Is Australia a Socialist Country?
What do you think?
Have we taken our Pensions too much for granted?
Is our Health System collapsing because not enough people take out health insurance?
Couldn't have put it better. Thanks for a rational reponse.
Thanks Tanker, very good.
Having been to Norway a few times, we love it, yes things are expensive there, but their systems does work for the people, bearing in mind the population is only approx 5 m people. Their head of state is a monarch who appears popular too.
Know Norway pretty well, but I DO prefer to spend my after tax money on things I want to buy not everything free for people who might want it. Hate to lose 50% of my wages to pay for all the things I'll never need or want. Yes, their health policy is better but then again, wife and I pay $5800 a year to be fully insured here and everyone one else is free to do that as well. It is of course easier when all the costs are taken off you at taxation and you never have the money in your hand in the first place.
The thing here Mariner is that it is not everyone has $5800 a year to spend on health insurance and so they rely on the public system. Our public system is good but is financially under resourced.
If the government stopped financing the private health insurance companies and those funds put into our public system then that system would get a significant boost. However if the government did that the private system would collapse as too many people would no longer be able to afford it. The private system is struggling now. The current government are ideologically commited to private health and private education and so will continue to support both with taxpayers money.
The thing here Mariner is that it is not everyone has $5800 a year to spend on health insurance and so they rely on the public system. Our public system is good but is financially under resourced.
If the government stopped financing the private health insurance companies and those funds put into our public system then that system would get a significant boost. However if the government did that the private system would collapse as too many people would no longer be able to afford it. The private system is struggling now. The current government are ideologically commited to private health and private education and so will continue to support both with taxpayers money.
I get you, Tanker, no need to say it twice. Most people could pay for health insurance if the money would be taken out at source like in Norway (2 stubbies a day at $10 each in Norway) would easily pay for something else. I remember we had compulsory health insurance here in Oz - easy to abolish but hard to put back in. Nice to be a tourist in Norway, Sweden and Denmark, not so good as a worker.
Good response tanker, we don't want or need a right or left wing government, what we require is balanced government that puts the population first.
I believe that our country is slightly Socialist as demonstrated by our constant allusions to the fair go and backing your mates.
Just enough to make me feel comfortable.
Good comment Tanker but it will never happen with a Government that would sell their own granny if the price was right.
Whilst one can't call Australia Socialist, given the amount of private companies, we certainly do have some systems in place which could be called socialist such as universal education and healthcare. The only problem with these systems is that they have been steadily eroded. Public education is far from free and doesn't meet the needs of many schools because of underfunding. Medicare has been eroded over the years while private health insurance and hospitals continue to be subsidised, encouraging excessive fees charged by doctors and the proliferation of nonessential procdures. Public health and education should not only be retained but should be encouraged. Sadly we have privatised railways and power generation which has not been advantageous in my view. The loss of railway workshops which provided apprenticeships, for nstance, was a backward step taken to maximise profits.
Our social security system, for all its faults, is also essential and should be better funded. Whilst Americans have had it drummed into them that everyone should be self reliant, that view does not take into account that everyone does not have the same advantages, that despite the best efforts and hard work of many individuals they still live in poverty or at least never become even moderately wealthy. Capitalism promotes big business and big money, and that money is made on the backs of low taxes for businesses and low wages paid to workers. The result has been a very small percentage of people with more wealth than they could spend in a hundred lifetimes, and many people living in poverty.
Public Housing, another 'socialist' concept, should also be better funded in Australia. As property prices rise to ludicrous heights in big cities, more people are spending a huge proportion of their income on rent or becoming homeless, despite their best efforts.
Capitalism has been a failed system for most of the world. Jobs and growth have resulted in overpopulation and dependence on income from resources which are detrimental to our environment. The flag waving, fun loving crowd in the USA have been brainwashed - it staggers me that some of the most uneducated and low income people vote for Trump. Perhaps that is the aim of capitalism - keep the population living in fear of 'socialism', keep them uneducated and poor so they can't be a threat to the status quo and feed them the rubbish about their rights to bear arms and to personal liberty, regardless of the impact on others. Australia certainly doesn't want to follow that path.
We have met a number of Americans who work in 'public service' jobs-doctors working in hospitals, engineers for public amenities like water resources for cities, a chemist for the DEA - the list goes on. These intelligent and socially conscious people without exception voted Democrat. Perhaps Socialism isn't a political sytem but a mindset where people work for the betterment of society, rather than for individual greed.
Thanks Veepee you point out some valid points there.
I can relate to what you say about the American system especially chatting to US friends.
Australia is at least a semi-socialist nation. Of the Federal Government’s approximately $500 billion current budget (2019-20), approximately $300 billion or 60% is allocated to social security and welfare ($180.1 billion), health and education. So the Federal Government’s main financial focus is on social issues. We know that this year it will be vastly higher than budgeted and we will be paying off this social assistance over many years into the future. On top of this, of the States’ budgets (NSW $80 billion) expenditure on social services such as health, education public transport form the vast bulk of their budgets. So in total our taxes and governments are focussed very significantly on social services.
A Capitalist State allows business to be conducted with very little government intervention, close to a dog eats dog situation regarding takeovers and competition. The fact that Australian governments through bodies such as the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB), Treasury, ACCC, APRA, Fair Work Australia, various federal Ombudsmen, State Fair Trading agencies etc. etc frequently intervene in business affairs suggests we are not a true capitalist society. Even Australian businesses and agriculture receive their own welfare in the form of grants and loans. Unlike a true Capitalist State many businesses such as bus and railway companies, Australia Post, airports and utility companies are still owned by various levels of government.
On balance Australia is probably more a Socialist than a Capitalist nation
On the issue of private health fund, We cannot blame people by getting off the health insurance system. I am a member for 15 years and on top cover. Before I quit I am in almost 600 a month premium and I got nothing but optical and dental within which I am even paying more out of pocket than the benefits I am or should be enjoying. Aside from bigger out of pocket payment we are still paying medicare levy so why pay insurance when medicare is paying 75% and the insurance just refunding 25%? It is not very wise paractically speaking. You only get a bit of a better bed (but not all the time)when you are hospitalized. Besides the public hospital have better machines to help the doctors as well as patient. Private health funds increase every year for nothing. Others who they paid big benefits were being paid by other member who are not even spending more than a thousand each year on benefits but they are paying thousands of dollars on premiums. My question is, Is it worth staying insured when you are not getting what your money's worth?
You are not alone in your thinking,, we sat down and went through everything we.were getting on top cover and what we were paying in gap payments. We decided that top cover did not represent value for money and have reduced our policy to hospital cover only.
Yes husband reduced ours from the top cover, but now we do still get the ancilliary; for instance physio therapy a visit is $80 I end up paying $13 a visit and the insurance pays the difference. Also we are covered for Dental also Chiropodist visits also glasses and dietitian.
ELAJ 711 thanks for your comment. My hubby and I spend about $400 per month for private health cover. We continually wonder whether this cost is worth it. The only thing we ever claim on is teeth and optical because we are both pretty healthy in our 70's. We have been wondering whether to drop out. A friend of ours had private health insurance for years but when she got cancer all of her treatment was covered by public funding. At no stage did she pay anything for the top treatment she got. We are wondering if having private health cover is worth the cost.
Interesting Ny19, some five years ago husband had a Laminectomy, we found that surgeon charged a lot; I went a month ago to see him for my facet joint issues, he charges $900 per hour! I spent 25 minutes with him, not including the time spent with the secretary making the appointment for the injection the next day.
We got back just under $200! Like you our monthly premium is $400.
We get a private room when in hospital too. There is no waiting list for treatment untill now with the coronvirus situation.
However, we have found there are specialists and specialists, I was in hospital in January and the outlay was $200, the surgeon didn't charge he bulk billed, he is probably the stop surgeon in his field in WA. Then husband was in for pathology tests in a private hospital in Nedlands about 8 weeks ago having samples taken from his spine, day proceedure.
He has seen that same hematologist several times and has not paid a cent, he bulk billed! Also the same private hospital husband was in having chemo for five days he didn't pay a cent, the insurance paid for that.
I guess what I am saying is do the homework. See which hospital is the best and which Specialist charges, especially if we are over 70. Both of us are in our 70s also like you.
I wonder why some people have to pay for their treatment and others don't regardless of whether they are in a private health fund or not?
It depends on the Health Insurance company I guess and the Specialist you use.
We have been with this Health insurance for over 30 years Ny19.
And do you think your private health insurance has been worth the cost Celia? How have you benefitted?
Retiring Well still spouting his right wing views as usual and as always incorrect. An example of a country he would class as Soclialist would be Norway. There they have a very comprehensive social welfare system with free education, free health care etc. They do have high taxes but that is to pay for their social welfare. A large part of the high taxes is their levies on their resources, i.e. oil. They are a very wealthy country and despite Trump's yearning for Norwegian to migrate to the U.S. he is whistling in the wind.
We have been giving away our resources and even giving mining special prices on diesel to reduce their costs. Really!
China is no longer Communist, even if they try to use that label. They encourage their people to get out there and make money as long as they don't critise the government. North Korea is a totalitarian dictatorship pure and simple. Russia is definitely not communist altho' there appears to be some superficial traits there but that might be to keep the masses under control. Putin has a tight grip on the country and their mafia is flourishing.
Neither pure Commuism or Socialism will work but neither does unrestrained Capitalism and seeing what is happening in the U.S. proves that. It really needs a hybrid system of social justice across all parts of the community combined with the freedom for businesses to flourish provided they operate with the good of the community in mind. A fiar equitable tax system is fundamental to that.
In Australia we have reached that point as evidenced by the inequality that exists here. A good example of this is the belief that trickle down economics works fairly.
The U.K. system as currently practiced is broken with the NHS in England starved for funds and in diabolical stife.