The Meeting Place

Who is wrong?

Luke Foley has had to resign as Opposition leader in NSW because of an alleged indiscretion at a function where alcohol was served. Depending on where your politics lie, blame has been put all over the place.

Who should shoulder the blame?

The person alleged to have placed hands into another's underpants?

The person whose underpants were invaded and only asked for a transfer in her job?

The employer of the person whose underpants were invaded who were made aware of the allegation and said nothing?

The person who made the allegation under Parliamentary privilege?

The person who served the alleged perpetrator who, it was alleged, had too much to drink?

11 comments

No one 

Luke's just being an Aussie larrakin

No harm done 

If true, Foley is sadly missing the early re-education in civilised conduct that such grubs received FOC from other males years ago.

"Who is wrong"???

well the hand belonged to Foley, unless he was using a sex robot at the time!

There is no blame but certainly some wrongs have occurred. Elliot was wrong for disclosing the woman’s confidentiality under parliamentary privilege. He should be sacked for that. If Foley did what is alleged that was very wrong and he deserves the loss of his career. We all know he is unlikely to be the only politician to behave so badly and hopefully more will be exposed by their “victims” in the future because that sort of behaviour has to stop.

Having said all of that, I am curious about a few things. Why did the woman demand Foley resign? If that had happened to me I would have asked for a public apology once it became news, not a resignation. It brings me to wonder if she had an agenda. Also, being a woman, I know I would not have stood still long enough to give a man time to get his hand under my dress, and down my underpants to cup my buttock. That is not an easy thing to do quickly, especially when drunk. I think most women would jump back out of the way as soon as they felt a hand go under or inside their dress. I have asked a lot of my female friends what they would do and they all said they would jump out of the way immediately. I’m not saying it didn’t happen and I guess it is possible to freeze long enough for the hand to get into the underpants but I doubt it is how most women would react.

I guess it comes down to who do you choose to believe and I will not take sides at this stage. Elliot’s guilt is very clear though, we were all witnesses to his unethical misdemeanour and Gladys Berejiklian is very weak for not taking action to discipline and sack him.

Just to enlighten you Robi, the victim was not named in the parliament; it was a broad accusation about drunken behaviour. Your suggestion that more politicians will do something similar is without foundation.

The victim didn't want to do anything about the alleged incident which happened nearly 2 years ago, she merely asked her employer to transfer her out of the parliament. Apparently Foley rang and apologised to the victim after the alleged incident was made public and stated that he would resign. He then rang back and told her that he had legal advice that meant he would stay as opposition leader. In the meantime, Labor was holding an enquiry where the victim told her version of the incident. At no stage did the victim ask for anybody to resign, she merely told the truth as she recalled it.

The victim was wearing slacks so that a wandering hand could have gone straight down without her being immediately aware. Interestingly you have chosen to firstly blame the whistleblower and lastly blame the victim. Now an innocent party to all of this, the Premier, is being accused of being weak because she supports a whistleblower. Incidentally, Labor colleagues were aware of the incident and chose to do nothing which is almost the same as covering it up.

Old Man, she was wearing a dress. This is copied from her own statement:

He put his hand through a gap in the back of my dress and inside my underpants. He rested his hand on my buttocks“.

But even if she had been wearing slacks the same principle exists. Most women would react immediately and move away the minute they felt a hand go where it shouldn’t. They wouldn’t wait for that hand to then find its way into their underpants and rest on their buttocks. I have not said though that it is impossible - it is feasible that some women might freeze but I think most wouldn’t. Most of us respond instinctively when we feel our space is invaded and when there is a threatening sexual component to that the instinct to remove immediately away from the threat would be very strong. 

David Elliot did not name her but he exposed the fact that something had occurred between Luke Foley and an ABC journalist. Ashleigh Raper had avoided exposure, did not want exposure and Elliott and Abetz did not respect her right to privacy and self-determination. They knew the media would run with it and they put their political “kill” instincts above Ashleigh’s rights. They are both political creeps, yuks, disgusting men! They knew they were planting a toxic seed that would explode into further growth. And there is another important unanswered question: How did they find out when Ashleigh Raper said she told no-one and the one witness said he told no-one? Dirt gathering appears to be a favourite pastime of politicians. 




Thanks Robi, I see you have added another whistleblower in the blame game as well as confirming that it was the victim's fault that there is the allegation against Foley. The whistleblowers are "both political creeps, yuks, disgusting men!" yet the person alleged to have done what I would describe as the work of a creep, a disgusting man doesn't even get onto your radar. Remember, it was Labor which initiated the enquiry, nobody else, and it was Labor that caused the details to become public. Methinks you are trying to defend the indefensible.

I have already stated above  “If Foley did what is alleged that was very wrong and he deserves the loss of his career.”

Seems to be no point in stating my views further Old Man because you misinterpret and twist my words.

 

The behaviour former NSW Labor leader Luke Foley has been accused of "can't be tolerated", federal Labor leader Bill Shorten has declared.

"Modern politics is not some sort of episode of the 1960s Mad Men series. The world has moved on. That behaviour was never appropriate," Mr Shorten told reporters in Perth on Friday.



 

                  STATEMENT FROM ASHLEIGH RAPER


This is a position I never wanted to be in and a statement I never intended to make. (Well..I am sorry Ashleigh..but unless women come out and tell their stories.. other female victims will not be helped. If you never wanted to be in this position..you should have told absolutely no one).

But I think the time has come for my voice to be heard, for the following reasons: (Thank you)

The escalation of the public debate, including in state and federal parliament, despite my expressed wish to neither comment nor complain, and the likelihood of ongoing media and political interest.

Two recent phone conversations with the Leader of the New South Wales Opposition Luke Foley.

To set the record straight.

In November 2016 I attended an official Christmas function at New South Wales Parliament House for state political reporters, politicians and their staff.

This is what happened on that night.

The party moved from Parliament House to Martin Place Bar after a number of hours.

Later in the evening, Luke Foley approached a group of people, including me, to say goodnight.

He stood next to me.

He put his hand through a gap in the back of my dress and inside my underpants.

He rested his hand on my buttocks.

I completely froze. ( I completely understand that..most women would "freeze" especially if they are in a group).

This was witnessed by Sean Nicholls, who was then the state political editor at the Sydney Morning Herald and is now an ABC journalist.

Mr Foley then left the bar.

Sean and I discussed what happened.

As shaken as I was, I decided not to take any action and asked Sean to keep the events in the strictest confidence.

He has honoured that. (Good on Sean)

I chose not to make a complaint for a number of reasons.

It is clear to me that a woman who is the subject of such behaviour is often the person who suffers once a complaint is made. (This has to stop..women have a right to speak up without the fear of  retribution).

I cherished my position as a state political reporter and feared that would be lost. (I am disgusted that women should be made to feel this way in 2018)

I also feared the negative impact the publicity could have on me personally and on my young family. (Understandable..but if you have a daughter..your actions help protect her future).

This impact is now being felt profoundly.

When a reporter contacted me earlier this year after hearing about the incident, I informed ABC news management about Mr Foley's actions.

I told them I didn't wish to make a complaint or for any further action to be taken.

They respected my request for privacy and have offered me nothing but their absolute care and support. (Thank you ABC).

David Elliott raised the matter in the New South Wales Parliament last month, putting the incident in the public domain.

The matter then became a state and federal political issue and resulted in intense media attention.

This occurred without my involvement or consent.

Last Sunday (4 November) Luke Foley called me on my mobile phone and we had a conversation that lasted 19 minutes.

He said he was sorry and that he was full of remorse for his behaviour towards me at the Press Gallery Christmas function in November 2016. (Now why should he be "full of remorse" if he did not disrespect you? He is guilty as hell!).

He told me that he had wanted to talk to me about that night on many occasions over the past two years because, while he was drunk and couldn't remember all the details of the night, he knew he did something to offend me. (A despicable excuse and a drunken politician..we've seen too many of those).

He apologised again and told me, "I'm not a philanderer, I'm not a groper, I'm just a drunk idiot". (Yes a drunk idiot who deserves what he gets).

He said he would be resigning as the leader of the New South Wales Labor Party on either the next day (Monday, 5 November) or Wednesday (7 November). (Goodo!)

He said he couldn't resign on the Tuesday because it was Melbourne Cup Day and he didn't want to be accused of burying the story.

On Tuesday (6 November) Mr Foley called me again.

He repeated his apology and told me he owed me "a lot of contrition". (Yes..again another admission of guilt).

He informed me he'd received legal advice not to resign as Opposition Leader. (Bad advice..glad he didn't take it).

He indicated he intended to follow that advice.

There are three things I want to come from my decision to make this statement.

First, women should be able to go about their professional lives and socialise without being subject to this sort of behaviour. (Bravo!)

And I want it to stop.(Again.. bravo!).

Second, situations like mine should not be discussed in parliament for the sake of political point scoring. (I agree if that is absolutely the case..but selfishly I am glad that on this occasion it was).

And I want it to stop.

Third, I want to get on with my life.

I do not wish to make any further comment.



Thank you for that Sophie. The only "wronged" person I see in this whole scenario is Ashleigh Raper and hopefully we shall see the end of Foley for ever more.

Talking about buttocks!   

Have you noticed how many times one sees ill fitting slacks/jeans on both men and women and when they bend down to do

something half their bottom is exposed.      It happened in Woolworths the other day when a woman had to get something out of the supervisors cuboard so she had to bend down on her knees. [people were lining up waiting to be seen at the service desk]

Then when tradesmen come the same thing happens, why don't people purchase clothing that fits and not a size/number.     They don't think about the need to try on a pair of trousers/jeans before they buy them and then sit in them to see how much room there is.

It appears people just find a number/size that they say is 'their' size and buy it.  

Each clothing manufacturer seems to delight in not have a normal 'size'  buy a 14 in one make and it is a 18 in another!

Oh for goodness sake hold your tongue Celia .. what nonsense..have you read the topic??

What has that got to do with Luke Foley and his bad behaviour towards Ashleigh Raper!!!!!

Why are you making a mockery of such a serious situation?



Yes Celia . Used to be only fat men but now see it a lot on women too

perhaps the lady whose buttocks were cupped was wearing pants that exposed her buttocks making it easy for Foley to do the deed 

what a load of twaddle of nothing,    yes, CELIA,   it is not a pretty sight,  but it seems to be fashionable among all age groups,    i had tradesmen in the house a couple of weeks ago,   and certainly saw more ;bum cracks;  than i needed,  

Yes it is serious to have your buttocks cupped against your will and should in no way be remotely tolerated in any circumstance and would be degrading in the extreme. However with consent it throws a new light on things . You see I was buttock cupped  a few years ago by a female chinese alternative medicine practitioner who placed heated glass cups on that area and with suction it was supposed to draw out toxins from the body!  It could have been mumbo jumbo I realise now because it left bruises the size of cricket balls there! Apparently that practice has been going on for centuries. Not recommending it!  cats lol you saw more bum cracks than you needed!!! Just how many do you need to see??? 1or2 enough?

Shame on you sageman 

this a serious topic and you making a mockery of such a serious situation

you're almost as bad as Celia 

My son was talked into having some cupping done on his back due to a bad strain. When he got home he showed me his back, I had to laugh because he looked like he had been attacked by a giant octopus. He still had the back pain and the bruises lasted a week. 

I cannot see the point of exposing the posterior!   

I think it has more to do with people not wanting to admit to themselves they are wearing the wrong size jeans.

Hola I have heard of that type of massage, it sounds rather dangerous especially if there

are spinal issues in that area where it is being done, the suction has to be rather severe.

Would your son have it done again?

SAGEMAN,   you,  of all people should have known that ;CUPPING '   of the buttocks doesnt work,   [not for that complaint, anyway]    and im so sorry you got those big balls left on you,   must have been very painful,   only one way to rid the body of toxins,   and that is to sweat them out,  some VERY vigorous  exercise will do it,    FIRST thing in the morning,  then again before you go top sleep,      keep that body moving,   and the toxins,  and anything else you have stored up,  will go,   trust me,   [i used to be a doctor,    i know these things]           as for the cracked buttocks,    depends how old they are,    

With all due respect to Celia whose posts I appreciate That's an honour!!!

Nice to see the ABC outing one of their own for a change.  Could this be the start of some kind of impartiality that we keep hearing about? Although the ABC did proudly claim the scalp of Kevin Rudd. Rudd 007 that is, not the second coming of Labor's last messiah of course.

The news is vastly different from what it once was. :( 

 

Best stick to the commercial channels who just make up the news to either suit people  like you or their sponsers.

If you favour the commercial channels, it is obvious you don't care about bias or factual news.

exPS, what do you mean by "people like you"?

Adrianus..

It is getting more and more difficult understanding what you write.

Whom has the ABC "outed?" 

People who would much prefer to win an arguement than be right.  People who let personal beliefs colour their interpretation of facts.  People who don't like the mesage so they try to shoot the messenger.  Not every one who dissagrees with you or your point of view is a LEFTY, if you looked into the actual complaints about bias against the ABC you would find it is about 55-50 concerning political bias.  To me that indicates that it has it right.

Are you really trying to state that commercial channels are more acurate than the ABC and SBS?  

As the ABC quoted a person, I can't see how it could be biased either way.  As it was a statement made to a reporter by the individual concerned, how can it be outing?  Isn't a public anouncement fair game for anyone who wants to quote it?

All lost on me, I was just pointing to the likely ABC report.

Lost on me too, I was obviously trying to respond to another thread and got turned around.

 Didn’t know Foley worked for the ABC, how could he be  “one of their own? Last I heard he was picking up trash, LOL

Image result for luke foley picking up trash

11 comments