. The Elite of course. Those that now own it all instead of the public for the Common wealth.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:36pm
    There’s a whole new option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-parliament
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:18pm
    We have to pay more OG. Our LNG is cheaper in Asia (retail price) than we could get it for. That's what the Howard government did to us and the current LNP rats want to frack our farming land because, wait for it, "WE HAVE NO GAS".
    What's the definition of treason?
    Easy Rider
    10th Dec 2018
    1:35pm
    You think things are crook in Canberra now?...Just wail until Bill and his rabble are on the top perch.....absolutely terrifying. The only positive is Labor will be thrown out on t
    heir ear after a couple years and hopefully the right side of spectrum will have had a chance to regroup...btw...Jullie "hand me the checkbook" Bishop...please no!
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    2:18pm
    Yea of few facts or historical information.

    A few things to put your rusted on comment into perspective:

    1. The GFC hit just after Labor came to office. Remember?
    2. Labor spent a heap of dough on keeping Australians employed when the rest of the world was sacking its citizens.
    3. Labor's had gotten its spending under control the last year in office and they ultimately left office with a debt of $148 billion.

    4. The LNP has achieved nix in 6 years of government other than running the debt up to almost $600 billion. The official ATO figure is $513 billion.
    5. The LNP has ZERO to show for the huge increase in debt other than an NBN which is substandard and went way over budget because Turnbull stuffed it up, two Roayal Commissions (Labor and Unions) which produced no charges becasue they were political witch hunts.

    Please tell me about how Labor is going to 'ruuuuuin us'. You sound like an employ when the lowest paid get a $10 a week wage increase. Disgraceful.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    3:26pm
    Mick Labor handled the GFC very badly as we are still paying for their mistake with low wages and no industry as we have priced ourselves out of the world market. GFC2 is not going to be pretty but it will be worse under a Labor government as they simply wont be able to spend their way out of it and have to let the excesses of the last 23 years finally flush out of the system.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    3:30pm
    The last year when labor left office , th deficit was at a record $43 billion
    MICK lying through his teeth
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:53pm
    OG - how else should they have handled it? Do you think the LNP could have done anything different. We both know the LNP would have stood by as Australians were put out of work and our economy ground to a halt as it has done in other countries.
    Labor excesses? Ha ha ha. Tell readers about the almost $600 billion in debt the LNP have run up when Labor left a debt of $148 billion DURING the GFC years.
    You have nowhere to go with your dishonest propaganda OG. Fake!
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    5:13pm
    Mick the rich got richer and the poor got poorer during the last GFC here in Australia.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:34pm
    There is another option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Easy Rider
    10th Dec 2018
    6:58pm
    MICK...your comment "you sound like an employ (sic) when the lowest paid get $10 wage increase. Disgraceful." Sorry to be the one to break it to you, MICK but that makes ZERO sense...but then again, neither
    does the rest of your drivel.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:20pm
    OG - the rich actuall got a lot poorer during the GFC but since then they have fully recovered all their losses and had a significant tax cut thrown in as well.

    Easy Rider - go pick up your pay cheque from party HQ.
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2018
    8:31am
    Mick, the rich are sitting on the promise of a windfall if the ALP win. I suspect the franking credit policy was actually designed to win the votes of the wealthy. They will be HUGE winners from it, while average Australians are slaughtered.
    Nomad1946
    10th Dec 2018
    2:21pm
    I sincerely hope that the shorten crew does NOT get to govern!! Too many unknowns, Australia does not need a socialist government, he did promise to “run the country like a union” with everyone on strike, who’s going to run the country?
    My local Fed member is an Honest, Caring, Hard Working man who is extremely active in every part of our community.
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    2:37pm
    You have nothing to fear but fear itself - do not take counsel of your fears.....
    Ahjay
    10th Dec 2018
    2:49pm
    Morrison has parliament on strike. How many sitting days between now and the election?

    The problem being the thieves are getting paid by us to do nothing. Talk about union rorts.
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    3:24pm
    Unknown what? Strike?
    Please name your federal member because I may agree.
    In Victoria recently, some very fine liberal people paid the price of what LNP stands for in the minds and hearts of people at the moment.
    The one that comes to mind is the liberal guy who never had a bad word to say to or about anyone and sat at the table on election night with the commentators. He would probably have been the new liberal leader for Victoria as well.
    Blue ribbon liberal seats were lost.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    3:27pm
    Agree Nomad. Shorten is will destroy this country
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:54pm
    Abbott and Turnbull already have destroyed it. Ask anybody other than wealthy citizens.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    5:02pm
    Ah Mick you aint seen nothing yet and lets hope sense prevails and people don't vote in labor.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    5:09pm
    Really? I though both the above have all but destituted our country.
    What you are worried about is that rich Australians and multinationals may actually have to pay a fair share of tax. Coming!

    Don't vote LNP unless you want slavery to return. Oh yes....you do OG.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:33pm
    There is another option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    7:14pm
    I'd like a list of how Billy Shorten And The Feminist Party, Australian Tour 2019 -202?, will go about ruining the country....

    Lay it out for us chapter and verse....

    I'll start:-

    a) they will retain the addiction to 'globalism' and enrichment of the fat cats,
    b) they will retain the addiction to privatisation perpetuating built-in rising costs of living,
    c) they will do nothing to alter any of the locked-in contracts Morrison and Parasites will sign up to,
    d) they will fund more and more commissions to exercise uberkontrol outside of law over more and more parts of daily life to suit a screeching minority.
    e) they will continue their Feminist war on men and boys, to the detriment of men, women and children across the nation, and for no positive outcome,
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:26pm
    What they won't do TREBOR is continue to enrich the top end of town. Shorten said he would go after Trusts (good), put an end to negative gearing deductions as they currently apply (good) and work on establishing a fairer society.
    How your list plays out I have no idea but the alternative is a dictatorship where rich people have personal slaves. Us.
    Pick your poison! Personally I'd be thinking remove the laws the LNP have put in place to silence us, make the ABC unsellable for any government and work on taxing those who can legally avoid the tax system as a starter.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    12:08am
    Hmm 'tax avoidance levy' for those turning over a heap and paying little tax... hmmmm.... amazing how some don't earn enough to eat and run a car and own a house but still have heaps to play with....
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    12:13am
    Sorry, Mick - I was thinking of the globalist fat cats.....not the local ones....rusts are long overdue for a solid check, and NG + concessional CG is ridiculous.... DI needs a review by Shorten as you and OGR say, with perhaps a lower end or simply review all in the ATO and apply the rules for income tax... the whole thing is silly, really....

    I used to argue online with an accountant about trusts- the simple rule I applied was that trusts would not be in use if they did not produce favourable outcomes for income tax... and are thus a rort... it's frankly ridiculous that someone can pay their kids to go to school and cop a tax reduction for doing so.... rich man's rules for rich men.. all other pay cash....
    floss
    10th Dec 2018
    2:40pm
    Julie Bishop you get two for the price of one if you need the freeloading boy friend, at least the Libs are great sales people they sold Australia at a great discount.They have broken our country and then self destructed.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:56pm
    They have. Anything not bolted down and some things which are now foreign owned. My wife told me this morning that she read the Chinese own the 5 largest grazing properties in the country.
    Now selling off our food supply but the media never says boo!
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    4:58pm
    so your wife is a crazy leftie looney like you. how depressing to be you
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    5:11pm
    Do yourself a favour and get out of your Point Pier armchair and see what the real world looks like. They don't pay you enough to write the BS you produce. You have no credibility!
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:32pm
    There is another option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Triss
    10th Dec 2018
    6:47pm
    Watch your manners, Lothario.
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    3:00pm
    MICK 85% of our banking system is foreign owned.

    The bastards have sold everything. I just hope our young learn from the French. Their President capitulated nicely this morning.

    Having a reputation for lopping off big wigs heads is obviously not a bad thing.
    BERRYUPSET
    10th Dec 2018
    2:42pm
    Think `THE PARTY`S OVER `for the LIBS.......but I`ll vote for ANYONE but SHIFTY BILLY!!!
    DAMN RIGHT MATE!!
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    3:26pm
    Then don’t, vote for your best local rep with the best policies!
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    3:30pm
    yep ANYONE but Slimey Shorty
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    5:13pm
    I see where you are coming from BerryUpSet but step one is to get rid of the current dictatorship which is being built. Then add Independents into the mix. It is not possible to get to where you want to go without going via Labor.
    The upside is if many of the rats in the LNP may be gone after the election. The current needs them gone before we go broke!
    Adrianus
    10th Dec 2018
    5:20pm
    BERRYUPSET, I share your dilemma. I dread the thought of the people smugglers taking over our immigration department once again. I dread the thought of our national debt doubling. I also am not looking forward to business grinding to a halt and the only thing stopping the unemployment figure reaching double digits is the growth of the public service.

    Try not to be too down about the future because it may never happen. Those eight older Australians who have put the Liberal Party on notice may eventually come to their senses.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:31pm
    There is another option! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:28pm
    Wondered when you'd turn up Adrianus. People smugglers? Expecting you to lament about pink batts and school halls. The normal troll comment by the look of it.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    12:16am
    Da boats.. Da Boats.. DA BOATS... everyone run screaming in headlong flight....

    Pink batts, school halls and Thommo in the Union... blah, blah, blah....

    I retain a memory for other things - the Atherton Tablelands Blackhawks crash for one.. and the Labor Minister who reduced spare parts and training time....
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    3:03pm
    People smugglers like the airlines dropping refugees at Mascot daily. Over 64 000 apparently but the Propaganda rags won't tell you that will they?
    Paddington
    10th Dec 2018
    3:01pm
    Victoria is an example of what people think of the present LNP. People are also horrified that they went home instead of tidying up debate on a few bills and making decisions on those. I suspect they rushed off because that may have led to a vote of no confidence and loss of government for them. People are not happy!
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    5:15pm
    Only look at the federal LNP. They demanded Labor vote for their dictatorship laws better known as new laws on terrorism....which they are not. Then they cut parliament short and shot through. This is their idea of proper government.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:29pm
    There is another option.....If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament! https://m.facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament

    10th Dec 2018
    3:19pm
    The choice is between LnP or Labor
    God help us if labor get in

    I'm voting for LnP the lesser of 2 evils
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    4:57pm
    What a surprise.
    You have to vote for your employer dear troll or your blood money will be cut off. What a piece of work you must be.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    5:00pm
    Well Mick you are even more diehard Labor so you are an even worse piece of wood.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    5:17pm
    Mick vs the LNP trolls. Two against one is a fair contest but I have the moral high ground because what I write is the facts. The crap coming from you two trolls is already well understood. I'll put it to the vote one day if you wish.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:26pm
    Actually there’s another option.....If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the entire federal parliament!
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    3:06pm
    Maybe there is another choice. Neither Party. They are both as bad as each other and none care about us. Time to not care about them.

    Why do you think socialism is worse than fascism? I've often wondered why people make that choice.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2018
    8:23am
    Labor are more successful at lying to the masses and conning the lower classes into THINKING Labor does more for them, Rae. They are masters of deception.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    5:20pm
    Funny you should mention..SACKING THE GOVERNMENT! Come visit https://m.facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament-522591114871106/?hc_location=ufi If you’d like to know how to do just that. ALL political parties / politicians are Constitutionally Illegal. Sacking the entire parliament..is the ONLY way to get rid of libs and labor! Independants and minors give preferences and can literally do nothing to stop the 2 majors! So come add your number to the exploding amount of people who’re aware now of all the governmental treason!
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    5:23pm
    Pretty well describes what we have. TREASON is the appropriate word.
    Adrianus
    10th Dec 2018
    5:57pm
    Talking to yourself again MICK?!
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    7:19pm
    Three against one now, Mick - they've got you surrounded... as a 101 Trooper (not mentioned in B of B) said - The Poor Bastards!

    Got 'em right where you want 'em...
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:30pm
    Adrianus - if the word sticks then wear it. Treason is the word!

    Not too worried no matter how many come at me TREBOR. The comments are devoid of anything other than lies and diversion to avoid the truth they cannot deflect from. I have their measure and three on one is getting closer to a fair debate. Chuckle....
    arbee
    10th Dec 2018
    5:23pm
    Australia's first trillion dollar deficit coming up with a shortarse government.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    5:29pm
    Absolutely

    Labor took us from being $70 billion negative debt to $170 billion in 6 years .
    When they were licked out , we were running annual deficits of $43 billion and an annual interest bill of $10 billion

    LnP stemmed the tide and will start reducing debt from 2021 down to zero in the next 2 terms if reelected

    Shorten on the other hand wants to borrow another $200 billion for renewables and his franking credit policy will cost us $10 billion a year, every year
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    6:00pm
    WE can fix Australia without the 2 majors! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    7:20pm
    Where are your workings on this, arbee, Lothie?
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:41pm
    Crap Lothario. You can't even get the figures right.
    If Rudd had not kick started renewables Australia would still be in the stone age and your employer would have built dozens of new coal fired power generators. It must get up your nose that this was cut off at the pass.
    My understanding of Shorten's battery commitment is $2000 subsidy for UP TO 100,000 batteries.
    You clearly are unable to do basic maths because you left school in primary school so I'll crunch the number for you. The cost of the batteries if 100,000 applications were received is 200,000,000. That's 200 million NOT 200 BILLION! 0.2 billion!
    The LNP may want to replace you as you have cooked the books. Ok, trying to deceive readers again. The norm.

    For the record the batteries will greatly stabilise the grid. FACT! And it will be the start of the end for the coal industry. Who needs new coal fired power generators other than to get us 20 years down the track when the coal mines can be shut down permanently.
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    9:45pm
    Oh Muck
    Please try and keep up
    The 200 billion is for investment your fuhrer wants to make in renewables power plants

    This is over and above his subsidies for pink batteries
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    7:59am
    The writings of a jerk. Absolute crap. Lets just run with company tax cuts to 15% for the donors and 40 new coal fired power stations. Tell me about 200 (fictitious) billion. The comment of a troll!
    Gee Whiz
    10th Dec 2018
    5:23pm
    Julie Bishop is nothing more than a flamboyant cloths horse. She has done nothing for this country and never will. She abuses her expense account shamefully and spits the dummy if she doesn't get her own way. A more poorer candidate for Prime Minister I couldn't imagine.


    All Julie Bishop has done is line her own pockets, seen the world first class, stayed in luxurious hotels with all the trimmings, used taxpayer money for personal gratification such as attending weddings, horse races, theatre shows, and cricket matches.

    Time to go Julie. You've over stayed your welcome.
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    6:01pm
    She’s no different to Turnbull! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Gee Whiz
    10th Dec 2018
    5:38pm
    I've often wondered if any of the political party morons ever read the comments on this page.

    If was running a political party and read these comments I would be scared s...less. But maybe the boofheads are so full of themselves they can't comprehend the coming revolt.

    Its already started in France and it will spread throughout the world. People are fed up with corrupt self serving politicans, their outrageous retirement benefits, the favoring of their rich mates, and their pandering to non tax paying foreign corporations.

    Viva le'France. Let the revolt begin.




    .
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    6:02pm
    We’re trying the less violent option first! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    7:24pm
    Allons, mes enfants! Au BHPstille!

    We've been trying the non-violent option for nearly a hundred years now... trouble is the cunning devils keep diluting the pot of hostility by bringing in uneddicated in our ways furruners by the plane-load... and giving them the vote after two years....

    Many such come from countries where, if you are a member of the 'radical left', you may well find your own corpse on the town garbage heap, your newspaper burned down, or a nice stay in the Last World equivalent of Git'mo..... water boarding sports for all...
    Mez
    10th Dec 2018
    5:46pm
    As a previously swinging voter and now a Centrist, I am pleased with Scomo's moves but not with the remainder of the party.
    Julie Bishop appears to have been a good choice but she had donated $10 million to the Clinton Foundation that funded Saudi Arabia and ISIS terrorists so .... NOT GOOD!
    I intended to vote Independents at the next Federal elections but now uncertain.
    Depends solely on the next few months but probably for the Independents!
    Gee Whiz
    10th Dec 2018
    5:59pm
    Way to go Mez. Independents and the minority parties. Even the Greens are now tainted by the deals they have done with the LNP and the ALP.


    Time to start afresh with new party's and new independents.
    Adrianus
    10th Dec 2018
    6:01pm
    Mez, that was Julia Gillard. Julie Bishop and Tony Abbott legally could not stop it. Just like they couldn't stop the $500m the Gillard Government donated to the Clinton administered Global Education Fund. By the way is Julia Gillard still chair of that fund, with her plush New York office?
    Anonymous
    10th Dec 2018
    6:01pm
    Mez - voting independent is a waste of your vote.

    Better to vote LnP. You dont want labor to get it through the back door. It would be a disaster
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    6:04pm
    The independants are all Constitutionally illegal and can do absolutely nothing to stop the 2 majors! *If you’d like to know how to get OZ back, our TRUE laws with the TRUE Constitution...get out of the U.N...get our referendums returned....there is a way to get it all. But...WE need numbers and yours would help...to sack the federal parliament ... facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    7:26pm
    Been firing an illumination round over the issue of 'locked-in deals' for two days now - so Saint Julia locked in a heap of cash to a false foundation..... just part of the job of undermining the potentially incoming party...
    Sundays
    10th Dec 2018
    7:57pm
    Miss Pea a misguided and ill thought out plan if ever there was one. What you’re suggesting is anarchy. I’m shocked that Facebook has allowed you to post such rubbish. The Governor
    General cant sack parliament because a few people lodge donkey votes. With parliament sacked who would run the country, pass supply bills, oversee defence and government services would all ground to a halt. Have you got a dictator in mind, will we all be taken from our beds to work in the countryside
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:43pm
    Good comment Mez.
    As usual Lothario and Adrianus running lies. You guys missed the pink batts and school halls again.
    SFR
    10th Dec 2018
    10:59pm
    Miis Pea, if the independents are illegal then how are they allowed to even register never mind run, get elected & sit in parliament.
    Please explain your comment.
    And the link to the FB page keeps telling me it's unavailable
    Miss Pea
    10th Dec 2018
    6:09pm
    People...Please be aware!! If you’re thinking about voting for Independents or minor parties at the next federal election....they are not aligned with OUR true Commonwealth Constitution. They are tied to the same rat wheel as the major parties (which are nothing more than USA registered corporations) under the Australia act..put in place in 1986 by labor! With labor overwriting the true Constitution....OUR rights and OUR decision making referendums were removed. We’ve been signed to the U.N. since 1945 by labor and Mass immigration shouldn’t happen without a people’s referendum!
    Independents can do nothing about fixing Australia! We have to sack the entire parliament first to get OUR country back facebook.com/Your-Will-Be-Done-Lets-sack-the-Parliament
    Sundays
    10th Dec 2018
    7:48pm
    Miss Pea, I’ve looked at your Facebook page. I’ve worked on elections and your sample ballot paper looks like a donkey vote to me. I don’t know where you get the idea that the Governor General would step in and sack the parliament, that’s just not how our democracy works. And after, they’ve all been sacked, then what? You have a dictator waiting in the wings perhaps
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:45pm
    Clive Palmer is available. Pauline Hanson could be the whip. And Christoper Pyne could be the (electric) Chair. The mind boggles.
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    8:07am
    Section 44ii of The Constitution allows for MPs to be charged with treason in the High Court. Hasn't happened because no prosecutor is game but one of these days someone will be pissed off enough to call it. We have several Federal and State PMs who need to answer questions about why they sold Australia out in my opinion.
    Miss Pea
    13th Dec 2018
    7:49pm
    This is not a donkey. I’m in with people who know the true constitutional laws...not what the govt tells you you should know. And just cause you work at polling doesn’t mean a thing! All minor parties are also Constitutionally illegal and can do nothing to stop the 2 majors! Our vote option is the only way to remove libs and labor by sacking the entire parliament to get them out. Treason has been committed by mainly labor by changing our Constitution without referendums and libs have just gone along with it. But the treason was first committed in 1907 when labor brought in pref voting. The GG steps in if we get numbers up...and then WE the people put people back in to work for US and this country. Our pollies are nothing but USA registered corporations since 1934. So learn the history!
    Charlie
    10th Dec 2018
    6:36pm
    Too much social engineering going on to let labor and Greens out of their cage just yet.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:46pm
    So you'll take the dictatorship in forming which has run up a huge national debt and hands money we do not have to the rich?
    Somebody tell me I'm dreamin'.........
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2018
    8:14am
    I don't want either, Mick. Not the dictatorship. Nor the social engineering that is wrecking the country. And NEITHER party can resolve the national debt, but Labor will take far more from battlers and give far more to the rich than LNP ever has. They just do it in more sinister and less obvious ways - and the lie more convincingly.

    Labor isn't for the average Australian. They don't just take from our hip pockets. They take opportunity and pride and self-respect. Look what they are doing to self-funded retirees - branding them ''rorters'' and turning the population against them with lies. Look what they are doing to working Australians. Positioning them - if they can't be wealthy - that they have to stop saving and retire on a pension or suffer the deprivation and abuse SFRs are suffering now from the ALP.

    Look what they are doing to people with traditional values and morals. Forcing photographers and bakers to service the demands of gays. Shouting for laws to force Christian schools to employ homosexual and transgender teachers. Forcing Safe Schools down the throats of our children, whether we agree with their extremist views or not.

    I despise the LNP, but Labor and the Greens threaten far worse.
    emjay
    10th Dec 2018
    6:51pm
    I cannot get the stories in print, only the oictures and comments. What could be wrong? Please help - someone - anyone.
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:48pm
    Try refreshing the page.
    If that does not work log out and then log back in.
    If that does not work clear cookies.
    Last step email YLC and tell them about your issue.
    Please tell me you are not on dial up.....
    Knows-a-lot
    10th Dec 2018
    6:57pm
    The Lieberal vermin are FINISHED - federally and here in NSW. May they be totally annihilated!
    TREBOR
    10th Dec 2018
    7:28pm
    Adios Saint Gladys .. watch that swinging door on your way out.... it's one they removed from a rail carriage so it would fit the stations.... they call the carriage with the doors removed a Slick, like a chopper with no doors.... damn this holding them back with bungee straps.. you can fit an extra man in without the weight of doors... dead or alive...
    MICK
    10th Dec 2018
    9:52pm
    In all fairness NSW state liberal did a good job at the start but of late they have signed away huge sums of public money with no accountability.
    I really did not appreciate state liberal signing up to rip down the Olympic Stadium at Homebush Bay. That is an utter waste to pander to a FEW business people. Nothing more. And then they did the same to a second stadium as well as create the western distrbutor blowout because they were too bloody lazy to read the contract, have it explained to them or employ somebody capable to vetting it properly. They just signed on the dotted line. Dumb arses for hire. They need to go!
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2018
    8:05am
    The latest crap I heard boggles the mind. $51 million to give stupid little packages of crap to new mothers. Why? How many taxpayers consider giving a new mother a toothbrush and a book for her baby a spending priority, when hundreds of thousands can't afford heating and tens of thousands are homeless? What a sad indictment of the shallowness and incompetence of people who are supposed to be ''leaders''.
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    8:16am
    NSW is theoretically broke. The revenue base is running on GST and stamp duty and that will end. They have sold everything and squandered the proceeds on developer mates as they always do. This time we have no resources left to recover once they move on to promised board directorships.

    11th Dec 2018
    2:34am
    He's a good one
    travelman
    11th Dec 2018
    1:16pm
    Thanks Mick. Your are one who understands. We have to be governed but it is time that we have a government that will have majority in the Lower House so that they can govern and if we do our part. Sure, many independents preference will go to a major party but to which party?
    Sounds more like a political poker game, don't you think? Also, the major parties will try to 'buy' independents or have we forgotten so soon Pauline Hanson and the Coalition. The more independents you have the greater the problems. Personally I would side with Miss Pea in a different style of Democracy, however my style would be no political parties and thus no party politics - it is, I believe, a vision that will one day be REALITY; it is not new idea for it was a reality in Greece in the 6th century BC and lasted 400 years, the country prospered for everyone and the nation lived in peace and contentment for everyone. The tragedy was that the people stopped being involved, they took their 'eye of the ball' and democracy was scuttled by, guess who? rising political parties and the rich and powerful. They were overwhelmed with greed and power and the nation disintegrated. Strange it may be but it is what is happening to this nation today and many other democracies - take a note of France, England and America - just to name three. Miss Pea, what you suggests is to take us back into a position of a vulnerable geographical position in Asia - threatened by China expansion and an unstable North Korea. Like it or not we need countries like America, NATO and the UN for defence. Also taking us back in time to our earlier Constitution with referendums would result in enormous cost,time consuming and ineffective - it was for this reason referendums were scrapped. No, we can only, in this technological world, go forward.
    Only Genuine Rainey seems to have a lot hate in him, thinking what was and not what must be. If we examine the whole situation on who to elect at the next election there is only two choices - I will say again -ONLY TWO CHOICES and we must, each of us, settle in our minds who we will vote for. For the Coalition you must consider their record over the last 6 years, has our country improved? You only need to examine the banks and who was really responsible for the Royal Commission, the energy crisis most people paying exorbitant costs for energy that are still going up in cost. What has been done about it? Unemployment - unemployment has gone down we are told but is it true? how many of the jobs claimed by the Government are full-time? By the government's own admission is that 70% are part time and that includes a job where as little as 2 hours work a week is seen as employment- Could you live on 2 hours pay a week? Housing - many of you will have children who cannot afford to buy a house so they have to rent; I have nephew and his wife in Sydney who rent half an old rickety house. In 2010 they were paying $450.00 a week - it would be dearer now. Neither State or Federal Governments have done little about it; the States failed to build public housing. What about the people, the homeless living on the streets, railway stations, parklands or cars. It would be easy for us to point the finger and say - its their problem, they should get a job. Easy to say but in Adelaide the youth unemployment in Elizabeth is at 23% and does not include adults who lost their jobs when the car industry failed and subsidiary companies who failed with them. Our unemployment situation is worse than we are told. Who do blame, State government or Federal Government or both? Pt Augusta is going to get a new larger Steel Smelting facility funded by that nice Indian gentleman who rescued the existing smelter that was about to close- going broke. The land for this new smelter is being bought by China? Should China be buying our country or should we supplying it as a lease or even donating it, better that than China taking over our country? What is the government doing about it? There are many other issues we need to consider in choosing our Government in 2019. To close remember this, Bill Shorten has never been a Prime Minister yet there those who are 'hell bent' in discrediting him and his party, mainly because it is what Scott Morrison and his party is doing, don't blame Scott Morrison you might say, but remember this the Coalition have been blaming the Labour Party since the got into power. Will they continue to blame the Labour Party if they get re-elected again? Personally, I would rather have a government that does not slander the opposition but instead gets on with the job of governing our country and we can be involved to help get out of this mess we are in. If you don't think we are in a mess I would ask what planet you are on - it is certainly not the one I am living on. The choice is only and CAN ONLY BE, there is no other option, the Coalition or the Labour Party. Don't waste your votes on independents unless you can preference them to the party you are voting for.
    Anonymous
    12th Dec 2018
    8:19am
    I agree with much of what you say, travelman, and certainly with your comments about blaming. But we HAVE TO HAVE INDEPENDENTS. They can only give preferences if you authorise then to. We need a majority of independents to stop the excesses that the major parties indulge in. They both have the same end goal - destroying society for the average Australian in order to cater to the greed and selfishness of the rich and powerful. They go about it in different ways, but they both chase the same objective.

    I was strongly in favour of the ALP until they disclosed a policy that is going to shift the balance of both wealth and power to the rich, and they spread the most hideous lies about their purpose and claimed justification. What they are threatening has horrendous implications for our economy and society. They are being patently dishonest about it and extremely arrogant. It's a political stunt that will do unbelievable harm to the economy and the society - and we can't afford to risk it.

    It's sad, because I detest the LNP and what they have done, but the ALP have shown their hand. They are not fit to govern. Their lies and arrogance evidence that they can't be trusted on even the most attractive-sounding policies.

    I would support a Labor majority if confident there would be enough Independents to stop them doing the hideous harm they threaten, but currently I think - despite my fear of them and my disgust at what they have done - the LNP is the lesser of two evils. But we MUST have a lot of independents to stop the extremes.

    You are right. We need BOTH major parties abolished. We need a party-free government.

    I'm sorry you think I harbour a lot of hate. You couldn't be more wrong. What I harbour is ANGER at massive deception, and frustration that so many are so blinded by selfishness or are just plain ignorant and disinterested in the facts. The prejudice against SFRs here is disgusting, and totally unwarranted because they are doing a lot of good for the budget, and often at high personal cost. Yet the majority here seem to favour wiping out their income and destroying everything they worked for over a lifetime. Why? Envy, or just ignorance of the facts that ought to be obvious to any intelligent being? Some say it's about other policies, but the fact is that other policies are irrelevant because the lies about franking credits evidence that NOTHING the say can be believed.

    I have had a very hard life, and my number one priority is a society in which the downtrodden are given a hand up - NOT a hand out, but a GENUINE opportunity to escape difficult circumstances, GENUINE support and help, and GENUINE respect.

    Neither party seems interested in improving the quality of society as a whole, but the ALP will certainly do far more harm than the LNP ever did. They lie convincingly, but they do LIE. If you doubt me, ask them why they base a policy on outdated 2014-5 figures. Ask an accountant what benefit someone with $2.4 million in super gets from franking credits under Labor's policy. Ask an accountant what franking credits someone on $250,000 a year can claim, and what a retired couple with just $900,000 in super and an income of $30,000 a year, and no other assets except a low value family home, can claim back from the 30% tax that's taken out of their income, reducing it to maybe $20,000 a year - with $0 concessions or pension benefits. Ask a financial adviser what will happen when 300,000 SFRs find their income demolished by Labor. Ask Labor politicians why the part pensioner with a $2 million house and $300,000 in investments should keep his franking credits but the SFR couple with $800,000 invested and a $500,000 house cannot. Ask how $8-12K a year refund of tax taken from dividends is more affordable than paying an SFR whose income is wiped out a pension for the rest of their life and funding their aged care.

    Why not ask Labor politicians some of these hard questions, instead of blindly swallowing their lies. Ask them who it is who gets millions in cash franking credit refunds and pays no tax, and why they aren't demanding the ATO audit this greedy person more thoroughly. Ask them what they are doing about laws that allow mega-millionaires to apparently rort a system that was designed to enable battlers to invest in shares and enjoy FAIR tax, and why they are ONLY stopping LOW INCOME EARNERS from claiming that benefit - NOT THE RICH. I've asked. THEY HANG UP ON YOU, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ANSWER. Their policy is a sham - a power play that has nothing to do with helping the budget (and won't) and everything to do with CONTROL.

    You bet I'm angry, travelman. Because the majority here, and Australia-wide, are supporting wiping out everything I've worked 50 years to achieve. And so far only TWO who are supporting this disgusting policy have even acknowledged it's wrong and expressed concern for the harm it will do to honest people who are making a huge contribution to the health of the budget by being self-funded.
    ex PS
    11th Dec 2018
    1:32pm
    And the best thing is they did it all to themselves, the ALP hardly had to lift a finger.
    Anonymous
    12th Dec 2018
    8:59am
    After Labor stuffed themselves all by themselves, and are doing it again with lies and harmful policies. Bottom line is NEITHER party is fit to govern.
    Adrianus
    12th Dec 2018
    10:46am
    Absolutely Rainey!!
    We have, us voters, done it all to ourselves by not having the collective intelligence to understand our multidimensional needs as opposed to fixating on a single idea, such as saving the planet or hating the banks, or hating the Catholic church, hating the unions etc.
    The Marxist movement within Labor is happy for a line to be drawn in the sand because while voters are divided it becomes easier to invoke a more religious type zeal, a tribal madness.
    We'll see on Sunday a definite "them and us culture" in the Labor Party as several Greens have boosted the Marxist ranks.
    Labor's approach to all things voters find intolerable is to accuse the other side of the same thing, such as having a left and a right in the LNP. Nothing could be further from the truth, but it buys more time for Labor to muscle up their grip on power.
    If Bill Shorten gets into the Lodge we will lose Australia to a point of no return and we will have no one to blame but ourselves. And to think all we wanted to do was get those 10 kids out of detention and save the planet!
    Anonymous
    13th Dec 2018
    6:47am
    No, Adrianus. It isn't about those 10 kids. It's about thinking anyone who has a dollar more than you is ''lucky'' and should have to share it. It's about thinking the world owes you because you THINK you had a hard time (but really, you probably don't know what 'hard' means). It's about ''poor me.. I'm entitled because I've had a rough trot'' and ''stuff you - because I choose to think you haven't'' on the one hand, and ''I'm privileged so I deserve to be leaner and I'm entitled to claim to be self-made and pretend everyone had it so good - so stuff you'' on the other. It's about rich and privileged vs battling honest workers and responsible savers vs bludgers and spendthrifts. Which should get the most gravy?

    With Libs, it's the rich and privileged. With Labor it's the rich and privileged PLUS bludgers and spendthrifts (which is why they run out of money so fast - catering to BOTH groups). And neither the battling worker and saver nor the genuinely disadvantaged matters to either side - nor to most of the population.

    I spoke about the awful crimes committed against native-born second and third generation WHITE Australian children and you know what? NOT ONE SINGLE COMMENT expressed dismay, disgust, or a view that THOSE people were entitled to some justice. Nobody gave a damn for them. So please don't tell me they are genuinely worried about 10 kids in detention. And if they wanted to save the planet, they'd stop running air conditioners and swimming pool filters and driving their precious darlings to school and throwing out appliances that still work to replace then with shiny new ones with fancy features.

    But when I spoke of the unfairness of Labor's franking credit policy, the Labor voters justified it - and continue to do so. See, it's all about envy and selfishness. And Labor is smart enough to know that and to know how to play on it. The LNP just doesn't get it. They are planning to run ads with SFRs hurt by Labor's proposal telling their story. They don't get that the voters DON'T GIVE A DAMN. Now if they ran ads telling taxpayers how much it costs to CONTINUE giving the credits to $250,000 a year salary earners and pensioners with $3 million dollar houses, THAT might win them some votes. Only BOTH parties are happy to indulge the $250,000 a year salary earner and the pensioner with a $3 million house.

    Labor will win the election, because they know how to play. And when they have done enough damage, the LNP will return and do more. If the LNP were to win the next one, they would continue to destroy our society as they have been doing for the past 6 years.

    Until we get rid of BOTH parties, there is no hope for this country. But there probably isn't anyway, because the greed plague can't be stopped.
    Adrianus
    13th Dec 2018
    8:58am
    Yes I agree, good post Rainey!
    Labor have been winning the political jousting since they adopted USA's identity politics concept. While the LNP are still unsure how to best handle identity politics. The problem is that we can always find someone who is better off financially and to many people this is important in a material world. I am still a little mentally scarred from the ACA episode which exposed a young family, 9 children, never been employed, on $150,000 pa from Centrelink and wanting a pay rise. The way for mum to get the pay rise was to have 3 more children. This family was not alone, there were several other families interviewed, all in the same situation. One Family on $200,000pa.
    So the concept of wealth redistribution is well and truly entrenched in the Australian character now. But how much further can this go??
    My understanding of this new concept we call "equality" is that when the scales tip too far to one group then we will need to start taxing the welfare recipients who blatantly abuse the system. My hope is that we always have people who have a desire to look after themselves and control their own destiny without being influenced by politicians who seek to destroy our dignity.
    Adrianus
    12th Dec 2018
    8:48am
    Scott Morrison will lead his party to victory at the next election. He is pragmatic about problem solving and has the leadership skills we need. On the other hand, Bill Shorten only knows one way forward and we still cannot get rid of that bad taste. They've kept fairly quiet so far, but the unions will eventually reveal themselves.
    According to a recent poll 3% less voters think Bill Shorten's franking credit policy is a good idea. As Barry White says, "I feel something moving."
    Scott Morrison is loving the underdog tag and will slowly but surely build momentum as the election gets closer.
    Knows-a-lot
    13th Dec 2018
    2:54pm
    Take your medication. You're having a delusional episode. Morriscum and his motley crew are FINISHED.
    mike
    12th Dec 2018
    3:14pm
    Julie Bishop has stolen millions from retirees and handed it over to the corrupt muslim dominated UN and other muslim countries in foreign aid. Nothing for our hard hit farmers. She has been called the wicked witch of the west although some seniors call her the wicked Bitch of the west. As for myself I think S Morrison is doing a great Job and its good to have a Christian leader for a change and shame on all those who are trying to pull him down.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2018
    8:24am
    You have odd ideas of what 'Christian' means if you think Morrison is anything remotely resembling a 'Christian', Mike.
    arbee75
    13th Dec 2018
    12:04pm
    I believe that the LNP should win the next two elections
    as the good folk who voted for them need at least 6 more years
    of tory punishment, lies together with broken promises.
    Cheers Rick B Warners Bay
    Knows-a-lot
    13th Dec 2018
    2:55pm
    Dream on...
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2018
    8:01am
    Well, I don't want another 6 years of tory punishment, arbee75, but I sure don't want 3 years of Labor destruction. They have shown their hand - out to demolish everything that is healthy and socially and economically beneficial.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2018
    11:06am
    We now have torys, a labour party and jails in Australia? Quite clearly immigration needs to be slowed.
    Miss Pea
    13th Dec 2018
    7:59pm
    I do not believe how blind you all are. There is a way to get OZ back into WE the people’s hands and you’re all just arguing who’s got the biggest! You’ve all completely lost the plot! This is about all of us...not each individual person....so if you’re Australian you’ll want the best for aussies! Sack the entire parliament as it’s the only way to get rid of libs and labor! Then WE put people in to work for US.....the true Constitutional way!!
    bob menzies
    13th Dec 2018
    8:24pm
    the thing that surprises me in all these comments is that the greens get 6% - are there that many stupid people in Australia - activist parties such as the greens should be no more than 2.5%. On a positive note they have been decimated in Tassis and recent Vic elections left them with just one and from what I am hearing they will lose 3 senators at next election (most likely to be replaced by independents of one form or another.
    Hastie would be a better choice than Bishop. Those favouring Bishop should remember that she dd not do particularly well in any domestic portfolio - OK good in foreign affairs BUT 4th rate compared to Nikki Haley (US equivalent)
    Adrianus
    14th Dec 2018
    10:37am
    There will be plenty of ex Greens at the Labor Party convention on Sunday. Of course it will be like a meeting of the self admiration society with Cocky Bill Shorten gloating about the polls.
    But when all the cheering and back slapping stops. What then?
    My guess is that a few Dorothy Dicksons will be keeping a lid on the questions of, "Can we please bring back the boats?" and "Can we please stop the coal?"
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2018
    1:39pm
    It's happening as we speak. Labor Party members are spotting the hypocricy and they're turning on themselves. Protesters have been carried off stage by security after interrupting Opposition leader Bill Shorten at the National Labor Conference in Adelaide.
    A man holding a flag opposing the Adani coal mine in Queensland approached the Labor leader as he took to the podium to address the party faithful.
    Mr Shorten told the protesters he would chat to them afterwards, telling the audience it would only help the Coalition.
    It aint easy lying to everyone when you recruit support from minority groups as Bill Shorten is learning.
    On the question of boats, another one of those (lets talk in private where I can wink and nudge.) ?


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