While I cant summon much enthusiasm for either of our main political parties, I cant see that electing a bunch of new "independents" will solve anything. At least the major parties have SOME infrastructure and resources to investigate issues and obtain specialist advice in framing legislation etc (not that we actually see much evidence of that).

In my opinion, electing independents will only see a further degradation of the system with so many diverse and possibly conflicting policies, opinions, agenda's etc and even less would be accomplished. It would be far better to see a new party emerge, dedicated to honesty and integrity in government with a policy of transparency in its dealings and governing "for the people" rather than just cynical political expedience.

The days of careful and considered legislative change after due research, party consideration and consultation with "stakeholders" are long gone - they now legislate by trial and error. They eventually amend legislation to fix inequities, loopholes and injustices, but only after long delays, public outcry and well after many lives/enterprises have been ruined. How much more of this can we, as a nation, take?

I would love to see only independents, working for their constituency without towing the Party line in Parliament,but under our system it is rather difficult to achieve.

If you vote Independent, make sure beforehand that you know where their preferences are going - in case they don't get in - or you wake up to a Government you never intended to have. (Remember Keating?)

For the Senate I always number them individually - bit of a pain but I want Independents in the Upper House to think for us and not for a party that is always looking for political donations to their cause - that is the problem with the big two.



Both are being donated to for favours by the big businesses and others who seek out favours to advance their own agenda rather than look after the public good which is what they are elected to do - rule for the majority and not for donations and all the nice little bits of good stuff which comes their way.



Agree we do need a good party like One Nation but will it be allowed to live - :gulp:



I think the public is slowly waking up to the scam of taxing us all to pay the elites rather than save the planet - because it is the sun which is affecting the weather not carbon - or else Mars wouldn't be suffering the same changes at the same time and no people using carbon up there!

Agree we do need a good party like One Nation but will it be allowed to live -



I think the public is slowly waking up to the scam of taxing us all to pay the elites rather than save the planet - because it is the sun which is affecting the weather not carbon - or else Mars would’t be suffering the same changes at the same time and no people using carbon up there!

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I agree that it the sun that is causing this--I am a sceptic about the GW--and even if it IS caused by "us" charging $40 per cow because they fart--doesn't everything fart!!! They need to look inti the cutting down of the Amazon and the petrol and oils spillage etc --that what is the most important..



As far as the One Nation goes--no they would never be allowed to "live" because they were saying what most were thinking.

Methinks far too many are unjust not thinking outside the arguments between the parties and the personalities of the two leaders.



As you mentioned every single farmer will have to pay for the carbon used to process his cow at the processors so say for the sake of this exercise - they pay him $20 for the cow and then take off $8* for processing he will not make a profit as it is said to cost $15 to get the cow to market. On top of that the processor will then be charged back for his carbon use by the supermarket - who will have to pay for their use of carbons to get it on the shelf and guess who pays for that little piece of beef served up in a tray at before carbon say $24Kg and now after carbon added all along the line $45 a kg.



You me and any other person who can now afford to buy this piece of lovely fillet steak. Usually around $29 a kg here BTW when on the better class supermarkets in town. Never see it locally as no one in that upper social class in rural Tassie I suspect!



Anyway also affected wil be the veggie farmer growing his veggies in the correct manner in proscribed fertiliser and not untreated human faeces like they use in China and having to try to compete with Chinese prices and now forced also to pay carbon which China will never have to pay what will happen to our farmers as their produce is also back charged for the carbon used to process it and then the supermarket to sell it and then we to pay for it and right next to it will be cheaper by a tiny bit chinese crap which many will buy as cant afford the more expensive Aussie grown so the veggie farmers walk off the land and eventually we can no longer feed our selves and have to import all of our food at the cost they now dictate as we are at their complete mercy!



Plus of course a county which cannot feed itself - remember the problems Britain had in WW2 and how it was fed by the Americans with a great loss of life as the Germans tried to sink the convoys etc and block food as well as ammo and other war materials being shipped.

So there we sit a country with expensive wanted resources unable to feed itself and only 20 million and open to being blockaded.



Meanwhile will anyone consider this when we go to vote at the next election apart from who will be blooming well vote for as I wil not vote for anyone who wants to ruin our country with a carbon reduction scheme which resembles the bug that was going to cripple us at midnight on 31st December 1999 Y2 bug - which also turned out to be a myth. Just like this blooming stupid carbon will and the oil will run out in the 70's which it didn't and lately we will all be dying with swine flu which we are not no more than the usual winter flu - overreaction and governments all brainwashed by the United Nations starting off this hare on false data which has proved to be false and 52 scientists who many say now they didn't sign off on the report that started this and don't agree to global warming being caused by carbon. Petitions on the internet signed by thousands of scientists who are qualified in these matters that it is not happening and still we cannot get the government here to even look into it and check their computer profiling data used which most say is not true data and based on false predicators as UN's

was.



*$8 a cow is the actual cost worked out for processing in Tasmania under the ETS proposed by Rudd and printed off in the paper.



havent got a clue how much they get paid per cow but it is nothing like what the butchers or the supermarkets get if you could add up all the cuts they get off of one cow and the price paid for them.



Did the exercise once on a Ford Falcon and using the cost of the spare parts in the Ford dealership at the time and it came out at $84,000 when the car was sold complete for $24,000. Unbelievable - but true so the cow would be the same.

BigVal:



I hear exactly what you are saying ( unfortunately our Government seem to have a hearing deficit!) and can appreciate the position and the views that yourself and many other farmers and producers are expressing at the "inevitability" of this ETS in whatever shape or form!



For too many years the farmer has been dominated by the big supermarket arrogance, receiving a small pittance in return for his produce, whilst at the same time the "people`s savers" have flourished with their obscene mark-ups, but whenever questioned as to their profitability wring their hands and wail about "market forces" and other such political-type gobbledygook, justifying in their own mindset that they are right!



I have heard the term bandied around " You can`t knock a bloke for making a quid!" ...Well folks I am sorry to have to tell you that the ETS in whichever shape or form it is finally presented, will bring the demise of the "farmer" in this country,...in simple terms because farming will no longer be a viable enterprise and ultimately compelling everyone to consume imported foods, whether we like it or not!



This then is the brave NEW WORLD of Globalisation, and if you think that THEY cannot do this to you, think back to what George W Bush got away with ( and is still getting away with!)



Each and every person must stand up and speak out about these important issues that will effect every man, woman and child in generations to come, ensuring that the sacrifices made by our past generations have NOT been in vain!

Well unfortunately I am sorry to say they have and if we don't watch out we will regret it - not my generation - well maybe a few will hang on to get the Queen's telegram that is if there still is a Queen of Australia by 2040 when whites will be a minority and have no say at all in the country they built.



Hit the button there - globalisation is the cause of the rot we are all suffering and it all started with lowering income taxes for the top end of the scal and in this country not making those with huge salaries pay tax at source but keep 100% until the end of the year and then pay a good accountant to put in the lowest amount that thy can get away legally and sometimes not so with paying tax on but still live like Kings. USA is a lot better than we are at watching for this sort of thing and exmine the life style to see if it matches the return and if not - they go after them. Whereas we let them go for years without paying their fair share and now and then hear that the Tax Office has millions in unpaid taxes by top end of town.



Next they started to get lower company tax and the rorts that go on are endless but seemingly no cares too much - had a bit of a fix in the 70's but still a lot of evasion goes on with groups where one company charges another in the group in a way that their profits are really low and so pay very little tax in each country.



Hawke fixed up the company car advantage to the user with a tax on the company itself but that only then gets added to the input on the cost of goods and services and we pay it on consuming. It should have been put onto the income tax of the individual using the company car and that would have been fair and equitable.



So then when developed nations started to manufacture our companies like many found that by going to Asia they could have stuff made with cheap cheap labour and still ship and sell it here making a huge profit by retailing at the price it would cost if made with higher Aussie wages etc. Applies to all goods we import that used to be made here or even overseas in western countries - that is the purpose of globalization along with a global market add immigration to beef up the number of consumers and you have the mess we are in today.



Out come not enough manufacturing left here - importing too many goods that once were made here and paying for shoddy goods compared with what we once made - immigrants coming in by the thousands and increasing whilst not enough houses nor jobs nor services to accommodate them so we are all paying higher rents and house prices and waiting on lists for beds in hospitals and forget teeth getting fixed for low income earners - as this is supply being too small for the demand placed on it.



Just do not expect governments to lower the immigration as they are paid nice donations by business to do the necessary to ensure the businesses make a nice fat profit and they want immigration at any cost to us for higher profits to them. Plus there seems to be a unilateral agreement not to discuss immigration in operation and the Labour MP has had his fingers rapped for speaking out.



And who cares? No one seemingly enough to tell the prospective governments to do something and to vote out the one not doing enough instead play favourites like it is a footy team. Sad really.



Globalisation is the worst thing ever and donations to political parties has corrupted governments all over the world and here too.



Scandalous to make business pay thousands to sit down to speak to a Minister to get favours but even more so when the majority cant do the same because they don't have the money but elected the person and pay his salary and perks via their income taxes the majority of it being paid by the ordinary worker.

I couldn't agree more Val, it is quite scary to think what is down the track