More women, no quotas and no trust in politics: Flash Poll

Older Australians want more women but no quotas, and they don’t trust politicians.

More women, no quotas and no trust in politics: Flash Poll

Australia’s second longest serving prime minister, John Howard, has joined the ‘women in Parliament’ debate, saying he, too, wants more female representation in government.

“I would like to see more women in the House of Representatives on our side of politics,” said Mr Howard.

Ironically, his comments were made at the exclusive all-male Tattersall’s Club in Brisbane.

Responding to questions about bullying of women in the Liberal ranks, Mr Howard said he feared his party was struggling to recruit women representatives in time for the next election.

The Liberal’s former deputy leader, Julie Bishop, agrees, saying that the ugliness of ‘bullying’ was one of the reasons that women were reluctant to enter public life.

“It’s not acceptable for our party to contribute to the fall in Australia’s ratings from 15th in the world in terms of female parliamentary representation in 1999 to 50th today. There’s a lot to be done,” said Ms Bishop.

“Our party, in fact all parties, recognise they have a problem in attracting and maintaining women, diversity in general.

“I have seen and witnessed and experienced some appalling behaviour in Parliament, the kind of behaviour that 20 years ago when I was managing partner of a law firm of 200 employees I would never have accepted. Yet in Parliament it’s the norm.”

Mr Howard said there were more Liberal women in the Parliament 20 years ago and is all for more female representation, but he is opposed quotas, saying they are patronising.

“I’m sure the women amongst us would agree with me overwhelmingly that, in the end, it’s all about merit,” said Mr Howard.

“But I think that whole notion of quotas is wrong. It’s patronising. There should be equality of opportunity and there should be merit-based selection.”

The YourLifeChoices Friday Flash Poll – Equality, meritocracy or opportunity? – called on older Australians to weigh in on the debate, asking them if they would like to see more women in Parliament.

The Flash Poll received 1169 responses, of which 64 per cent said yes, 22 per cent said no and 13 per cent were undecided.

Labor uses quotas to encourage women into Parliament, and it seems to work, as the party has around 50 per cent female representation on a federal level.

YourLifeChoices asked whether the Liberal Party should adopt a similar ‘quota’ policy. Almost half of all respondents agreed, with just 39 per cent still saying no and 13 per cent, again, undecided.

While having more women in Parliament is an admirable aim, it’s what happens once a politician takes power that matters most. It should come as no surprise that trust in democracy is at an all-time low. So much so, that Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has again called on the Government to adopt a watchdog to expose corrupt public figures and help restore Australians’ faith in the system.

In a letter penned to Scott Morrison, Mr Shorten said winning back trust from voters is “more important than ever”, and he called for bipartisan support for a National Integrity Commission to reveal political corruption.

He also stated that Labor would implement the commission should it win the next election. It was not the first time Mr Shorten had called for the watchdog, having also extended the same proposal to Malcolm Turnbull.

“Eight months have passed, with no action and no response,” Mr Shorten wrote to Mr Morrison.

“I’m sure you will agree that trust in politics in Australia is at a low point … There is nothing to prevent you from taking a fresh look at this issue and responding positively to the thousands of Australians who want this change to happen.”

Would having more women in Parliament be a step towards restoring faith in Australian politics?

The majority of older Australians polled don’t think so (43 per cent), although many are on the fence (37 per cent). Only 15 per cent said more women would restore integrity to the system, while six per cent were undecided.

And as far as that trust goes, well, it doesn’t …

When asked if you trust politicians, 45 per cent said ‘mostly never’ and 21 per cent said ‘never’. That’s two-thirds of older voters who distrust the people for whom they’ll vote.

Just four people of the 1169 respondents said they always trust politicians, 22 per cent said ‘sometimes’ and 12 per cent were neutral.

While many may think that the call for more female representation would be made by left voters, perhaps surprisingly, that may not be the case, as the majority of respondents were Liberal voters.

Regardless of gender, the role of politician should be about working for the people and the nation. Male, female or other, Australian politicians have done themselves no favours by ignoring the lack of confidence from voters and their desire for stability and assurance.

As Ms Bishop told Channel Nine political editor Chris Uhlmann: “(They are) no better than schoolchildren. In fact, not as well behaved as schoolchildren.”

The focus should be on employing quality representatives who recognise the fact that they work for us – not the other way around.

Will more women make a difference? Probably not. But it’s at least a step towards restoring fairness and integrity to a system that could do with all the help it can get.

Your Opinion: Should we have more women in Parliament?

The following comments are the various opinions of YourLifeChoices’ members and not that of the publisher. Some have been edited to keep to the point. If you would like to read all the comments made, head to our  Equality, meritocracy or opportunity? thread.

“I don't particularly have a preference for men or women in any political party. But what I do have a preference for is, a person of conscience, morals and ethics. A person with a vision for the future of Australia that reflects the desire of the majority of the people.” ~ Blinky Bill

“Not the best woman for the job regardless of gender....... or the best man for the job regardless of gender … we want the best person for the job.” ~ Trebor

“They should get into Parliament on merit not because they are a man, woman or whatever. Quotas not acceptable.” ~ Cassius

“Why have those women suddenly decided to complain now. They've all been around the traps for ages, yet suddenly they're being ‘bullied’! Especially Julie Bishop, who has been in Parliament for a long time. As a woman of great influence, why has she never broached the subject until now. If that is the level of maturity and intelligence that lot of women bring to politics, thank heavens we don't have any more. From a woman.” ~ Darcy

“Unless positions in the government of the day are based on merit we will all be the losers. Where a man and a woman are found equally worthy, for want of a better word, then let the woman go forward … What we need is a definition of merit. What are the criteria involved in judging who is better for the job? I would suggest that good listening skills, empathy, leadership and a proven ability to get things done, could be some of them. Also included would be objectivity, good manners and an abhorrence of dirty play.” ~ Maggie

“Australians want politicians who listen and can relate to what Australians need. Australians don't want politicians that are puppets for corporations and the rich. Those politicians whether they be women or men are useless and a waste of taxpayer money as well as the people that vote them in.” ~ Jackie

“Why didn't Julie Bishop speak up when Julia Gillard broached the subject?” ~ Felicity

“I’d like to see more women in politics. I don’t believe in quotas though. It should be the best person for the job, be it 100 per cent women or 100 per cent men. The perfect scenario is 50/50 of course. It’s time for women to step up and get more involved in politics.” ~ MarkAdel

“My personal observation is that the biggest hurdle for women in politics is women themselves. I have participated in conversations about politics and have heard women assessing female politicians in terms of their choice of clothing, hairstyles and/or body shape, even whether their shoes ‘match’ their outfit. The media is not much better. Only when the general conversation about politics centres on policy and direction will we truly have gender-neutral politics.” ~ Eddy

“Let the best man or woman get the job.” ~ Nerk

Do you agree with these opinions? Are you surprised by John Howard’s comments? Do you think Julie Bishop’s comments will be heard by her party?

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    COMMENTS

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    Geminiwoman
    24th Sep 2018
    10:19am
    Male, Famale, who cares. What we want is a Government that will put Australia and Australians first and get this country back to the country it used to be. Stop spending our hard earned tax dollars on "overseas aid" and all of the other crap they spend it on and start sorting out things like Hospitals, Schools, Homelessness, Disability help, should I go on? I recall when I was young (a long long time ago), we had the best hospital system in the world and no waiting queues. Now we have what amounts to practically a 3rd world system where good and caring nurses have their hands tied, cleanliness is a thing of the past and people are shoved out whether they're ready or not. We have terrible homlessness, schools are in crisis etc., etc. When will our governments and parliaments really look at what is needed in this country and put it first?
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    10:31am
    Do agree about hospitals, a reason for me spending $2400 per year to be in private health. Would rather spend the dough on something else, I consider it a lottery that I do not want to win but.
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    11:23am
    Well written Geminiwoman. Add to that list close to the best education system until the do gooders were let loose at it and governments started using education as a political tool.

    Personally I don't care how many women are in politics AS LONG AS they are not of the calibre of Sarah Hanson Young bleeding into the cameras and wanting to tear the country down so that their ill founded beliefs are enacted.
    Quotas? They tried that in education decades ago. I am told that women in promotional positions got to pick the first half of principal jobs (they picked the prized easy schools) and then the remaining half was equally divided between men and women. Then the women complained about how hard it was in the non choice schools and most retired early. Equality!
    Quotas is bad social engineering. If women want to be elected they need to be preselected. To do that they need to get more women to join the local branch. Who can you blame if they refuse? Men of course.
    I get a bit fed up of the female dominated media pushing THEIR own agenda all the time. These journalists care not about fairness and are starting a gender war to pulverise men. If you think not then why does prostate cancer get almost zero exposure or funding whilst breast and ovarian cancers get almost week on week publicity and ever more of the health budget. Fair? Who cares about fairness. Politics is now going the same way and about time women told their own to shut up and rejoin the human race. One lives in hope.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:42am
    Trouble with Labor, Mick, is that many branches have been stacked by women - same poor result from the opposite POV... it seems more men need to join branches to (gasps) equalise things up.

    I knew where this nation was headed back in 1994, when, as a Union delegate, I was targeted by management and tossed on the street despite an incredible work ethic etc... I then applied to 'my' Union for an in-house job and training (being a coal face rep etc) - and received a blithe letter stating that they were 'encouraging applications from women, ATSICs and ethnics'...... just not from 'my kind'.... (man with proven track record etc)

    Been no different ever since, and it is clear that the Labor party and the Union movement to a very large degree have sold out to the feminist push, and have sold out their core constituents - who are ALL of the ordinary working people, and not just a few selected groups.

    It is clear that Labor and the ACTU are now the plaything for the 'feminist revolution'... and not much more apart from the constantly under attack CFFMEU and the like - 99% men, of course, whereas the sacred cows of nursing etc are joyfully handed the top slots so they can 'mother' the economy and the nation (to death unfortunately)....

    Ged Kearney springs to mind - Nurses union and now rewarded with a spot in Parliament and income strands for life (while many nurses get by on part-time casual under some very rigid rules)....

    The eventual treason trials will bring out many things...
    Bes
    24th Sep 2018
    1:00pm
    Agree Geminiwoman!
    patti
    24th Sep 2018
    10:26am
    Until the culture changes, and women are respected as equal participants in society, as well as Parliament, we will struggle to get more women, and therefore equal representation, into our government.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:16am
    You can't force equal representation for any group - whether it be dog owners or cat handlers at the zoo....

    The electorate must decide in a fair choice...

    Every time I consider developing a party - it goes without saying that the best person for the job will be the one given the shot..... nothing else matters. Whoever has the qualities required is the one...

    Parties here reward people for service to the party by giving them a safe seat and income for life.. or for belonging to one or another of groups which have been handed 'accredited victim status' * in our society.

    Frankly, patti - it has little to do with 'respect for women' etc -it has a lot to do with the way parties of all kinds work.
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    11:26am
    patti - as one (female) MP recently said 'if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen'. The problem with women is they want a different structure because the current one does not suit them. So they spit the dummy and leave crying victim.
    I respect the female MPs who stay and do the job but have no time for those who believe they are owed the parliament they demand. Sorry.
    BillieBoy
    24th Sep 2018
    11:55am
    Trebor
    Mick
    Firstly, a woman has to be preselected by the party which is biased in the case of the LNP either by far right men or less guidance and preparation.
    Secondly, looking at the quality of the present LNP men in black, merit has little to do with it.
    Thirdly, a few of the more decent guys have also been bullied.
    Sadly, mysogeny is alive and flourishing!
    Old Geezer
    24th Sep 2018
    12:00pm
    Until the culture changes we will struggle to get decent people in parliament whether male, female or other. No matter what the job paid I certainly wouldn't be interested and many others feel the same way.
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    12:05pm
    How dare you make such a crass statement patti. Your comment suggests that women are not respected in our society when most, if not all, women are highly respected for what they achieve each and every single day. Have you bothered to ask those women who are not politicians whether they want to become politicians? Have you asked those women who are in casual employment whether they want full time employment? Have you asked those women who are stay-at-home Mums whether they want to join the workforce? No, I didn't think so.

    I've had a gutful of those people who assume that we all think as they do without bothering to ask us our opinion and I'm also over the rhetoric suggesting that women are less than equal when it comes to jobs, pay and superannuation. Us men are now being told that women will be paid more money for just being women. Women on maternity leave will get just over $1000 super for each child whereas a man on paternity leave will get an extra $38. Now Labor wants companies to explain why women get paid less than men when we all know the answer; men work more hours!
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    12:50pm
    Yup, OM - pointed out to Brother Shorten this morning that paying anything for time off was a de facto extra payment for the same job.... also that childless workers should receive a bonus equal to the same extra payment for NOT taking time off.

    He won't bite on that one, though.... totally sold on the party line as handed to him by those strong women who now stand head, shoulders, whip, leathers and all at the top of Labor..... Bro Bill is a good mouthpiece for the party line - not enough balls to stand up and really say it like it is.

    The perfect 'male' foil for the feminist onslaught.
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    2:32pm
    Billieboy - I do respect women who are not on the take and who do not com[lain every hour of the day to get special treatment they would deny their males counterparts. Think breast cancer funding!
    If preselection is the problem then women need to mobilise. Can't even do that. Only complain about their tough life. Being a man is no walk in the park and I find it sad that neither sex looks closely at the other. Women are no better. Come and get me Germaine..... Ahhhhh.
    Julian
    24th Sep 2018
    10:47am
    In any other job, your suitability is determined by your qualifications , experience and interview skills. In politics, it doesn't seem to apply. Most of them have backgrounds in law and economics. Then why do we have so many self serving imbeciles making important decisions? They can't make decisions as representatives because they lose touch with the electorate and therefore misrepresent.

    The criteria should follow as per right person for the job, irrespective of gender. If capabilities are used as a benchmark then you can only hope that you've given the country the best chance of being governed properly.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:19am
    How does the ordinary voter ever get to choose 'the right person for the job'? Choices are limited by whom the party chooses to stand... for any number of its own reasons... but primarily because that person will follow the party line .....

    Anyone who thinks our current representative mix is working for the nation needs a serious chat with a shrink. The proof of that is in the pudding....
    Julian
    24th Sep 2018
    11:23am
    Correct!

    The culture needs to change...much like what Trump brought to the US system
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:46am
    Send in the Geheime Kulturisch Polizei.... The Gekultspo will sort them out..
    Julian
    24th Sep 2018
    12:01pm
    For those who don't understand, the context of my comments relate to changing the culture LIKE Trump is attempting. At least he saw an opportunity to move on the premise where
    a majority of Americans were disallusioned with current culture. "Draining the swamp" is the point here. It needs to happen in Australia.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    12:18pm
    Too true, Julian...just joshing yah ...
    Mad as Hell
    24th Sep 2018
    10:53am
    Male or female not a problem, as long as they are honest.
    How can a leader of the LNP promise on the eve of an election “ ... no cuts to pensions...”
    and then cut incomes to 330,000 part pensioners?
    No wonder politicians have a trust problem.
    We need a quota of pensioners in parliament male or female.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:21am
    Precisely - once you start down the Equality By Numbers In A Group road, you must begin to give quotas for all groups....

    First the women, then the gays and such, then the Blacks, then the immigrants, then the various religious groups, then the pensioners, the unemployed and so forth, and all the way down to the cat handlers at the vet's.

    Doesn't work.
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    11:28am
    If honesty were a prerequisite for the parlimament you'd have maybe 5 MPs there. Probably good as you might get some real representation rather then the big business purchase of politicians which currently is the norm.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:46am
    **falls about laughing**
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    12:10pm
    You're too generous MICK, I can't see how you can reach such an astronomical figure of 5.

    Mad as hell, just to give a bit of balance: How can a leader of Labor promise on the eve of an election “ ... there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead...” and then bring in a carbon tax?
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    2:34pm
    Don't forget Abbott's lackey Greg Hunt "you have high electricity prices because of the Carbon Tax" let alone another dozen lies.
    They all lie and that's why they have little credibility but only one side of parliament has a 50 metre lead in this 100 metre race.
    Mad as Hell
    24th Sep 2018
    3:45pm
    Yes Old Man the LNP took the moral high ground and wanted to “Ditch the Witch” on her broken election promise of “No carbon tax under a government I lead” then took 330,000
    pensioners to the cleaners with their changes to the pensioner Assets Test. So on balance how do you know if a politician is lying? Their lips are moving.
    Captain
    25th Sep 2018
    11:48am
    Mad as Hell, don't forget the 94,000 who lost all of their part pension and their concession cards as well as the 330,000 who lost a portion of their pension entitlement.
    Helsy
    24th Sep 2018
    10:58am
    So-called merit is a myth - there are plenty of male politicians who lack merit and competence but who maintain their positions (and pre-selection) because they are good campaigners. It is clear that the system will not self-correct and more than a century is too long for us to wait for equality to happen organically. Providing all else is equal, quotas are a valuable tool to boost flagging numbers of any so-called minority!!
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:22am
    Define 'equality' for us... then we'll talk....
    maxchugg
    24th Sep 2018
    1:29pm
    That there are useless male politicians is beyond dispute, but take a look at some of the females in power and they are anything but inspiring. For example, Angela Merkel, Theresa May etc.

    Equality is also a great idea. For example:

    Breast cancer killed 3128 people in 2018, prostate cancer killed 3500. So, as prostate cancer kills more people than breast cancer, let's spend an equal amount on prevention for both cancers.

    There is an Office for the Status of Women, complete with minister, but no Office for the Status of Men - that needs to change!

    Wikipedia lists 33 organizations which operate for the exclusive benefit of women, none for the exclusive benefit of men. Wikipedia overlooked the few men's sheds that are around, but women are now demanding right of entry to those just as they have done with the Working Men's Club.
    Julian
    24th Sep 2018
    1:53pm
    Smells like sexism to me.
    HarrysOpinion
    24th Sep 2018
    3:41pm
    They want the right to enter men's toilets too!!!
    Julian
    24th Sep 2018
    5:38pm
    Well if they can pee standing up, why not?
    maxchugg
    26th Sep 2018
    10:06am
    Julian, some of them say that they have no problem using men's toilets, so if a small number of them have no objection to this, neither should the vast majority. Sounds like familiar tactics?
    The men, who don't want women in their toilets have no say in the matter, of course, the small minority should have the final say.
    Hopefully that answers your question of why not.
    Adrianus
    24th Sep 2018
    11:00am
    We are focusing on the wrong issues. "My number of women is bigger than yours" childish argument is getting us nowhere. This could be the benchmark country for living standards throughout the modern world.
    Julian
    24th Sep 2018
    11:27am
    Only an idiot like BS could up with that one
    johnp
    24th Sep 2018
    11:10am
    To those readers who question why Julie Bishop is only now raising this matter, it should be pointed out that she has done so because it was only at this latest round of blood-letting that the situation arose where the obviously most talented, experienced, and most meritoriously deserving candidate for PM was overlooked because she was female. Of course there had been prejudice extant within the Liberal Party, and Parliament in general, for many years, but this latest debacle brought it very much to the fore.
    Scott Morrison may have also been a capable candidate for the position, but it is questionable whether he would have been considered had he been a woman.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:25am
    That's your opinion, john - many disagree on the merits of any of the candidates for the top slot in the corporation... and The Asbestos Queen has a rather dark past to many ..... many see her as just another self-serving person with a nice gig....
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    11:29am
    No John. Bishop got her nose out of joint because she was spat out in the vote for a new PM and could not live with that. So she turned her defeat into a gender issue.
    BillieBoy
    24th Sep 2018
    12:06pm
    Mick, Julie Bishop was not wanted by the men who were either trying to place Dutton as PM or the whole thing was actually orchestrated by the present PM which makes him super manipulative. Corman was obvious as were others. So that would make ScoMo very cunning!
    The women and a few men were bullied into voting a certain way. Don't think mild bullying, understand extreme harassment and stand over tactics. Imagine the worst thing that has ever happened to you and how you felt. If you can't then lucky you!
    You are not talking about weak women or men because they are not. Look at how they dish it out in question time towards labor. But your own team should not do that to you.
    john
    24th Sep 2018
    12:10pm
    Rubbish Johnp.
    Bishop was a failure in the Treasury portfolio, doesn't mean she would make a bad foreign minister or a bad PM its the fact that she didn't win votes. And that is the question, not her womanhood, I wonder how many women were in that eleven that voted for her?
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    2:39pm
    Billieboy - far more basic than that. Morrison was not only a coal man but has the expertise of Joseph Goebbels from what I have seen. The last interview with Leigh Sales on 7:30 Report was a disgrace for any human being, let alone a prospective PM. Not often I feel sorry for interviewers but Sales did her best with this malicious nasty piece of work. Now our PM.
    The other reason Morrison got in is Murdoch wanted him in. Murdoch had already discussed this with 7 Media owner Stokes and was in town the day of the (Turnbull) execution. If you want to blame somebody blame Murdoch who thinks he can elect a government and PM on a vote of 1. The man needs to be jailed as he is a democracy subverter.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:11am
    It is the people who should decide - and who should not be forced to choose one or another of the same kind. For anyone with a brain, that works both ways. It works against quotas and it works against entrenched gender pre-selection, and at the end of the day the chosen candidate should be decided by the local party branch and not The Kremlin or Megacorp Colluders Inc.

    I'm always fair.... thank my critics for coming.... there's always next year...
    Jacka
    24th Sep 2018
    11:21am
    In my opinion there should not be any quotas for any jobs whether political or not. 100% men employed or 100% women employed it doesn't matter if they have the correct qualifications and fill the bill they should get the job. It's an absolute joke hiring different genders to make up the numbers, that's why we have the problems we do. The best person for the job should always get the job, we know that doesn't happen but we can only try. Cheers Jacka.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:30am
    That was the argument I presented at the introduction of 'equal employment opportunity' in the CPS. The example I put was:-

    " so under your rules, a Bellevue Hill daughter of a rich family with private school etc, who's never missed a square meal, gets preference in appointment and promotion over a poor family son of Aboriginals/Ethnics who had to struggle to get qualified etc, and then at the bottom of the pile is the poor White boy from a totally deprived background and public school education and who fought to get ahead every day of his life?"

    How was that ever fair or equal treatment? How is that 'making everyone equal'?

    Appointment/promotion on proven merit based on real life outcomes- not some artificial guidelines....
    BillieBoy
    24th Sep 2018
    12:10pm
    Right Jacka, great men on LNP side, all competent and focussed NOT!
    greenie
    24th Sep 2018
    11:23am
    Who really cares?
    The best candidates will rise to the top, male or female.
    If they can't bear it or are not proved capable, then let them leave, either sex.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:32am
    Would that it were so, but the dearth of genuine talent at the top these days leaves me without any doubt that politics is a sewer......
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    11:34am
    Ha ha ha. Funny greenie. Candidates are BOUGHT and the LNP has a whole pile of deadheads who are representing vested interests and not the nation.
    I don't know where you get the notion of "best" from as being a deceitful lying smooth talker who can twist the truth and work around giving a truthful answer is the profile of many of our MPs. We have a lot of scum with the odd decent person. Andrew Wilkie is one of the good guys but the propaganda media rarely if ever giver the man any coverage. Nevertheless he is there doing the work of government. Others are there doing the work of their business sponsors and betraying us all....not that many in the public would understand what is going on behind the scenes.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:34am
    Oh - whatever John Howard has to say is last week's fish wrappers... he's had his sweet ride - he should just fade away in stately silence and let us move forward ....
    MICK
    24th Sep 2018
    11:37am
    John 'Work (not) Choices Howard should shut his mouth and go attend another function with Rupert Murdoch. Howard's attack on working Australians saw him spat out. We do not need him and they roll him out only to reiterate to the (LNP) faithful to stay in the foal. He's an advertising weapon who nobody wants.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:53am
    'WorkChoices? What are my choices?"

    "Take it or leave it!"

    I recall that cartoon.... didn't Pinnochio Howard also promise no GST?

    "I'm a real boy!"

    "You're the right height!"
    john
    24th Sep 2018
    12:05pm
    The worst thing that can happen to any organisation any where, is pick people out because of a certain trait, whether it be favoritism of a relative or whether it be quotas for different races, or whether it be equalising the number of men to women ratios, and in anything , not just governments.
    In fact especially in government where you simply have to have the right people, and in Australia at the moment we are not sure who the good the bad and the ugly are?
    Picking a person out to run in a seat because they are woman or man which ever way , is simply wrong. It is also logic, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE BEST CANDIDATE. Man or woman!

    So in our system we have quotas in the Labor Party which should ring bells instantly, because it is a system of looking good to the public and a system where maybe you don't get the best.
    It has nothing to do with gender equality, in government it has only to do with quality not quantity, so quotas for "political correctness"can and maybe does in some cases put a lesser person in the job.
    Only on merit should people enter parliament.
    The women in the Liberal party seem to have spat the dummy, and when they could name people they've been persuaded to not do it, when the public have to have those names!

    It is an empty gesture, and two parliamentarians who are finishing up, Labor and Liberal both women are going on some over seas study trip to the UN to help them in their careers in politics , BUT BOTH ARE FINISHING THEIR JOBS IN GOVERNMENT AND OPPOSITION.
    IT IS A HUGE JOKE , BUT ITS ON US , THE PUBLIC!
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    12:42pm
    Just spotted that one on the strand about tax cheats etc on offshore holidays.

    Amazing - talk about age of entitlement.... $2.5m a year to run a politician on average and they still want all the freebies they can get... and for no valid return to the Australian taxpayer.

    Shows what happens when you are the judiciary, the referee and the teams playing on the field..... just vote yourself whatever you want.. plenty more where that came from... now that's settled... let's get after Jo Bloggs for shorting Centrelink.... $50 wasn't it?

    Maybe a public caning and twelve months inside will fix her attitudes...
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    12:44pm
    Oh ... and what was that about women bringing a different perspective and attitude etc to Parliament?

    Not as long as their arses point to the ground.....
    johna53
    24th Sep 2018
    12:09pm
    Mr Howard seems to think merit exists now but the truth is immature and outdated habits are what exists. New people, male or female, introduced without traditional masculine attitudes might facilitate changes in line with 21st century Australian attitudes, behaviours and desires.
    HarrysOpinion
    24th Sep 2018
    3:35pm
    The definition of "merit" in politics is the ability to achieve majority of votes during election time.
    Bottle-O-Rum
    24th Sep 2018
    12:33pm
    Certainly we want more female Liberal MPs just as we want more male Liberal MPs. However, we do not want quotas. Women of merit, who want the job with the downsides and upsides, will get it. Merit and determination is the way to have the best people - whining is proof of unsuitability for either sex.
    maxchugg
    24th Sep 2018
    1:07pm
    This one's an easy fix. As there more women than men in Australia, all is required is that the girls vote for the girls.
    A list of solo cruisers willing to share
    24th Sep 2018
    1:13pm
    FEMALE OK BY ME PROVIDED THAT IF INTIMIDATED DO NOT WAIT HAVE A REAL GO AT HIM WHEN IT HAPPENS NOT MONTHS LATER AND WITH A NEW PM SUPPORT HIM AND KEEP HIM UP TO DATE AS HE SHOWS THAT HE WANTS TO WIN THE ELECTION NOT LOOSE SOME OF HIS TEAM
    FINALLY, DO IT YOUR WAY SAME AS WHEN YOU STOPPED THE BOATS REGARDS AND GOOD LUCK
    Knight Templar
    24th Sep 2018
    2:23pm
    Ms Bishop - an odious, hypocritical, self-serving, Me-Too snowflake.

    24th Sep 2018
    2:44pm
    Meanwhile Michelle Guthrie was sacked as Managing Director of the ABC, for trying to hold the corporation more accountable and more objective away from its pro labor pro socialist culture

    Damn - a good woman gone !
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    4:33pm
    More bullshit, olbaid. The ABC as an institution is not politically biased (though some of its better-known personnel are).
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    4:35pm
    BS is your beloved leaders initials
    I Olbaid, never lie . It’s not in my DNA
    Adrianus
    24th Sep 2018
    5:21pm
    The board had no right to sack Michelle Guthrie halfway through her 5 year contract.

    If Australians are fed up with democracy its because they have not seen it at the ABC.
    One needs to be a communist to get a job there. Come to think of it, ABC radio only interviews those with communist ties.
    When Gough Whitlam became PM, he quickly sacked the entire board and replaced them with Labor / apparatchiks.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    6:27pm
    The ex just walked in and suggested I put my hand up to run the ABC - but I refuse to be politically connected in any way, so have no chance.

    olbie - lying and being sadly mistaken can exist side by side....

    Adrie - do you know why the woman was sacked? I haven't heard and don't follow such shenanigans .....(wow - look at how far Gaelic has intruded into Australian English - next they'll be calling the town roads sreeds (streets)...., the rapscallions..should be struck with a shelalagh).....
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    6:30pm
    Trebor - after your giant porkie today about RIO not paying tax, I think you should hang your head in shame
    Or are you going to claim you were badly mistaken

    Such a liar - I'm ashamed to tell anyone I post on the same forum as you
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    7:08pm
    Now, now - RT didn't pay tax many times... this time apparently the report is they did.. fair mistake..

    No need for you to turn nasty.... you might get it back. You paying any tax on your shares income, BTW? Or are you taking advantage of an existing rort?
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    7:20pm
    Fair mistake , my .....posterior

    $4 Billion in tax in 2017 and projected $5 Billion plus in 2018

    2017 effective tax rate was 31%, meaning earlier years deferred tax crystallised in 2017

    I paid some tax on my 2017 income unfortunately , overall amounted to 2.5% of my income . Hopefully 2018 will be a bit less , maybe 1.75%
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    7:22pm
    RIO TINTO LIMITED 27,839,868,862 4,585,060,449 1,049,914,886

    They paid, my mistake....
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    7:23pm
    'deferred tax' - hmm - must be the time they paid none or little.

    You ARE a rorter!!
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    7:25pm
    wtf. Rorter ???

    bloody hell. just because I claim all my legal allowances .

    settle down homey !
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    7:32pm
    Fully franked BHP dividends into shareholders accounts tomorrow . Thank you Jesus
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:21pm
    What's legal today can be illegal tomorrow.....

    Settle down, honey... they're coming for you some day...

    If you only pay that much tax on income you are rorting somewhere...
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:25pm
    What if the ATO applied the 'user pays' principle to its full extent - and if you force them to pursue a paper trail to fully realise your chicaneries to cut ta - they charge you by the hour???

    You're the one who set up the paper trail that costs so much to follow.... user pays... a 'rightist' ideology.
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    11:30pm
    I paid close to $10,000 in tax last year homey (not honey) and that includes franking credits I lost
    I give my share to support the leaners
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    11:31pm
    On behalf of the ATO, the AFP, the legislators and their advisors, and the honest taxpaying public of Australia, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for so clearly and succinctly pointing out where and why the current tax structures need to be changes.

    I applaud your honesty and integrity incoming forward.... and I'll try to do my best for you at the hearings.....
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2018
    12:01am
    All above board ma brutha from another mutha
    And if BS takes away my franking credits, my second passport will have skid marks and whiplash from the g-force is Virgin Atlantic

    I am but a poor man compared to the thousands of Aussies who will be outta the lucky country faster than you can say unfranked dividends
    Crowcrag
    24th Sep 2018
    2:48pm
    The usual array of comments which quickly veer away from the topic into the commentator’s pet gripe for the week. What seems consistent here is that people do not mind the gender of the MP as long as they work for their electorate and in parliament do the job of governing for the people, not necessarily for their Party. In other words, people should be selected on merit. BUT, what criteria constitute merit, and who does the selecting?
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    6:28pm
    All true....
    Nomad1946
    24th Sep 2018
    3:31pm
    It’s got buggar all to do with gender!! Being a member of parliament - State or Federal - is an important job/career and to do it properly (as required) one must have (1) the smarts; (2) the committment; (3) determination; and, (4) time.
    Else don’t bother - male or female.
    Old Geezer
    24th Sep 2018
    3:59pm
    Well all I say is this that the sort of women in parliament are certainly not my type and would be very hard indeed to live with.
    Old Geezer
    24th Sep 2018
    4:01pm
    Not too sure if I was a woman I'd like to meet any of the men in parliament in a back alley either.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    6:31pm
    Billy Connelly (as someone mentioned yesterday):- anyone who aspires to be a politician should be barred for life from doing so.

    It's not a career - it's a stint of public service for which you are richly rewarded for putting your life on hold... so the theory goes.... and in my view should be limited to no more than two elected period, lest the incumbent become cocky, suffer hubris, lose touch, or become 'bent'.
    melaleuca
    24th Sep 2018
    4:16pm
    Dearie, dearie me, I agree with Geminiwoman except as regarding overseas aid.
    I am disappointed with some of the responses. Here we go again with the rants against feminists as though feminist is a dirty word. Well, I am a baby boomer who has benefitted from equal pay legislation and the many initiatives, including quotas, which have given women (yes, those childbearing, childminding, hysterical, menstruating, etc.etc. who hold up half the world people) the entrance to higher education and yes, politics.
    Please ask yourselves why it is that women do not occupy half the high powered jobs in this country. Seriously, why do you think that is?
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    4:19pm
    Because they are not qualified or are not interested
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    4:22pm
    Btw , you are one of those who were unfairly given high paying roles and opportunities over more deserving individuals
    Nothing to be proud of
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    7:12pm
    Quotas didn't get you entry to higher education - the doors were thrown open by Labor.

    The only current quotas in higher education are the extra scholarships handed to women plus the value of the changes to the high school system so as to more benefit girls... 1986, Meredith Burgmann, feminist academic (there is such a thing?).

    There also seems to be some serious quota work going on in the 'better' professions, particularly in the medical fields.
    HDRider
    24th Sep 2018
    4:19pm
    Well the news just mentioned the Brownlow Medal, they didn't mention it was a medal that was presented to the MAN who got the most votes for besty player, they just showed women and there fashion show flashing themselves in revealing dresses! I really don't heery this 'it's all about women' thing.
    Isn't it about the best person most qualified for the job etc.? Every one wants to bitch and fight about crap nowadays, can't we just get on like we used to?
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    4:25pm
    Yes - I too miss the good old days where the good woman stayed home and looked after her man and his offspring
    floss
    24th Sep 2018
    4:26pm
    Why not they may put a break on this bunch of thugs called the Liberal party.The Libs need to improve their game a few smart thinking femals may improve their tarnished image.God what a bunch of morons.
    Old Geezer
    24th Sep 2018
    4:30pm
    What has you believing that any of the others are any better?
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    4:33pm
    Only her ignorance and love of all things labor - typical leaner mentality
    No logic
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    7:12pm
    Like Susan Leys, The Ethical?
    Mandy
    24th Sep 2018
    4:42pm
    To quote Abraham Lincoln one of America's greatest president: 'A house against itself cannot stand'. The LNP women wearing red at question time could hardly be missed. Are they implying that their sympathies if not their loyalties are with Labor. Surely in this time of crisis it is time for the LNP to close ranks, male and female. Do they not see the Labor vultures circling?
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2018
    4:43pm
    Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned
    All logic goes out the window and they resort to pettiness
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    6:39pm
    Vultures circle over a dead body....... they are carrion eaters, not predators...

    Some prefer the ambience of the desert or natural forest, some the highway, but most vultures agree the fast food is better on the highway, more variety and fresh as daily - the fresh food people couldn't do better.
    Chooky
    24th Sep 2018
    5:52pm
    White privileged liberal males don’t like women in positions of power. How can we ever forget Abbott and the way this ‘good Christian’ spoke to and about Julia Gillard? Deplorable.
    Shocking bullying of women by liberal politicians. They have demonstrated time after time that they are a bunch of misogynists.
    TREBOR
    24th Sep 2018
    6:41pm
    I agree the Ditch The Witch and the chaff bag and her father dying of shame were past the post and beyond the pale... who knows - without that personal spite thrown at her Saint Julia might have been a better woman and PM rather than the spiteful feministy bitch she showed at the end.

    But then - there's the question of grace under pressure......
    Rosret
    24th Sep 2018
    6:59pm
    There are many women who contribute to public life through voluntary charities and local government.
    It is hard to be a politician. YLC has just given the stats on the % of mistrusters. You can swap that word for "Knockers".
    You need to already be popular, which means you are out socialising at every opportunity - not reading your children a bedtime story.
    You need to be dressed impreccably. You needed to have a teflon coat to field the comments on performance, fashion and personal appearance.
    You need to be capable of "man speak" and be able to "play politics".
    A woman in politics has to take on the male enclave from within the party, in facing opposition and in facing the general public.
    Is there any wonder the applicants are few and far between no matter how good they would be at job.
    Dot
    24th Sep 2018
    7:15pm
    Far too many fannies across all levels of Government that's why this country in a total mess.
    All females get back to the kitchen sink and let the men run this country.
    MD
    24th Sep 2018
    9:23pm
    Tch,tch, Dot, methinks the braying mob may be stacking the faggots around the stake with your name on it. How do you fancy being done - rare, medium or well ?
    OnlyDaughter
    24th Sep 2018
    7:17pm
    I think that most candidates standing for election, whether male or female and regardless of political persuasion, have honesty and good intentions and take these into Parliament if they are elected. This is then where things go pear-shaped simply because they cannot make decisions on their personal creed as they are members of a party and they have to do what their party tells them, even if they think it is wrong. They either tow the party line or they are out. In effect, all party-elected politicians are slaves to ideals set behind the scenes by unknown people with well formed agenda and, regardless of which party they belong to, if they stay in Parliament they become part of the problem, and never the solution. I have long thought that the problem with government is not whether there are x number of men and y number of women, but it is the Party System because it makes everyone conform to that Party's ideals - most of which are not to the advantage of this country.
    MD
    24th Sep 2018
    9:30pm
    Ah, you allude to those 'faceless men' that Gough referred to - and so long ago - 'everything changes, nothing changes at all' may be pertinent Only Daughter.
    Adrianus
    25th Sep 2018
    8:41am
    OnlyDaughter, I find it hard to believe that a person would join a political party while having a disliking of the party's political ideology? But then again it wouldn't surprise me. It has been said that Malcolm Turnbull would have been more effective in the Labor Party even though he didn't agree with their methods.
    I agree with you in that something happens to a MP when they develop history. Many do, as you say, enter parliament with good intentions and much promise. I like to think of this process as a learning experience. There's a quid pro quo system in play, as well as a credit and debit system, similar to flybuys. Same sort of thing happens outside of politics but its fairer and doesn't carry the wild tribal overtone.
    With this in mind I voted for the hope of seeing more women in parliament, but for a different reason. I would like to see a culture shift and I think women can have an influence in that area, but the change must occur naturally not as a consequence of ideology and identity politics, which only serve to scuttle the development of a positive cultural change.

    The desire by some for quotas on women is an example of a deeper problem. We are copying political behaviours from the USA which are often not relevant here.

    The US Democrats started the Klu Klux Klan to keep the African Americans "in their place." When votes from that racial group were needed the Democrats distanced themselves from the KKK and groomed that voter base. That group was turned against the whites as motivation. The political battle ground shifted up a gear in the 1980's with various communist groups campaigning together on the realisation that "your enemy is my enemy." Thereby reducing the white group by excluding females. Now we are being asked to work against white males here in Australia?
    To my knowledge Australia has never really had a gender or race issue but I fear if Labor continue to adopt political policies based on USA style problems then we may in the near future?

    Things will always go pear shaped if the reasons for implementing change are not based on sound logic.
    Big Kev
    26th Sep 2018
    12:38am
    I was part of first Emily's list function in the early 90's. It was clear from both male and female present that quotas were the only way to go. In Qld 50% Cabinet and of the Government are female. This was partly through mentoring, through people of quality being given an extra vote through a quota system. A government should reflect society. which means it can't be made up of rich white Men as in the Liberal Party.
    Adrianus
    26th Sep 2018
    7:11am
    Exactly my point Big Kev, we were led to believe the left was against racism and for all things noble? But when the whips are cracking and we're all heading for the winning post the left decide to show their hypocrisy by becoming racists and their supporters see nothing wrong with this?