Rudd v Gillard v Rudd.


4th Feb 2012
9:54am

One of the funniest comments I've seen, re the possibibility of Rudd replacing Gillard.

 

Geoff of Central Coast Posted at 8:58 AM Today

What a world class embarrassment it would be should Rudd come back as leader. Headlines could read Australian leader dumped because he was useless replaced by our first female Prime Minister who is now being dumped because she was more useless than the useless one she replaced, now being replaced by the original useless one because all else in their party are seen as more useless than the first two usless ones. Must make the Labor Ministers feel bright and special. Australia, the lucky country?

Comment 50 of 58

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innes
avater
3rd Mar 2012
8:53pm

Mussitate, you asked yesterday why it is relatively easier for a Citizen of the USA to immigrate to Australia than somebody from   say   Indonesia.  There are a number of Immigration Visas available, other than protection.  Most are broken down to a simple points score system  Most Americans of the middle & higher classes have a University degree which is acceptable & recognised in Australia.  The few Indonesions with a degree obtained in Indonesia, have no such recognition.  Skilled Migration is the easiest to get & an English ability IELTS with a result of 6 in all 4 categories is the minimum requirement.  Very difficult for Indonesians & harder for Chinese.  Holders of a legitimate Passport from the USA, Canada, The UK & Ireland automatically score the maximum points without any test.  Another point for Americans is that it it so easy to get sponsorship from one of the thousands of American Companies with branches in Australia.  The language is the biggest points earner for PR & it is now almost impossible for a score of less than 7 in all 4 categories to be successful.  We find that even highly educated Chinese with a University Master degree still need an Education Visa in order to do a concentrated English course in Australia in order to get into our Universities & get an acceptable Australian Degree to qualify for PR.

Mussitate
avater
3rd Mar 2012
10:31pm

What a shame our system is designed to exclude non westerners, it would be better for Australia if we were simply able to select the best MINDS and SKILLS without reference to nationality.  It even puts to mind that our immigration system has not progressed a long way from the 'white Australian' policy.

I sincerely thank you for the time you put in to answer my question, it is appreciated.

Ted
avater
3rd Mar 2012
11:38pm

Agree Mussitate.  And I believe Australians have become less racially tolerant over the last 15 or so years.  No emperical evidence just a feeling from atttudes expressed towards refugees and migrants from non-western countries.  One only has to read comments in newspapers, particularly texts where the author is able to use a psyeudonym, the vitriol written in some of our newspapers, or listen to comments made on radio talk-back.

4th Mar 2012
9:47am

Ted: " And I believe Australians have become less racially tolerant over the last 15 or so years.  No emperical evidence just a feeling from atttudes expressed towards refugees and migrants from non-western countries.  One only has to read comments in newspapers, particularly texts where the author is able to use a psyeudonym, the vitriol written in some of our newspapers, or listen to comments made on radio talk-back."

.................................................................................

I wonder if that's really the case , that Aussies are less tolerant...or does it appear that way, because these days the speed of communication enables us to voice views much more prolifically and more easily  than years ago.

   Or indeed if there  is less tolerance, I suspect it's borne out of a certain amount of fear and frustration brought about by the acceleration  of terrorism, especially since 9/11.

innes
avater
4th Mar 2012
1:46am

The reason that these things don't change is because the World at large accepts the Public Persona that we are not racist in Australia & that we happily accept Multi Culturism.  These things will never change while we pander to reverse racism.  I am friendly with a well qualified, intelligent half aboriginal who is furious with the white man policy of trying your damnest to make sure that the aborigines at University are never failed.  You would probably get a shock at how many beer swilling Aussies would cheer at the knowledge that illegal boats were being torpedoed.  As Mussitate said, we have not progressed far from the White Australia Policy.  An inbred attitude will never change if you deny it's very existance.  It is very convenient to ignore the fact that only once in the history of the World, has genicide been almost totally successful & that was in Tasmania.  Pol Pot was a monster, but proportionately, if not numerically, the white man in Tasmania was better at his aim.

Nautilus
avater
4th Mar 2012
3:20pm

Ted: " And I believe Australians have become less racially tolerant over the last 15 or so years."

As Ms Thatcher asked of an Australian journalist interviewer 'personality' who put forward a similarly loaded statement (posing as a question), just who are these people who say that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqKpLqMArU

Doubtless you are also addressing your 'racist' criticism at the 'white' Australians, who arguably are more ethnically/'culturally' blended than their critics and all but very few migrants.

I have had that out at length with Mussitate before and the subect thread would still exist if any are interested.  So I will keep it short and observe that the proportion of Australian households where English is not the first language is very high  This is understandable given the continually new records set in migration since WW2.  Add to that second or third generations of NESB migrants.

The record is there in the numbers from the government's own statistician too, that any increase in population -and Australia leads most of the world in population growth- is solely attributable to migration. Excluding migrants, Australia achieved and maintained zero population growth from the early Seventies and that has not changed.  In fact it is the justification used by populationists/growthists like Kevin Rudd (his 'Big Australia') for large-scale immigration.

Taking those simple, indisputable facts it is worth asking just who is responsible for your alleged 'racist' immigration policies.  It can't be the hated 'whites' now can it, because they have been substantially and irreversibly 'diversified' and quite delibetately too from the multicultural policies boasted of by the federal government.  One could argue that it is in fact the 'whites' so hated by the self-loathing Left who are now the subjects of racism.  Maybe they might think that too if you can find any who identify as 'whites' (whatever that ethnicity is) and go about lobbying for benefits on that basis.

Ted, have you ever paid a visit to the federal department administering immigration, the Deapatrtment of Immigration and Citizenship?  It might be instructive for you to do that, because its staffing certainly does not look as though any 'White Australia Policy is in vogue there as you seem to be alleging. 

So, given all of those facts, how can you explain this 'racism' against 'Asians' and 'non-Westerners' ("refugees and migrants from non-western countries").  But more to the point what about some evidence that it is all down to your hated 'whites'?

I also note the push here not for fairness and equality as such, but for equality of outcome.  Now that would require social reengineering on a grand scale and it would be immediately offensive to all cultures not just your hated and increasingly irrelevant 'whites'.

Ted
avater
5th Mar 2012
2:03pm

Let's see! I said I felt Australia was becoming less racially tolerant, said I had no emperical evidence just basing feelings on texts to newspapers by people unwilling to give their name, opinion pieces in some newspapers, and talk-back to reactionary shock-jocks. 

Don'e deny your facts on population growth.  In fact if Australia had not had migration to continue population growth the country's development would have not progressed as it has, and our standard of living would not be comparable with the best in the world. 

Did not make any allegations about any 'White Australia' policy.  Interesting that you continue with this furphy and use of the term 'hated whites.  Your use of emotive generalisations and asumptions to denegrate those with whom you disagree does at times become boring.

innes
avater
4th Mar 2012
5:02pm

I have no desire to take sides on the racism, but I will comment that the Government certainly believes in Multi Culturalism in the Immigration Dept.   I get to spend time there on a regular basis & most of the people that I deal with are of ethnic background.  Very few are Australian born.

4th Mar 2012
5:21pm

I believe that between 94 and 98% of people living in Australia either come from other countries or their ancestors do. So I guess we are a multi cultural country.

Ted
avater
5th Mar 2012
2:08pm

Very true fewd.

Well innes I reckon we are all of an ethnic background.  Mine just happens to be Irish, English, Scottish and German with a little bit of Romany.

Can't comment on the ethnic background of the Immigration Department, but I understand that to work for the Australian public service one needs to be an Australian citizen.  So does it really matter where the person was born.  These have sworn allegiance to Australia.

innes
avater
4th Mar 2012
5:29pm

I hate to poke eyes in the accepted situation, BUT if you take into account ancestry, 100% of Australians come from a foreign background.

Nautilus
avater
4th Mar 2012
8:59pm

I wonder why it is politically correct to insist that 'whites' must be diversified for their own good, yet Aborigines should be encouraged to segregate themselves and as far as possible maintain cultural purity and traditions - even down to inventing new traditions to create a bigger difference?  Imagine the screams of racism and 'white Australia' if 'whites' wanted to set up their own communities and preserve theor own cultural traditions.

No, I am not arguing for either, just observing political correctnes in action.  Nasty stuff.

Live and let live, vive la difference.  -But wait a bit, there is no guvvy $$ in that sort of equality (live and let live and no special treatment for anyone) and no careers for for a horde of bureaucrats, advocates and legal experts.

Nautilus
avater
5th Mar 2012
3:04pm

Ted, "So does it really matter where the person was born."

Taken out of context I would say no it doesn't and most people would agree with me. However it is obviously relevant where you and others allege that Australia has become more 'racist'.

Exactly who is being 'racist' in your opinion?  Because the diversity of Australian population has progressed in leaps and bounds and as already stated many Australians come from a family that is either presently or was recently non English speaking.

You obviously want to have it both ways.  You trash Australians as 'racist' and becoming more so while implying that it is your hated 'whites' who are responsible.  But when you are confronted with the simple, incontrovertible fact that those who advise and implement immigration polict are very representative of diversity by anyone's standards you then switch, insinuating that it is somehow not OK (even 'racist'?) to point that out.

Honestly, most people would see straight through you when you play the 'racism' card and rightly feel offended because you are spreading foul speculative gossip and accusations that lower Australia's standing in the world.  What do you get out of that, BTW, or are you just into stirring?  What countries can you list that have taken the massive numbers of migrants that Australia has AND has been prepared to implement the very strong policy of multiculturalism that applies in this country?

Accusing Australia of 'racism' is easy, but what about you compare our society with others and you might start with any of our Asian neighbours for a start.

Ted
avater
5th Mar 2012
3:29pm

My very simple statement was that to be a member of the Australian public service one has to be an Australian citizen.

Those who were born in a different country and were previously of a different nationality to become Australian citizens have to swear allegiance to Australia.  They are Australian citizens with the rights of all Australians whether born here or not.  That includes the right to work for the Australian public service.

Once again taking a very one simple statement out of context to push your, what appears to me, white supremist attitude.

Nautilus
avater
5th Mar 2012
4:46pm

Ted, you made a very foul generalisation about your countrymen -that you believed  Australians have become more racist over the last 15 or so years- and I challenged you to give evidence in support.  I also gave contrary evidence.

In return you abused me as a 'white supremacist'.

The mistake you make is assuming that everyone thinks like you.

Ted
avater
5th Mar 2012
6:12pm

Well Nautilus!  If you read my original post you will find that I made the statement that "in my opinion". 

I also made the statement that I did not have any emperical evidence, just an opinion I have formed from texts to newspapers where texters do not have their name published, comment in newspapers and talkback comments on radio. 

I repeat I did make the statement that it was in my opinion, based on the aforementioned and I had no emperical evidence.

I will repeat that you take one comment from a post.  Quote it out of context, distort the comment and use it to then propound your own views.

You used my statement "So does it really matter where a person was born".  If you go back and read the post you will find that I was talking about Australian citizens.  And went on to say that these people had sworn allegiance to Australia.

I have no problem with people born in other countries, who are now Australian citizens. working in the Australian public service whether it be the Immigration Department or any other department.  Some seem to have a problem with this situation. 

We have people from many ethnic backgrounds working in many occupations in Australia.  In fact Australia would not be the developed nation with one of the highest standards of living if there was not the immigration programme fostered by governments of both persuasions. 

Australia has had a diverse ethnic population since first white settlement.  During the 1800's many migrants came from Asia - consider the Chinese, Afghans, Pacific Islanders.  Middle to late 1900's many people came from middle eastern countries, and Asian and African countries.  It wasn't until relatively recently there was the outpouring of comment denegrating the arrival of NESB people.  So I ask - what is the difference in Australia's immigration policiies today with those that allowed migrants to Australia in the past?

Nautilus
avater
5th Mar 2012
8:04pm

What a load of manure.

What about answering those few simple questions?  After all, you did make those foul allegations against your fellow Australians.

And you can stick your white supremacist BS where the sun doesn't shine.

5th Mar 2012
9:36pm

so sad that the insults continue and that untrue insinuations continue.

"And you can stick your white supremacist BS where the sun doesn't shine."

Has debate on this forum decended to this pathetic level - maybe, hopefully that post will be moderated.

Nautilus
avater
5th Mar 2012
11:32pm

Yet you didn't criticise the originator. 

Typical post for you fwed.  Still trying to be the moderator.

You would be one of the most persistent offenders for being argumentative and in hijacking and derailing threads.

clay
avater
5th Mar 2012
11:49pm

If I were you fwed and I am glad that I am not ..........I would quit whilst I had a semblance of dignity left ..........and maybe Ted..........just maybe he will post sensible comments for a change

Is it possible I wonder ............

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