"The world is never black and white, as some simple folks want it to be. Several of these simple folk have posted above, without being willing to comment on Cuba's very successful health and education regimes."

"Regimes?" - yes! now you're seeing the light. Very apt word for Castro's ruling on all aspects of existence in Cuba.

In order to subjugate the miserable poor in Cuba Castro used "regimes" to force people to toe the line. In normal democracies, they are called "health and education" programs NOT "regimes."

@ Barak, what a simple, simple comment from a very simple simple guy.

Banjo thanks mate for your input on this.

There is no useful content at all in either of those past two posts. You two are acting as both pure victims of and subsequent deliverers of US propoaganda on this.

Ray, in particular, when you are really lost for useful comment, you make the same allegations about an opponent as the facts that they have pointed out about your comments (or in this case, your friend's). It's pathetic. And shallow. And thoughtless. Just barracking. It adds nothing to the discussion.

Banjo, you must have thought it SO clever to copy my formatting, the point of which was that I was quoting myself from earlier in the thread, something you had simply ignored. You don't discuss, you declare. You simply KNOW Castro was ALL evil, don't you? Not a skerrick of good anywhere. It's a stupid position. It cannot be true. It makes you look like a brainwashed idiot. And you an academic? ROTFLMAO.

Is it too late in your lives to realise that the world is not purely black and white?

You are an interesting character Barak.  Are you just attempting to have a lend of us, or, do you actually support the memory of a ruthles, Communist Dictatorial, murdering thug, who killed over 140,000 of his fellow citizens in 1987 alone?

Just to be precise and also after confirming it with other sources Rummels estimate of up to 140,000 was for the total number and inclusive  number up to 1987 and not for 1987 alone. 

COM.TAB1.GIF 360×579 pixels

  http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.TAB1.GIF

Sorry Vivity.  My mistake.  If he only killed 140,000 over a number of years, that is not a problem.  Nothing to get critical about.  Whats 140,000 out of a population of 7 million.  Hitler was already dead, so, he would not have been jealous.

Gentle sarcasm Innes? Deaths under any regime are a problem but the highest deaths after Castro took over in any one year appears to have occurred in 1957 (35,000) ousting The dictator Batista. 

I certainly can remember the Bay of Pigs during those events England was very tense, as I saw you say elsewhere Kruchev (and JFK)  were very active in preventing nuclear war, diplomacy won that crisis, thank god. 

Quote: Just to be precise and also after confirming it with other sources 

There is nothing "precise" about your gif source, utter rubbish, provide those sources you have "confirmed the figure with. Wiki doesn't count nor do gifs

He murdered thousands upon thousands. The late R.J. Rummel, a University of Hawaii professor who tracked mass-killings by governments around the world, estimated 140,000 were murdered by the Castro regime. And that was  just through 1987. Since then, of course, thousands more

hhttp://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/the-fidel-castro-myth-debunked-the-death-of-a-tyrant-not-a-hero/ave been killed.

hhttp://www.therealcuba.com/ttp://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm

You say you remember the Bay of Pigs while sitting in your armchair in England. Have you been to Cuba to see how the people have treated????? Have you been to Miami and other places where Cubans have fled??

You have NO argument. Anyone can watch TV, anyone can read a paper but until you have witnessed events, you have no facts. If you haven't got sources to post Vivity, please do not produce arguments or you end up looking like a fool.

I repeat Castro was a murderer and I feel pity for those who support him, yes he did lift the devastated poor up a little by means of education, but health is still very bad in Cuba.

Cubans rejoicing his death in Miami

Castro and his henchman Che Guevara are responsible for this:Thousands of Cubans have died in front of Castro’s infamous ‘paredón’ (the wall). There was no discrimination, as far as sending people to the firing squad was concerned. Young and old, black and white, rich and poor were sent to ‘el paredón’.

Many of those who helped Castro gain power, like Comandantes Ernesto Sori Marin and William Morgan, an American, were among the thousands who were shot.

Those are the FACTS not some silly little gif.

As for you Barak you look like such a complete fool, no point in even answering you. You support a tyrant, a murderer and a depraved human being, I don't need to say more.

You have produced NOTHING of substance as is usually the case with you yet you argue until blue in the face. Not worth a reply.

Banjo - what is Wiki?

I'm guessing you mean Wikipedia.

Any academic would know that there are many wiki's, and the only sensible way to refer to Wikipedia is by its full name. Sometimes your facade slips.

Given the obvious FACT, that became apparent towards the end of the US election, that many media outlets and governments routinely tell lies, how can you be so certain about your facts on Fidel?

Forget about the "academic", a ten year old would know there are many types of Wiki.

In this case, doubt whether anyone else but you would think any of the others fitted the context we are discussing. Sorry won't comment further because your "facts" somehow get mixed up with your fantasies. 

YOU were clearly the mixed up one. Now you're doing just what Ray does whenever he loses an argument. Accusing the opponent of doing the same stupid thing you have done.

The clone wars are on again, methinks.

 

toot - Thanks for putting up that photo. . I looked up that site about the extravagant life of Castro. It's the same with all Dictators, they make the poor people poorer and they live the high life. 

A friend of mine went to Cuba about 12 years ago and said he was disgusted with the poverty he saw. 

Santiago de Cuba right now - don't paint a picture of Cuba that doesn't exist.

Ray, nobody is painting a false picture, except those black and white haters who say ALL was bad under Castro. 

We have some here saying there was some good and some bad, and you and your friends saying it was all bad, and accusing others of saying it was all good.

You and your friends look silly.

I wish you'd keep your mouth closed some of the time Barak, each time you open it you reinforce what we already know, that is, your "arguments" come from lack of knowledge, lack of having visited places in question, just lack in general and no substance. Sure the poor in Cuba were given basic health care and education, those are the things necessary for the poor to work for peanuts (and they did) in order to support the elite. Castro was no fool, he thought of the best way to line the pockets of the rich through exploiting his own people.

An example a poor person educated speaking several languages works for the government translating and earns $20 American a month. I know this because this woman is related to a colleague of mine. Stop arguing Barak, you are really showing your ignorance, please do some background work before you open your mouth.

Havana  is a crumbling mess for the most part, people still have food cards, people can't improve where they live, they can't afford to even buy paint. It was only since 2013 people wre even allowed to buy a car which was not one that existed before the revolution. Progress my behind. Get your socialist head out of the sand and face facts. But guess what, now that they are allowed, they have no money to buy.

Now you're agreeing with me Ray. It WAS NOT all bad under Castro.

Your "excuses" for the good health and education systems don't stand up to rational thinking.

Take off the tunnel vision glasses.

And do stop misrepresenting me. It's the strategy of someone with no argument.

Ray and Banjo you should know by now

           

Cheers guys

Ah, so the "Friends" script said it was time for Micha to turn up and barrack.

How pointless. 

It's incredible that a group of old folks who randomly come together on a forum should have such identical views. Do you guys disagree on anything?

We are all "Conservative" and "Catholic" except for Micha who is Jewish and it may seem very strange to you but people of a like mind do flock together. Like we flock with the laughter brigade on YLC, all like minded. Yep people of like mind do have the same views many of them identical even though they are separate human beings. Try it sometime if you find anyone except for the ilks to barrack for you.

But what was the point of Micha's post?

And again, do you guys disagree on anything?

Ray, congratulations on your excellent portrayal of the Castro, the ostrich in the sand socialists think was so great. 

And Micha, best laugh of the day!

No content. Just barracking.

Clones again?

Pointless, off-topic, irrelevant post.

That is some innovative thinking Innes, we need examples like that to bring home the fact Castro was a murdering dictator no different from other ruthless ones and to show others their argument is fruitless in the light of facts unearthed about this fraud.

Banjo, precisely what IS the argument of those others? (The ones with whom you think you are disagreeing.)

I'm actually in agreement with several of the things innes, Ray and you are saying. You seem to be arguing against something else.

I am not arguing, I am presenting facts which you do not seem to understand. I have visited Cuba for work, before the revolution and years later after the revolution.

I do know what I'm talking about and whatever I write on here Barak is not for your benefit, don't think that at all. You can learn something though if you open up your mind.

Are we finally getting through to you then???

Nope.

Still misrepresenting my positiion. I'll report that behaviour if it continues.

Did you major in straw man arguments at uni?

 

Spot on Innes and perhaps Barak would like to know that right now in Cuba just 5% of Cubans have Internet access, BUT, 23% can access the government-sanctioned Intranet. 

This is a country where almost nothing has changed for generations. Yes doctors are trained for free and there are (don't quote me on this figure) 76,000 doctors for 11 million people. As Ray mentioned above, the salaries for highly skilled and professional people is less than what we spend at the supermarket a week.

Big improvement, doctors used to get $26A a month, but hey, now they've had an increase they get $67A a month!!!

PS Barak: if you can't take the heat on a political thread, maybe this kitchen is not for you if you have to keep reporting all and sundry.

 

Barak, did you, or did you not say:-   " Several of these simple folk have posted above, without being willing to comment on Cuba's very successful health and education regimes."

That's partly what I said. Now, discuss my WHOLE post.

hahahaha - what happened to the rest of your quote?? " Several of these simple folk have posted above, without being willing to comment on Cuba's very successful health and education regimes."

Innes, Ray, I think the eagle has landed! Methinks Barak has found out these "simple" folk are not that "simple" after all :)))))

Not at all.

I DID get you to comment on health and education, so I no longer have to chase you up on that omission. But you still seem to see the whole world in black and white.

Sorry to tell you this, but there are very few people who are entirely good or entirely bad.

Geoff, perhaps Bush WAS a monster.  Maybe Castro was or wasn't.  However, as Barak likes to point out over & over, Castro is the subject, not Bush.

So some coyotes think Castro was a saint huh? Ok allow me to put you right.

Fidel Castro jailed and tortured political prisoners at a higher rate than Stalin during what is known as the Great Terror. He murdered more Cubans in his first three years in power than Hitler murdered Germans during his first six. Good man huh?

Fidel Castro took a highly-civilized nation that had a higher standard of living than much of Europe, turned Cuba into a slum/sewer ravaged by tropical diseases and with  the highest suicide rate in the Western hemisphere. Good man huh?

At the last count Castro killed and tortured almost 100,000 Cubans. Among them 5,300 are known to have lost their lives fighting communism in the Escambray Mountains (mostly peasant farmers and their children) and at the Bay of Pigs. An estimated 14,000 Cubans were killed in Fidel's revolutionary adventures abroad, most notably his dispatch of 50,000 soldiers to Angola in the 1980s to help the Soviet-backed regime fight off the Unita insurgency. Good man huh??

Fidel Castro helped train and fund practically every terror group on earth, from the Weathermen to Puerto Rico’s Macheteros, from Argentina’s Montoneros, to Colombia’s FARC, from the Black Panthers to the IRA and from the PLO to AL Fatah. Yeah a very good man.

above written by Humberto Fontova

Humberto Fontova was born in Havana, Cuba. He and his family of 5 attempted to leave in 1961, but only 4 of them were successful. He grew up in New Orleans, graduated from the University of New Orleans with a degree in Political Science, and holds a Masters Degree from Tulane University in Latin American Studies. He has authored several books and has appeared on several TV outlets. Humberto and his family are among the tens of thousands who suffered at the hands of Castro.

So Barak for the sake of humanity shutupfora  day if you don’t know anything. you have what we call coyote thinking.

Hiker, absolutely nobody here has suggested Castro was a saint.

What a waste of a post.

@ Hiker

Thank you for your great post, Ray, Innes and I have been trying to get through to this person, hard work, but worth the effort.

We made it! 

Banjo - what ARE you talking about?

What have you made? A cake?

If you're talking about me, my position has not changed at all since this thread began. Nor, apparently, has the position of the idiots who keep misrepresenting that position.

You remind me of my late Grandma Barak, she always had to have the last word. 

Correction: we have not fully "made it" you are not completely out from behind the brick wall only your hand has "made it" out

hopefully the body will follow soon, then when the head does, we shall have the silly cake, hahahaha

Back to you now for the last word!

I am not the topic.