Who are the first people to inhabit the land we now call Australia?
Senate crossbencher David Leyonhjelm has cast doubt over whether Aboriginal people were the first Australians.
His comments came ahead of the release of a parliamentary committee report on Thursday that will give the green light to a referendum to recognise indigenous people in the constitution and remove sections that could allow racial discrimination.
Senator Leyonhjelm says he is a 'black and white anti-racist' and agrees with removing the two references to race.
However, the Liberal Democrat says he needs to be persuaded on the argument that Aboriginal people should be recognised as the first Australians.
- See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/national/2015/06/25/leyonhjelm-casts-doubt-over-first-australians.html?cid=BP_CAROUSEL_FIRST_AUSTRALIANS_250615#sthash.d5cv2WQq.dpuf
What does this forum think, is the Senator being cautious or just plain silly?
Thank you for posting this video Plan B and I agree, more than well worth watching, as the film says “it is a filthy truth” .
Thanks Ray I am going to buy that video it is worth having he has many videos and I am sure they would also be very interesting
Tony Abbott in Arnhem Land: a display of farce and cynicism
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/19/tony-abbott-in-arnhem-land-a-display-of-farce-and-cynicism
The Senator needs to do some more research on this topic (eg via Google) and he will find that the consensus seems to be that even if there were earlier arrivals (such as supported by evidence found in the Kimberley) they were still probably descendants to the later arrivals of today's Aboriginal people. While it is all very interesting, it is just a theory that appears to be supported by available evidence.
No matter what or who we have treated the Aboriginal people of this country in the most horrific and dispicable way and STILL are !
I am with you all the way PlanB, just beyond me.
Thanks Dizzy, I really feel for them.
This really shows Abbott up for what he is, he is just interested in a photo shoot the little bloke is being well mannered
Trouble is PB one size does not fit all. A succession of Govts have come up with a variety of ideas and possible solutions only to find success is not universal.
Never will be from what I can see as most Govt solutions are based on short time periods and what may be seen as a good thing in one part of the country, instant success, will take many years in another part to succeed, if it ever does.
Words on a constitution will in all probability sooth the empathic and guilt feelings of many non aboriginals and appease some aboriginals but I doubt the lot of the many disparate aboriginal groups spread around the country will change over much.
The solutions as I have said before will eventually come from the people themselves, this will take time, but there is no other way from what I can see.
SD
Yes it is a very sad state of affairs Shaggy
Shaggy is there any subject at all on which you are optimistic
Pete,
Not a pessimist, more of a realistic. I have had to deal in facts and real outcomes most of my working life.
There is little room for dreamers and optimists in aviation, hoping something will work out okay will get you dead very quickly or worse maybe some others.
I do believe there will be a solution to many of the problems surrounding indigenous people but as I say the it will need to come from the people affected as very little attempted by governments and other organisations has proven to be successful so far.
It needs more than words and money, it needs a desire from those caught in this dreadful cycle to effect real change.
Change will happen but I think it will come from an unexpected quarter. When is the question.
Take it easy.
SD
I really respect realists I myself live in the real world and there is not a lot to be optomistic about, sadly
I respect realist too but there is a lot to be optimistic about , on the Aboriginal front record numbers are attending Univercity there are 16 aboriginal members of parliment . There are succeful business being set up on theiR own lands...They are strongly represented in popular culture .
Of course their are problems as there is in Non Aboriginal Society . But let's keep it in perspective they only represent 1.5 per cent of our population , and in my opinion should not be given unique representation In our constitution.
Agree totally with your first paragraph Pete, and like you believe there is a lot to be optimistic about with regard to our Indigenous people.
However I have to disagree with your second paragraph since I believe that regardless of numbers, everyone must have a voice..
We in the mainstream hear little about the destructive impact of government policy on Aboriginal communities. We hear little about the racism that directs harsher sentences for Aboriginal people in the NT than white people. Rudd's apology rings hollow because control continues to overrule respect. Has been that way for eons and continues to be that way. To begin with respect outlined in our constitution would be a first giant step forward IMO.
Robi,
Possibly a giant step for the non indigenous but a very tentative and to many indigenous folk an unknown and possibly meaningless step.
Sadly it will change little in the lives of many indigenous folk, their lives and all their problems will go on as they do now.
Right now I do not think anyone has the answers.
SD
In a way I agree with you Shaggy but every little step counts. We must push towards expressing our respect. Apology per se doesn't cut it does it?
In every family the greatest thing one can give their child is respect. That beyond all else sets them up for healthy adulthood. Yet we have a history of disrespecting our indigenous people and treating them like a "problem" that needs to be controlled in one way or another. It's heartbreaking what we have done to them in so many ways. They don't need to grow up - we do!!!!
Robi I fully agree respect respect respect.
It would have looked better of the ealry settlers if they had respected and LEARNT from the Aborginals as they must have seen they were surviving quite well and they could have learnt a LOT from them.
Agree with both Robi and Plan B, respect is the operative word, you can provide a person with all that he/she needs materially, but unless there is respect for their very existence it is worth nothing IMO...
Unfortunately people with indigenous, anglo-saxon and other cultural backgrounds spend too much time focusing on past 'glorious and all was wonderful then' lifestyle myths. All the posturing, calls for respect, anger at perceived injustice and demands for special recognition of separate identity and culture are not helpful to building a better harmonious Australia. I believe people of all backgrounds in this 'lucky country' would be better served in focusing on their contribution to bright future for themselves and their children. We have now reached a time when 'free-ride' rights to a paternalistic 'good life' associated with mining and earlier wool growing is fading and our prosperity (or decline ) will rely on how well educated, innovative and hardworking we are. Current rising competitor nations are all located in Asia and are achieving their 'first world' status with far less Government support for individuals than now expected in Australia. It is now difficult to discern between our political parties who spend so much time handwringing about comparitively trite issues (egged on by our media) and so little time promoting consultative policies that offer us a secure long term future. I believe our forebears who slogged through the 20th century wars and economic depressions would be appalled by the calls for 'ever more benefits without any real effort attitudes '. No wonder we have produced a generation addicted to selfies and many retreating into a drug-fuelled fantasy world. I am reminded of JF Kennedy's election statement to Americans (sic) ' Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country'. The alternative is for us to follow the road taken by modern Greece!
DIYBB (do it yourself baby boomer)
Well said Peter47
Hope to see more of you
Well said Peter47
Thank you for your contribution Peter47, do agree with most of what you say, but would suggest that unlike other people of other cultural backgrounds, the Aboriginals (original inhabitants of this land), lost their "glorious" lifestyles when the white man arrived and tortured, and killed many of them loff, so that they can get their land.
This feeling of displacement in their own land is something that might take these people at least another couple of generations IMHO to learn to live with and only if they are recognised in our Constitution..
PB,
Many did learn, that is how most of our early settlers survived, also many came from a have not background and were determined to have some. There were opportunities in this country that were just not available back in their land of birth.
It was seen by many that the indigneous people were doing little with the country and from the point of view at the time there was little wrong with displacing existing cultures. This was not confined to Australia.
Todays mind set is very different from what existed back then and that applies to all involved. We cannot go back, the future is where the solutions will be found and hopefully away from political posturing.
Total acceptance is impossible, I accept many people into my home and life, some black, some white and some brindle and there are many of similar colouring I do not. Acceptance is an individual thing and that is the way we should face it. Do not paint everyone with the same brush no matter what their colour or background, that will not solve any problems.
The indigenous people I know have names similar to mine, I try not to lump them into groups or cultures, they are individuals, as are we all. It is easy to lump people into groups, a mistake in my humble opinion. We do tend to be tribal, it does help to break away from that attitude.
When I talk to someone it is not a Greek, an Aboriginal, a Fijian or whatever I am talking to, it is a person, an individual. Like them or not they are a human being the same as myself, full of faults and foibles but usually interesting all the same.
Enough from me. I shall leave the floor to wiser heads than mine.
Take it easy.
SD
So very true Shaggy we are all imperfect and there are good and bad in all cultures and people.
Wise words my friend.
Quote from Shaggy Dog "It was seen by many that the indigneous people were doing little with the country"
To any one who knows a little about Aboriginal culture this statement would rankle and greatly so. Non-Indigenous people and land owners consider land as something they own, a commodity to be bought and sold, an asset to make profit from, and also a means to make a living off . For Aboriginal people the relationship is much deeper and completely different to the white man.
According to Aboriginal people the land owns them and every aspect of their lives connected to it. That’s why they did not build like the white man did, that’s why they did not destroy the environment. Aboriginals have a deep spiritual connection to the land and for a white person to say they did nothing with the land is wrong in my opinion since in Aboriginal culture all they were required to do is protect their "mother" the land...
YEs the Indiginous people have far more respect for the lands than whites do
Ray,
Not my thoughts but it was the way it was seen way back, as it was in other countries in the early years of settlement.
I do have a reasonable grasp of 'country' as applied by indigenous folk.
Take it easy.
SD
The American negro were maliciously treated, enslaved, murdered, lynched treated worse than animals because they were black, But they have overcome that, not only with help, but their own determination to be free and fight for it against tremendous odds., If you don't have that inner drive {no matter what you do} your going to sit and be walked over.
The U.S. Lost more people in its civil war , which resulted in the abolition of slavery, than all other wars than the U.S. Has been involved with put together.
The internal debates in the 1960s and beyond have been for inclusiveness resulting in a black President .
The current debate in Australia should be for inclusiveness of our Own Tiny Aboriginal population not recognition of difference. IMO they should not be recognised uniquely in our constitution ...
Yes Seth the way the Indidinous peoles everywhere have been treated -- is deplorable -- the Blacks in the USA are STILL treated the same, also the American Indians treated the same --- who the hell do we whites think we are and why do we think we are above these people ? Because we are NOT !!
I think Australians were the last to recognise that fact Plan B with the Abolution of the Whites Only policy in the 1970s .
The world has moved on we now look to inclusiveness Which the U.S. of all countries has been the most successful . our Multicultural policy and our suggested recognising Aboriginals in the constitution does not help ..
Yes Seth, the American negro has suffered in unimaginable ways considering that they were forcibly brought to America, and yes they have overcome obstacles to shine in many cases, but there is one difference.
After the abolition of slavery in the US, the American negro was given the same rights as the white American and this was written in their Constitution. This makes a whole lot of difference - this feeling knowing that you are basically "one of them" even though you may not be treated by all in this vein, gives a person the determination and will to excel, our Indigenous folk do not have this.. yet..
Rubbish
PETE: If you are going to so rude as to call a person's post "rubbish", then at least have the decency to explain why you do so.
Failure to elaborate, just tells people that you have no idea what you are talking about and are just ill mannered....
The American amendment after the Civil war banned Exclususion of the right to vote on account of race . As the right to vote is not a human right but a citizen right this was easilY got around by some Southern States. By refusing to enroll on Variouse grounds.
Our own Aboriginals were counted as citizens by a referendum to change the constitution
after the demise of the White Australia Policy...So the Aboriginals have equal rights . What some are Asking for now is additional rights to other citizens to be uniquely recognised in our Constitution which I oppose,,,,
well worth watching
http://beamafilm.com/utopia/#.VbcMbfnezAq